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God should have a place in science teaching - head
11:27am Thursday 7th June 2007
A LEADING Bolton teacher says Creationism has a place in science and should be taught alongside evolution.
Philip Williamson, head of Canon Slade Church of England school, believes the theory, which suggests humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe were created by God, would be a useful topic for discussion in science lessons.
He said the theory of evolution as put forward by Charles Darwin was not fact and was instead a model which best explained the current scientific evidence.
Mr Williamson welcomed comments by The Rev Jan Ainsworth, a former church curate for the parish of East Farnworth and Kearsley, who said intelligent design, which argues that God, as opposed to evolution, is the creator of life, could be debated in science classes.
Intelligent design - also known as neo-Creationism - contends that the complex features and characteristics of living things are better explained as having had an intelligent origin rather than being a product of the processes of evolution and natural selection.
The Rev Ainsworth, who is now the Church of England's new head of education, said in an interview with the Times Education Supplement: "You would get howls of protest from the scientific community, but you could do (teach) it in history of science."
Mr Williamson argued that it was important to present young people with all of the theories alongside each other.
He said: "This school firmly believes that God is the maker and creator, but church schools are not in the process of indoctrinating children.
"In teaching evolution and scientific theories we put it in the context that they are not fact. They are the models that best fit with the evidence available now. Scientific theories of the past have been superseded by more recent evidence."
Mr Williamson believes children should be allowed to reach their own interpretations to help them on their "spiritual journey".
He argued that discussing both Biblical and scientific interpretations of the creation of life would enable young people to be more informed. "It would be arrogant to teach just one interpretation," he said.
A spokesman for the Church of England said: "The Rev Jan Ainsworth was representing the fact that some schools currently discuss intelligent design within the context of lessons exploring how our understanding of science has developed historically.
"She was not suggesting that intelligent design should be taught as a scientifically-based theory, but merely stating that some schools do include the topic on their history of science curriculum, and she does not propose to prevent them from doing so."
Your Say Yourtheboltonnews
harry, bolton says...
12:26pm Thu 7 Jun 07
OldBoltonian, says...
12:34pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Pilkijam, Bolton says...
12:40pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Tommy, says...
12:57pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Science is all about fact and evolution is PROVEN fact.
If someone had concrete evidence that god created it all, then I might be swayed, but for now lets just stick with the non-wacko stuff.
I'm sorry, this just **** me and im sure a lot of other people off how much bullhonky comes with religion.
I could go on for ages about this, but I won't waste my energy.
Sun Tzu, Bolton says...
1:07pm Thu 7 Jun 07
As part of the subject history, the effects and thinking behind actions taken in the name of various religions should be taught. It should be taught in a factual and unbiased way.
What should not be taught in our schools is theology of any kind. If a person wishes to learn more about religious theory they should go to a place of worship.
Chris Fogarty, Ireland says...
1:08pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Teaching creationism in schools would send out a message that those who don't subscribe to this faith are wrong.
This, above all, is why it's a bad idea.
Andy Jones, Bolton says...
1:10pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Ian, Bolton says...
1:10pm Thu 7 Jun 07
markyv, London says...
1:17pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Creationism (or intelligent design) was taught at Canon Slade as far back as 1993 when I was there. However, it was taught in Religious Studies (which was compulsory at the school to GCSE) and was taught exceptionally well, with pupils encouraged to debate the arguments for and against. It should be noted that these lessons also taught about Judaism, Islam and Atheism.
What should never happen is that Science lessons are devalued with religious debate. Wile you can argue for intelligent design, you can not argue against scientific evidence with regard to the age on the planet and the age of fossils. What started it all (the big bang) can be happily debated, but facts can not be ignored.
Any modern school (C of E or not), should see the value in debating religious beliefs and faiths, but the teachings of such should also be debated in the wider context of social and scientific development at the time. I consider myself a Christian, as a guide to living a life balanced with those around me. However, in this modern age, we need to all accept that while the Bible is an important historic document, written when peoples' understanding was much more simple, as a way of conveying a message, the literal belief in it (or any other historic religious writings) word for word is dangerous and can only further divide society and feed intolerance of other beliefs.
T. Leicht, USA says...
1:23pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Give me a break, indoctrinating children is their ultimate/only goal!! By cofusing them with bogus and unsubstantiated "facts" they help to ensure that when these children become adults the church's membership and cash flow will continue.
Strick, Bolton says...
1:40pm Thu 7 Jun 07
berushka, europe says...
2:03pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Tommy, says...
2:34pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Chris Fogarty wrote:I like to agree with that. Creationalism is about god and thus falls into the RE category of things.
Creationism and Intelligent design subscribes to one faith in particular.
Teaching creationism in schools would send out a message that those who don't subscribe to this faith are wrong.
This, above all, is why it's a bad idea.
Kids of other faiths who wish to follow a career in science would surely be put off the field simply because they may wish not to attend such lessons. Underneath all this is a bubbling pot of discrimination waiting to be uncovered.
Man I really wish people didn't let religion dictate their lives.
trevor, bolton says...
2:54pm Thu 7 Jun 07
David, Sharples says...
3:24pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Badger, Bolton says...
7:27pm Thu 7 Jun 07
C of E, stop telling the world that yours is the only true religion and your idol is the real creator.
Sorry this is a nonsense! The CofE is one of the most open minded Christian Sects and one of the few which does not insist on dismissing the theory of evolution. As for other comments here based around the word 'indoctrination'. This is an oft times simplistic quote from non-believers aimed at any and all religious faiths. What it fails to consider is that all societies teach children from a context within their perceived environment so an atheist could just as easily be said to be indoctrinating children with their beliefs no less. Naturally we all try to teach our children the best we can from our own conception of the world but some choose to see only the mot in the eye of others.
I am a Christian and I also believe in the theory of evolution although, as others have pointed out here, it is still called a theory and not a law for the simple fact that it does not explain all the given evidence. Whilst I do agree that its the most likely to prove correct in the long term (naturally with a few amendments as it is fine tuned to explain the anomalies) it does make me smile to see people pouring scorn on others for a religious belief on the grounds that 'its not proved' when most of them hold the same faith in science without understanding the concepts involved but simply by blind belief, the very thing they are pouring scorn on as they see it.
As for telling people that yours is the only true religion, what do you expect of any monotheistic faith?
Badger, Bolton says...
7:27pm Thu 7 Jun 07
C of E, stop telling the world that yours is the only true religion and your idol is the real creator.
Sorry this is a nonsense! The CofE is one of the most open minded Christian Sects and one of the few which does not insist on dismissing the theory of evolution. As for other comments here based around the word 'indoctrination'. This is an oft times simplistic quote from non-believers aimed at any and all religious faiths. What it fails to consider is that all societies teach children from a context within their perceived environment so an atheist could just as easily be said to be indoctrinating children with their beliefs no less. Naturally we all try to teach our children the best we can from our own conception of the world but some choose to see only the mot in the eye of others.
I am a Christian and I also believe in the theory of evolution although, as others have pointed out here, it is still called a theory and not a law for the simple fact that it does not explain all the given evidence. Whilst I do agree that its the most likely to prove correct in the long term (naturally with a few amendments as it is fine tuned to explain the anomalies) it does make me smile to see people pouring scorn on others for a religious belief on the grounds that 'its not proved' when most of them hold the same faith in science without understanding the concepts involved but simply by blind belief, the very thing they are pouring scorn on as they see it.
As for telling people that yours is the only true religion, what do you expect of any monotheistic faith?
cottontown, Bolton says...
8:06pm Thu 7 Jun 07
I hope there are enough of his pupils' parents to help him reassess his ideas before he attempts to warp their children's minds. I assume they have not all been brainwashed too.
Tony Chapman, Lostock says...
10:26pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Measurement/scientif
ic experiment or belief/the bible?
jeff, bolton says...
10:49pm Thu 7 Jun 07
berushka, europe says...
4:52am Fri 8 Jun 07
berushka, europe says...
5:57am Fri 8 Jun 07
finally, thank god I am an athiest!
JoeU, Winnipeg MB Canada says...
8:47am Fri 8 Jun 07
I agree.
Science used to be the search for truth.
In Scripture, God tells us:
Isaiah 45:12
It is I who made the earth
and created mankind upon it.
My own hands stretched out the heavens;
I marshaled their starry hosts.
If God is telling us the truth, then evolution is not science,
but rather "science fiction."
We have an obligation to God to teach our children the truth,
including in science class.
Rob Coleman, Heaton, Bolton says...
9:08am Fri 8 Jun 07
The author is not a Christian and has no religious act to grind; he is an experienced scientist who merely points out how, in his opinion, the theory of evolution is actually extremely unscientific in its basis.
I am a Christian myself. I cannot prove the existence of God to anyone but my personal experience of him makes it very easy for me to believe that he created the world as the Bible describes it.
trevor, bolton says...
9:17am Fri 8 Jun 07
For a theory to qualify as scientific, it must meet most of the following criteria:
Consistent, Parsimonious, Useful ,Empirically testable and falsifiable, Based on multiple observations, often in the form of controlled, repeated experiments, Correctable and dynamic, Progressive, Provisional or tentative.
ID fails on at least 5 of these.
The US, home to christian fundamentalism, employs the Daubert Standard to govern what can be classed as scientific evidence in courts - again ID fails.
Thus ID is not a theory it is an attempt by religious fruitcakes to get their ludicrous beliefs imposed on the minds of children. Even St Augustine said of the literal translation of Genesis ...
It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are
Andy Jones, says...
10:11am Fri 8 Jun 07
"One thing that stands out in this debate is the frequent assumption that evolution is a fact rather than what it holds itself up to be: evolutionary theory"
Evolution *is* fact and can be demonstrated with beings that have a very short lifespan (thus many generations within an observational timespan), such as the fruit fly (one month lifetime), which is often used in these experiments. Evolution *does* happen. The argument perhaps is whether it *did* happen and whether it's responsible for us being here in this state.
Rob Coleman said:
"For anyone who genuinely wants to investigate this subject I recommend the book 'Icons of Evolution: Science or Myth' by Jonathan Wells (Regnery Publishing; available through Amazon)."
It's interesting how human nature leads people to gravitate towards reading books that affirm the beliefs they already hold. Of *course* you think it's a good book, because it says what you want it to say. I might as well direct you towards any book by Richard Dawkins or indeed Michael Shermer, but you won't read them because they'll contradict what you believe and effectively say that you're wrong. I'm not having a go, we all do this.
Rob Coleman said:
"The author is not a Christian and has no religious act to grind; he is an experienced scientist who merely points out how, in his opinion, the theory of evolution is actually extremely unscientific in its basis"
Sorry, you're wrong. Wells *does* have an axe to grind and he specifically trained in getting a PhD so that his emotional wish to discredit evolution would appear to have some extra merit. Here is a *direct* quote from him
"Father's words, my studies, and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism, just as many of my fellow Unificationists had already devoted their lives to destroying Marxism. When Father chose me (along with about a dozen other seminary graduates) to enter a Ph.D. program in 1978, I welcomed the opportunity to prepare myself for battle"
Does that really sound like someone without an axe to grind? Hardly!
Andy Jones, says...
10:49am Fri 8 Jun 07
"The author is not a Christian and has no religious act to grind"
I should also point out that he *is* extremely religious and has been a member of the Moonies since the 1970's. The "Father" that he refers to in the above quote is not his biological father, but the leader of the Moonies, Sun Myung Moon. He *isn't* an experienced scientist and AFAIK has *never* held a scientific position of employment. He simply gained a scientific PhD as a means to an end. You can read his bio on Wikipedia, as well as various other places.
R T Sumner, Bolton says...
1:31pm Fri 8 Jun 07
trevor, bolton says...
2:15pm Fri 8 Jun 07
R T Sumner wrote:Yes, intolerant scientists have caused most of the wars around the world.
I agree with Rob Coleman.Evolution has never been fact but always been a theory. The anti religious lobby seems to be a lot more intolerant than the 'religious' community it seems to despise so much.The bible says'The fool says in his heart there is no God'.@nuff said
Now if you'll excuse me the fairies at the bottom of the garden need feeding - just because there isn't a scrap of evidence that they exist doesn't mean that they aren't real. I believe in them...
Andy Jones, says...
2:18pm Fri 8 Jun 07
"I agree with Rob Coleman.Evolution has never been fact but always been a theory."
Sorry, it's fact, for the reasons I've already said. It's a readily demonstratable effect which experiments have shown many times. Natural selection is even common sense, you see it demonstrated all the time.
R T Sumner said:
"The anti religious lobby seems to be a lot more intolerant than the 'religious' community it seems to despise so much."
Hardly! Take Jonathan Wells for example - a man who dedicated his life to "destroying Darwinism". Creationists seem to spend their time trying to disprove evolution (usually only showing that they don't actually understand it properly), rather than trying to prove their own beliefs - and that's *very* telling. It's always the religious community attacking the science of the evolutionists. Both yourself and Rob have offered nothing here other than an attack on evolution rather than trying to demonstrate how the Genesis story is more likely.
R T Sumner said:
"The bible says'The fool says in his heart there is no God'.@nuff said"
Well quite, it *would* say that - it has somewhat a vested interest in taking that stance!
pauline, Bolton says...
8:57pm Mon 11 Jun 07
Alan Wilson, Congleton says...
1:31pm Sat 16 Jun 07
Keep this superstious gobbledygook out of our children's science classrooms.
Alan
judd, bolton says...
12:53pm Sun 17 Jun 07
We have a few morings and evenings of days before they were created. How do you have a morning and evening or night and day without the Sun and the Moon?
Damned if I know.
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Ian, Bolton says...
11:40am Thu 7 Jun 07