Cameron’s EU pledge gets mixed reaction

9:24am Thursday 24th January 2013 in News

POLITICIANS in Bolton have broadly supported the idea of a referendum on Europe — even if they are divided on the reasons behind it.

In a landmark speech yesterday, Prime Minister David Cameron called for a change in Britain’s relationship with the European Union and pledged an “in or out referendum” in the first half of the next parliament — meaning a vote could take place by the end of 2017 if the Conservatives are re-elected.

But some local politicians claim Mr Cameron made the announcement to appease the right of his own party, saying the vote should happen “sooner rather than later” to draw a line under the issue.

MP for Bolton North East, David Crausby, was secretary of the Get Britain Out campaign’s Bury branch in 1975, when the last referendum was held on membership of what was then the Common Market.

But he said the EU had delivered too much, and Britain was in “too deep”, to pull out now.

He said: “I’ve always supported the idea of a referendum but think it should be held sooner rather than later. If we’d have pulled out then we could have built different relationships, but the Commonwealth has declined and those countries have gone their own way.”

He added: “The people campaigning to leave then were left wing, now they’re right wing — that’s because the European Union has delivered a lot for the left on things like rights for workers, women and ethnic minorities.”

Bolton’s Conservative leader David Greenhalgh said: “I’m delighted. People are getting fed up of our country constantly being told what to do by Brussels.

“David Cameron is right to re-negotiate our position and relationship with Europe, and then go to the British people to let them have the final say.”

Conservative deputy leader Andy Morgan said: “Many of us haven’t forgotten that it was Labour who urged this country to join the Euro 10 years ago with a prediction of meltdown if we didn’t. That never happened so their scaremongering will not wash with the majority of Bolton residents.”

Bolton Liberal Democrat leader Roger Hayes said: “Liberal Democrats would campaign for Britain retaining a strong voice within the EU as we believe it is very much in Britain’s interests.”

Geoff Kay, secretary of Bolton’s fledgling UKIP branch, which was launched this month, said: “Cameron is recognising the popularity of UKIP and the negative EU sentiment across the country. Being as politically astute as ever, he is endeavouring to take the wind out of our sails by this pre-emptive action.”

Matt Kilsby, Bolton Unison branch chairman, said: “David Cameron’s call for a referendum seems to be a cynical ploy to try to divert public attention away from any debate about the failings of government policies at home.”

Comments (16)

9:45am Thu 24 Jan 13

supercool says...

None of the other EU countries or big business care about the British people they only want free trade and ability for immigrants to poor in, vote for change

Sign this petition to restrict Bulgarian and Romanians from entering the UK:
http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/41492

Sign this petition to allow UKIP to take part in the 2015 TV election debates:
http://epetitions.di
rect.gov.uk/petition
s/43153
None of the other EU countries or big business care about the British people they only want free trade and ability for immigrants to poor in, vote for change Sign this petition to restrict Bulgarian and Romanians from entering the UK: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/41492 Sign this petition to allow UKIP to take part in the 2015 TV election debates: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/43153 supercool

3:29pm Thu 24 Jan 13

Beyond News Forum says...

We are a set of islands off the coast of mainland Europe. Most of the media and some of those in parliament would have you believe business would up sticks and move from the uk. Bull! Many business leaders have championed the PM'S DECISION to hold a referendum. We are about as much part of Europe as the Falkland's are part of Argentina. We do not need Brussels at the helm bullying our nation. I'm for one sick of being part of a system that treats the uk as a door mat. It is time to look after our own. Forget 4 years time let's do this now.
We are a set of islands off the coast of mainland Europe. Most of the media and some of those in parliament would have you believe business would up sticks and move from the uk. Bull! Many business leaders have championed the PM'S DECISION to hold a referendum. We are about as much part of Europe as the Falkland's are part of Argentina. We do not need Brussels at the helm bullying our nation. I'm for one sick of being part of a system that treats the uk as a door mat. It is time to look after our own. Forget 4 years time let's do this now. Beyond News Forum

5:30pm Thu 24 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

If it wasn't for the EU we wouldn't have the minimum wage and there would be many more families below the pverty line due to businesses wanting to pay less than either a living wage or minimum wage.

If it wasn't for the EU we wouldn't have a guaranteed 25 days holiday (excluding bank Holidays) each year and eb allowed to carry at least 5 days forward each year. Without that legisaltion the number of holidays allowed would be on average 2 weeks including Bank Holidays.

If it wasn't for the EU there would be no statutory sick leave and would basically come from either your days holiday or even unpaid time off.

If it wasn't for the EU there wuld be no free flow of British people moving and working within teh EU - and as such if we leave then those millions would have to return if they did not wish to renationalise themselves - and how many millions of British live within the EU???

The EU introduced the 48 hour working week - something I totally agree - so as to give people a life outside work rather than being blackmailed to work unpaid overtime etc etc etc to the fat cat employers!!!

There are many other legislative points that the EU have introduced to help the worker have a more eual balance with their employees and yet you want to get rid and become a slave to fat cats once again!!!


We are in the middle of Europe, we have countries within the EU all around us - we are not off the western side of Europe alone - Ireland is further west than us and they are in the EU. We would be a small fish in a big pond if we leave the project, and what happens to small fish???
If it wasn't for the EU we wouldn't have the minimum wage and there would be many more families below the pverty line due to businesses wanting to pay less than either a living wage or minimum wage. If it wasn't for the EU we wouldn't have a guaranteed 25 days holiday (excluding bank Holidays) each year and eb allowed to carry at least 5 days forward each year. Without that legisaltion the number of holidays allowed would be on average 2 weeks including Bank Holidays. If it wasn't for the EU there would be no statutory sick leave and would basically come from either your days holiday or even unpaid time off. If it wasn't for the EU there wuld be no free flow of British people moving and working within teh EU - and as such if we leave then those millions would have to return if they did not wish to renationalise themselves - and how many millions of British live within the EU??? The EU introduced the 48 hour working week - something I totally agree - so as to give people a life outside work rather than being blackmailed to work unpaid overtime etc etc etc to the fat cat employers!!! There are many other legislative points that the EU have introduced to help the worker have a more eual balance with their employees and yet you want to get rid and become a slave to fat cats once again!!! We are in the middle of Europe, we have countries within the EU all around us - we are not off the western side of Europe alone - Ireland is further west than us and they are in the EU. We would be a small fish in a big pond if we leave the project, and what happens to small fish??? BWFC71

9:32pm Thu 24 Jan 13

BoltonLancs says...

@BWFC71 - are you suggesting that a UK political party couldn't implement these workers' rights? The party that did would be very popular in Government, AND it wouldn't cost the country £billions to implement common sense...!
The likes of Ireland are only in the EU because, as a comparatively poorer nation, they get a lot more out of the EU financially than they put in...in fact, as we've seen, the EU is a fantastic insurance poicy for them, and others...and guess who's under-writing it..???
In your next post BWFC71, would you kindly list the negatives of the UK being in the EU...?
Thanks.
@BWFC71 - are you suggesting that a UK political party couldn't implement these workers' rights? The party that did would be very popular in Government, AND it wouldn't cost the country £billions to implement common sense...! The likes of Ireland are only in the EU because, as a comparatively poorer nation, they get a lot more out of the EU financially than they put in...in fact, as we've seen, the EU is a fantastic insurance poicy for them, and others...and guess who's under-writing it..??? In your next post BWFC71, would you kindly list the negatives of the UK being in the EU...? Thanks. BoltonLancs

10:40pm Thu 24 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

@Bolton Lancs what about the new buses provided by TfGM - the money for them came from Brussels, also the majority of the money coming from teh Government for the railway imprvements over next 10 years also comes from the EU and Bolton were given plenty of money from brussels for the network of cycle paths around the town - Do you honestly think that any of our political parties would have given the money for any of these projects if we were not in the EU. All the parties are anti-transport except for the use of cars (as they get the revenue from fuel!!!!)

Do you honestly think that any political party care about workers? All parties are more concerned about businesses and the fat cat bosses and making sure that they ok and will bend over backwards to make sure that these businesses are appeased and will stay in the country.

We are already heading the same way as the States, when it comes to workers rights, or lack of.

Yes the EU come out with stupid decisions but many are not implemented but the British press still go ahead and advise its law when its not!

The more recent one being the press blaming the EU for the anti-smoking laws!!! Utter rubbish.

One question, if/when the UK does leave the EU who will the press blame next for teh stupid laws that will be brought in?

Lets not forget if it wasn't for the EU we would not have cleaner beaches, less pollution, do you really want me to go on with regards to the positives.

For the false negatives, just need to look at any British newspaper (which are actually very pro-EU and don't like saying so).
@Bolton Lancs what about the new buses provided by TfGM - the money for them came from Brussels, also the majority of the money coming from teh Government for the railway imprvements over next 10 years also comes from the EU and Bolton were given plenty of money from brussels for the network of cycle paths around the town - Do you honestly think that any of our political parties would have given the money for any of these projects if we were not in the EU. All the parties are anti-transport except for the use of cars (as they get the revenue from fuel!!!!) Do you honestly think that any political party care about workers? All parties are more concerned about businesses and the fat cat bosses and making sure that they ok and will bend over backwards to make sure that these businesses are appeased and will stay in the country. We are already heading the same way as the States, when it comes to workers rights, or lack of. Yes the EU come out with stupid decisions but many are not implemented but the British press still go ahead and advise its law when its not! The more recent one being the press blaming the EU for the anti-smoking laws!!! Utter rubbish. One question, if/when the UK does leave the EU who will the press blame next for teh stupid laws that will be brought in? Lets not forget if it wasn't for the EU we would not have cleaner beaches, less pollution, do you really want me to go on with regards to the positives. For the false negatives, just need to look at any British newspaper (which are actually very pro-EU and don't like saying so). BWFC71

2:31am Fri 25 Jan 13

Beyond News Forum says...

I still don't give a cr@p about the EU. Those policies could still be part of the political system if ukip get in and more that would look after our own and cut the red tape also. I moved to the US which had nothing to do with the EU. Many people are moving to Oz, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa... So the remark about EU MEMBERSHIP and working/moving abroad is a feeble argument. Many of us have suffered because of the EU IMMIGRATION policies some have CLEARLY benefited and boomed on saying they are here for work - sent money back home, worked for 12 months and then claimed benefits because they are better off after having a kid. I'm f'ing sick of people trying to spin Euro PROPAGANDA - THOSE PEOPLE just love to throw up the nonsense that the twisted corporate media have BSed about for the last 30 years. Who are you trying to kid? No... Britain does NOT need the capitalist vultures and elitist's of Europe, we have enough of them here. Go fill your boots in London where most of that Euro cash is spent! Or should I say gambled on risky investments and bombing other countries!
I still don't give a cr@p about the EU. Those policies could still be part of the political system if ukip get in and more that would look after our own and cut the red tape also. I moved to the US which had nothing to do with the EU. Many people are moving to Oz, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa... So the remark about EU MEMBERSHIP and working/moving abroad is a feeble argument. Many of us have suffered because of the EU IMMIGRATION policies some have CLEARLY benefited and boomed on saying they are here for work - sent money back home, worked for 12 months and then claimed benefits because they are better off after having a kid. I'm f'ing sick of people trying to spin Euro PROPAGANDA - THOSE PEOPLE just love to throw up the nonsense that the twisted corporate media have BSed about for the last 30 years. Who are you trying to kid? No... Britain does NOT need the capitalist vultures and elitist's of Europe, we have enough of them here. Go fill your boots in London where most of that Euro cash is spent! Or should I say gambled on risky investments and bombing other countries! Beyond News Forum

2:37am Fri 25 Jan 13

Beyond News Forum says...

As for cycle paths, railways etc. We would be able to fork out for our own if we didn't pay for half of Europes bailouts and such. Your argument is lost!
As for cycle paths, railways etc. We would be able to fork out for our own if we didn't pay for half of Europes bailouts and such. Your argument is lost! Beyond News Forum

9:44am Fri 25 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

@Beyond.....

We should be forking it ourselves on the transport front BUT do any of the Political Parties agree with that. Look over the last 30 years money towards transport, from Central Government has decreased year on year. Look at railways - we are the most expensive country in the western world with regrds to travelling by train due to lack of funds from Central Government.

If its not a car none of the parties want to know.

So the argument that we should be able to fund it falls flat when the government doesn't give a **** and funds have to be sought from elsewhere!!!
@Beyond..... We should be forking it ourselves on the transport front BUT do any of the Political Parties agree with that. Look over the last 30 years money towards transport, from Central Government has decreased year on year. Look at railways - we are the most expensive country in the western world with regrds to travelling by train due to lack of funds from Central Government. If its not a car none of the parties want to know. So the argument that we should be able to fund it falls flat when the government doesn't give a **** and funds have to be sought from elsewhere!!! BWFC71

9:53am Fri 25 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

Beyond News Forum wrote:
I still don't give a cr@p about the EU. Those policies could still be part of the political system if ukip get in and more that would look after our own and cut the red tape also. I moved to the US which had nothing to do with the EU. Many people are moving to Oz, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa... So the remark about EU MEMBERSHIP and working/moving abroad is a feeble argument. Many of us have suffered because of the EU IMMIGRATION policies some have CLEARLY benefited and boomed on saying they are here for work - sent money back home, worked for 12 months and then claimed benefits because they are better off after having a kid. I'm f'ing sick of people trying to spin Euro PROPAGANDA - THOSE PEOPLE just love to throw up the nonsense that the twisted corporate media have BSed about for the last 30 years. Who are you trying to kid? No... Britain does NOT need the capitalist vultures and elitist's of Europe, we have enough of them here. Go fill your boots in London where most of that Euro cash is spent! Or should I say gambled on risky investments and bombing other countries!
Nigel Farage is a good propagander PR person.

Fact is UKIP have no MP's in the British Parliament. They, himself in cluded, are MEP's. Do you honestly think he and other MEP's want to lose their jobs if/when the UK comes out of the EU??? Do you honestly think they want to lose the benefits of being an MEP if/when UK leaves the EU???

Truth is Farage, and UKIP in general, have not set out their stall for if they ever got into power. their one trick wonder is the referendum. What will happen to the VAT when we leave Euope, will that be disbanded or just renamed as another tax (service tax???) will it be reduced? I somehow doubt it due to the fact its a good income which no government will want to lose!!! What about investmeent in the US style NHS (which comes about in 9 weeks) or education - I know lets give MP's a 30% year on year pay rise instead, which iss what they are wanting.

Truth is, if/when the UK leave the EU nothing will change for the better - it will be status quo except that the paper will not be able to blame the EU for any slight super-hyped wrong doing!!! If anything things will get worse as in the UK business comes before people!!!
[quote][p][bold]Beyond News Forum[/bold] wrote: I still don't give a cr@p about the EU. Those policies could still be part of the political system if ukip get in and more that would look after our own and cut the red tape also. I moved to the US which had nothing to do with the EU. Many people are moving to Oz, Mexico, Brazil and South Africa... So the remark about EU MEMBERSHIP and working/moving abroad is a feeble argument. Many of us have suffered because of the EU IMMIGRATION policies some have CLEARLY benefited and boomed on saying they are here for work - sent money back home, worked for 12 months and then claimed benefits because they are better off after having a kid. I'm f'ing sick of people trying to spin Euro PROPAGANDA - THOSE PEOPLE just love to throw up the nonsense that the twisted corporate media have BSed about for the last 30 years. Who are you trying to kid? No... Britain does NOT need the capitalist vultures and elitist's of Europe, we have enough of them here. Go fill your boots in London where most of that Euro cash is spent! Or should I say gambled on risky investments and bombing other countries![/p][/quote]Nigel Farage is a good propagander PR person. Fact is UKIP have no MP's in the British Parliament. They, himself in cluded, are MEP's. Do you honestly think he and other MEP's want to lose their jobs if/when the UK comes out of the EU??? Do you honestly think they want to lose the benefits of being an MEP if/when UK leaves the EU??? Truth is Farage, and UKIP in general, have not set out their stall for if they ever got into power. their one trick wonder is the referendum. What will happen to the VAT when we leave Euope, will that be disbanded or just renamed as another tax (service tax???) will it be reduced? I somehow doubt it due to the fact its a good income which no government will want to lose!!! What about investmeent in the US style NHS (which comes about in 9 weeks) or education - I know lets give MP's a 30% year on year pay rise instead, which iss what they are wanting. Truth is, if/when the UK leave the EU nothing will change for the better - it will be status quo except that the paper will not be able to blame the EU for any slight super-hyped wrong doing!!! If anything things will get worse as in the UK business comes before people!!! BWFC71

10:10am Fri 25 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

@Beyond

What a load of codswallop you came out with with regards to expatss in Us and OZ. A British ciczencurrently does not need a visa to enter work and live in the EU. Outside teb EU one requires a specialist visa to work, live and enter and do you know how nigh impossible it is to get one, especially if one has a criminal record. Also as it is recorded one cannot work overseas and still claim benefit in the UK - that would be classed as FRAUD!!!

If/when the UK leaves the EU do you honestly think the rest of the EU will be gratious? I somehow doubt it and we will require visa's (whether it be a travel card visa or a full visa) to enter the EU (just like we do for none EU countries). It will also mean that Uk citizens living in these countries will have to be naturalised or have to move back to the UK.

For me the more important matter is not the EU but the UK itself. Why is it we are moaning about the EU when Wales and Scotland have free prescription and free education whilst us English don't and itss us English that are supporting Wales and Scotland. How much more money could we save if we sorted out our home affairs before tackling Europe??? Why is it Scotland has its own Parliament, the Welsh and Northern Irish have their own assemblies but we do not have anything - apart from the BRITISH Parliament.

EU is a scape-goat for any political party to hide teh fact we have much bigger problems back home - and we do. Lets sort ourselves out before sorting out the EU, otherwise if/when we do leave the EU we will be in much more bigger trouble politrically speaking than we are now!!!
@Beyond What a load of codswallop you came out with with regards to expatss in Us and OZ. A British ciczencurrently does not need a visa to enter work and live in the EU. Outside teb EU one requires a specialist visa to work, live and enter and do you know how nigh impossible it is to get one, especially if one has a criminal record. Also as it is recorded one cannot work overseas and still claim benefit in the UK - that would be classed as FRAUD!!! If/when the UK leaves the EU do you honestly think the rest of the EU will be gratious? I somehow doubt it and we will require visa's (whether it be a travel card visa or a full visa) to enter the EU (just like we do for none EU countries). It will also mean that Uk citizens living in these countries will have to be naturalised or have to move back to the UK. For me the more important matter is not the EU but the UK itself. Why is it we are moaning about the EU when Wales and Scotland have free prescription and free education whilst us English don't and itss us English that are supporting Wales and Scotland. How much more money could we save if we sorted out our home affairs before tackling Europe??? Why is it Scotland has its own Parliament, the Welsh and Northern Irish have their own assemblies but we do not have anything - apart from the BRITISH Parliament. EU is a scape-goat for any political party to hide teh fact we have much bigger problems back home - and we do. Lets sort ourselves out before sorting out the EU, otherwise if/when we do leave the EU we will be in much more bigger trouble politrically speaking than we are now!!! BWFC71

10:16am Fri 25 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

supercool wrote:
None of the other EU countries or big business care about the British people they only want free trade and ability for immigrants to poor in, vote for change

Sign this petition to restrict Bulgarian and Romanians from entering the UK:
http://epetitions.di

rect.gov.uk/petition

s/41492

Sign this petition to allow UKIP to take part in the 2015 TV election debates:
http://epetitions.di

rect.gov.uk/petition

s/43153
1. It is pour and not poor
2. How many immigrants stay in Holland, Germany etc etc etc they have the same problems as the UK and moan about it - it is not a quniquely British problem - open your eyes to the world rather than being rose tinted, and being led by the red-top papers (who are backed by pro-EU managemnnts and know how to sell papers!!!!)
3. Why should UKIP be part of the debate they have NO MP's in the British Parliament and only 2 MEP's in Brussels. If thats the case then BNP has more of a case of being on the teleivised debates than what UKIP does!!!
4. Rempove the immigrants and bring back the expats and how do you sort out the exact same problem of overcrowding but will all British citizens????

Blimey how ignorant many people are, just because they are led by what the papers say and don't know the actual truth!
[quote][p][bold]supercool[/bold] wrote: None of the other EU countries or big business care about the British people they only want free trade and ability for immigrants to poor in, vote for change Sign this petition to restrict Bulgarian and Romanians from entering the UK: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/41492 Sign this petition to allow UKIP to take part in the 2015 TV election debates: http://epetitions.di rect.gov.uk/petition s/43153[/p][/quote]1. It is pour and not poor 2. How many immigrants stay in Holland, Germany etc etc etc they have the same problems as the UK and moan about it - it is not a quniquely British problem - open your eyes to the world rather than being rose tinted, and being led by the red-top papers (who are backed by pro-EU managemnnts and know how to sell papers!!!!) 3. Why should UKIP be part of the debate they have NO MP's in the British Parliament and only 2 MEP's in Brussels. If thats the case then BNP has more of a case of being on the teleivised debates than what UKIP does!!! 4. Rempove the immigrants and bring back the expats and how do you sort out the exact same problem of overcrowding but will all British citizens???? Blimey how ignorant many people are, just because they are led by what the papers say and don't know the actual truth! BWFC71

10:22am Fri 25 Jan 13

Beyond News Forum says...

I agree on some of the points you raise. Fact is though ukip as with the bnp have been moreorless hounded out of the political system. One because of mindless garbage being spouted when actually it could have been a great political party. The other simply because it did not have the funding from cronie elitist capitalist's that swarm around the big three lobbying all manner of money making legislation and businesses where the money is widely spent on their own interests and only goes into the world markets to hold whole countries to ransom. Yes ukip have Euro MP's but that is because that is the only way they can get a foot in the political doorway and have a say. I say far play to them, use Brussel's like Brussel's scr@w the uk over. The tide is turning my friend. Like myself we have new younger political generation ready to take action against the aging dinosaurs that do not give a **** about the future of even their own grandchildren. There people WILL HAVE TO LISTEN when the proverbial shaster hits the fan. I hope you are ready for the coming wake up call, because I am.
I agree on some of the points you raise. Fact is though ukip as with the bnp have been moreorless hounded out of the political system. One because of mindless garbage being spouted when actually it could have been a great political party. The other simply because it did not have the funding from cronie elitist capitalist's that swarm around the big three lobbying all manner of money making legislation and businesses where the money is widely spent on their own interests and only goes into the world markets to hold whole countries to ransom. Yes ukip have Euro MP's but that is because that is the only way they can get a foot in the political doorway and have a say. I say far play to them, use Brussel's like Brussel's scr@w the uk over. The tide is turning my friend. Like myself we have new younger political generation ready to take action against the aging dinosaurs that do not give a **** about the future of even their own grandchildren. There people WILL HAVE TO LISTEN when the proverbial shaster hits the fan. I hope you are ready for the coming wake up call, because I am. Beyond News Forum

10:36am Fri 25 Jan 13

Beyond News Forum says...

As for the immigration part you missed the point totally. You do not have to wander off into a Europe that is on the verge of collapse and about to take countless countries down with it. Sh@t man you would have to be stupid to take up roots in places such as Greece, Italy, portugal, Spain and countless others in the current fake economic crisis. Get a grip when you talk about criminal records. 200k immigrants came to the uk in recent years without having had the proper checks. We are now finding out to our own dismay that we have money launderers, prostitution racket's, people smugglers, drug dealers, alcohol faker's, benefit cheats and worst of all murder's and rapist's piling in over the border's. How incredibly wrong you are. Paid much by the council are you?
As for the immigration part you missed the point totally. You do not have to wander off into a Europe that is on the verge of collapse and about to take countless countries down with it. Sh@t man you would have to be stupid to take up roots in places such as Greece, Italy, portugal, Spain and countless others in the current fake economic crisis. Get a grip when you talk about criminal records. 200k immigrants came to the uk in recent years without having had the proper checks. We are now finding out to our own dismay that we have money launderers, prostitution racket's, people smugglers, drug dealers, alcohol faker's, benefit cheats and worst of all murder's and rapist's piling in over the border's. How incredibly wrong you are. Paid much by the council are you? Beyond News Forum

10:55am Fri 25 Jan 13

Beyond News Forum says...

Sorry BWFC71,

I'm not sure if you are with me on this or not. It's too early lol.

I shouldn't have said 'paid much by the council' you clearly are not as you seem to have a great UKIP voice in you.
Sorry BWFC71, I'm not sure if you are with me on this or not. It's too early lol. I shouldn't have said 'paid much by the council' you clearly are not as you seem to have a great UKIP voice in you. Beyond News Forum

7:09pm Fri 25 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

Beyond News Forum wrote:
As for the immigration part you missed the point totally. You do not have to wander off into a Europe that is on the verge of collapse and about to take countless countries down with it. Sh@t man you would have to be stupid to take up roots in places such as Greece, Italy, portugal, Spain and countless others in the current fake economic crisis. Get a grip when you talk about criminal records. 200k immigrants came to the uk in recent years without having had the proper checks. We are now finding out to our own dismay that we have money launderers, prostitution racket's, people smugglers, drug dealers, alcohol faker's, benefit cheats and worst of all murder's and rapist's piling in over the border's. How incredibly wrong you are. Paid much by the council are you?
you talk about 200K immigrannts came into UK with Criminal checks - how many of those come from the EU where no checks are required (just as much as no checks are required when people from England go to Wales scotland and Northern Ireland) - and how many from non-EU countries and if those from non-Eu countries are not checked then whose fault is it? The EU or the UK Border Force?

Do you agree that there should be no criminal checks when us England move to either Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland? If you do, then you also should agree that non should be made for people coming from other EU countries!!!

Europe is not on the verge of collapse. Europe is a continant not an entity!!! there are some countries that are being given money to help them through teh difficult times - very akin to benefits system (and I bet you see no wrong in that!) Italy has not needed a hand out, neither has most of the other 27 countries involved in the EU Project. In fact the vast majority of the 27 countries involved are actually in a much better position than the UK with regards to the unemployed, job creation and and less debt!!!

I do believe that you do not read around teh subject and just gain your information from the British Press who are just out to sell papers and sell mis-information.

Can you tell me any oen country in europe which has not had problems with money laudering (which has been happening for centuries and is not a problem of recebnt times), prostitution rackets (isn't that the oldest profession on this planet so how has immigrants created a problem = and wouldn't it be better to follow the lead of The Netherlands, Austria, Belgium, Germany and make it legal and safe), smugglers and drug dealers - again thsi has been happening for centuries - never heard of smugglers caves on the coast??? drug dealers, in which decade has there never been any drug dealers? Alcohol fakers - ahh the good old moonshine from C17 up to present day and everybody, given teh chance make their own and sell it on, benefit cheats - accordiung to official records there are more UK benefit cheats than of any other nationality (mainly due to the fact that other nationalities actually work for a living and not live off benefits like the press and urban myth say!) murders and rapists - hmm let me think yep they have also been happening since beginning of time and if you try to convinec its gione up sinec the EU open its borders errm nope its neither gone up nor down and many convicetd actually come from OUTSIDE the EU.

It seems to me that many of your reasonings are based on flase fact and scare mongering by certain papers - who are they going to blame when we leave teh EU and its still happening???

Lastly I do not work for the council and I don't even live in the UK. I live one of the EU countries, as I had to find work to pay my way in life and keep an objective mind as to the problems of the UK and the false accusations by the press about the EU and knwoing what the real truth is.
[quote][p][bold]Beyond News Forum[/bold] wrote: As for the immigration part you missed the point totally. You do not have to wander off into a Europe that is on the verge of collapse and about to take countless countries down with it. Sh@t man you would have to be stupid to take up roots in places such as Greece, Italy, portugal, Spain and countless others in the current fake economic crisis. Get a grip when you talk about criminal records. 200k immigrants came to the uk in recent years without having had the proper checks. We are now finding out to our own dismay that we have money launderers, prostitution racket's, people smugglers, drug dealers, alcohol faker's, benefit cheats and worst of all murder's and rapist's piling in over the border's. How incredibly wrong you are. Paid much by the council are you?[/p][/quote]you talk about 200K immigrannts came into UK with Criminal checks - how many of those come from the EU where no checks are required (just as much as no checks are required when people from England go to Wales scotland and Northern Ireland) - and how many from non-EU countries and if those from non-Eu countries are not checked then whose fault is it? The EU or the UK Border Force? Do you agree that there should be no criminal checks when us England move to either Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland? If you do, then you also should agree that non should be made for people coming from other EU countries!!! Europe is not on the verge of collapse. Europe is a continant not an entity!!! there are some countries that are being given money to help them through teh difficult times - very akin to benefits system (and I bet you see no wrong in that!) Italy has not needed a hand out, neither has most of the other 27 countries involved in the EU Project. In fact the vast majority of the 27 countries involved are actually in a much better position than the UK with regards to the unemployed, job creation and and less debt!!! I do believe that you do not read around teh subject and just gain your information from the British Press who are just out to sell papers and sell mis-information. Can you tell me any oen country in europe which has not had problems with money laudering (which has been happening for centuries and is not a problem of recebnt times), prostitution rackets (isn't that the oldest profession on this planet so how has immigrants created a problem = and wouldn't it be better to follow the lead of The Netherlands, Austria, Belgium, Germany and make it legal and safe), smugglers and drug dealers - again thsi has been happening for centuries - never heard of smugglers caves on the coast??? drug dealers, in which decade has there never been any drug dealers? Alcohol fakers - ahh the good old moonshine from C17 up to present day and everybody, given teh chance make their own and sell it on, benefit cheats - accordiung to official records there are more UK benefit cheats than of any other nationality (mainly due to the fact that other nationalities actually work for a living and not live off benefits like the press and urban myth say!) murders and rapists - hmm let me think yep they have also been happening since beginning of time and if you try to convinec its gione up sinec the EU open its borders errm nope its neither gone up nor down and many convicetd actually come from OUTSIDE the EU. It seems to me that many of your reasonings are based on flase fact and scare mongering by certain papers - who are they going to blame when we leave teh EU and its still happening??? Lastly I do not work for the council and I don't even live in the UK. I live one of the EU countries, as I had to find work to pay my way in life and keep an objective mind as to the problems of the UK and the false accusations by the press about the EU and knwoing what the real truth is. BWFC71

7:19pm Fri 25 Jan 13

BWFC71 says...

Beyond News Forum wrote:
I agree on some of the points you raise. Fact is though ukip as with the bnp have been moreorless hounded out of the political system. One because of mindless garbage being spouted when actually it could have been a great political party. The other simply because it did not have the funding from cronie elitist capitalist's that swarm around the big three lobbying all manner of money making legislation and businesses where the money is widely spent on their own interests and only goes into the world markets to hold whole countries to ransom. Yes ukip have Euro MP's but that is because that is the only way they can get a foot in the political doorway and have a say. I say far play to them, use Brussel's like Brussel's scr@w the uk over. The tide is turning my friend. Like myself we have new younger political generation ready to take action against the aging dinosaurs that do not give a **** about the future of even their own grandchildren. There people WILL HAVE TO LISTEN when the proverbial shaster hits the fan. I hope you are ready for the coming wake up call, because I am.
The wake up call is that EU can destroy the UK, more than it can do itself. We need the Eu just as much as the EU needs us.

I would advise to loom around you when travelling and look at what teh EUY has provided for this country to function from the metrolink network to care homes from new school buildings to link roads and by-passes. From conservation areas to cultural buildings.

And if you honestly think that any government during taht time would have finded any of those projects then you will be sadly mistaken. they even created a National Lottery to fund many things, so as not to use Central Government money!!!

The wake-up call is when we do leave the EU and realise that nothing will change for the better but actually worse for the common person - which is what will happen.

No British government are prepred to work for teh common person but are there to make money themselves and to forward their own careers whilst shafting the common man. At least the EU gave us regulations, which would never have happened under any British government, to help the workers for better lifestyle.

Also if/when we do leave the EU, do not be surprised of we become the 51st state of the USA within 50 years - as thats what the current Government is currently doing, laying the foundations of becoming American (NHS shake up in 9 weeks which is more of a US imprint than whatever the health system was!!! Changing the rules of employment to exactly teh same of those in teh US where the worker loses the right to compensation when jobs are lost!!! loses the right to sick leave and loses more than half the holiday entitlement and having to work Bank Holiday - all against EU legislation, by the way!!!) I would rather call myself a European rather than American!
[quote][p][bold]Beyond News Forum[/bold] wrote: I agree on some of the points you raise. Fact is though ukip as with the bnp have been moreorless hounded out of the political system. One because of mindless garbage being spouted when actually it could have been a great political party. The other simply because it did not have the funding from cronie elitist capitalist's that swarm around the big three lobbying all manner of money making legislation and businesses where the money is widely spent on their own interests and only goes into the world markets to hold whole countries to ransom. Yes ukip have Euro MP's but that is because that is the only way they can get a foot in the political doorway and have a say. I say far play to them, use Brussel's like Brussel's scr@w the uk over. The tide is turning my friend. Like myself we have new younger political generation ready to take action against the aging dinosaurs that do not give a **** about the future of even their own grandchildren. There people WILL HAVE TO LISTEN when the proverbial shaster hits the fan. I hope you are ready for the coming wake up call, because I am.[/p][/quote]The wake up call is that EU can destroy the UK, more than it can do itself. We need the Eu just as much as the EU needs us. I would advise to loom around you when travelling and look at what teh EUY has provided for this country to function from the metrolink network to care homes from new school buildings to link roads and by-passes. From conservation areas to cultural buildings. And if you honestly think that any government during taht time would have finded any of those projects then you will be sadly mistaken. they even created a National Lottery to fund many things, so as not to use Central Government money!!! The wake-up call is when we do leave the EU and realise that nothing will change for the better but actually worse for the common person - which is what will happen. No British government are prepred to work for teh common person but are there to make money themselves and to forward their own careers whilst shafting the common man. At least the EU gave us regulations, which would never have happened under any British government, to help the workers for better lifestyle. Also if/when we do leave the EU, do not be surprised of we become the 51st state of the USA within 50 years - as thats what the current Government is currently doing, laying the foundations of becoming American (NHS shake up in 9 weeks which is more of a US imprint than whatever the health system was!!! Changing the rules of employment to exactly teh same of those in teh US where the worker loses the right to compensation when jobs are lost!!! loses the right to sick leave and loses more than half the holiday entitlement and having to work Bank Holiday - all against EU legislation, by the way!!!) I would rather call myself a European rather than American! BWFC71

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