Church adds debt advice centre to its food bank (From The Bolton News)

Councillor Spencer is being disingenuous about the so-called "bedroom tax".

Firstly, it is not a tax; it is a much needed benefits reform.

Secondly, it tackles selfishness in social housing. At a time when there is much need for social housing, it is socially irresponsible and greedy to have empty bedrooms in social housing property funded by the taxpayer.

How the Labour Party can support crass selfishness is beyond the comprehension of reasonable people who contribute to society.

Shall we talk about avoiding debt too?

Isn't it morally repugnant to avoid a personal liability. Certainly that is the case in Islam and in certain Christian orders.

So, does the Christian Debt Line encourage IVA's?

I HAD SOME RESPECT FOR THE FOODBANK, but not any more. The other day I was about to make a donation, but when I got to the church on Trafford street, I was quite frankly disgusted. Outside there was a group of people, men women and children, none of whom looked like they had seen soap in months, smoking there heads off; one woman was drinking a can of super strength larger, whilst holding the bag of food that she had collected. I interacted with the group, and was disgusted with there attitude, and there opinion seemed to be why pay at a supermarket when you can get it free. I am prepared to help people with a genuine need, but if they can afford to smoke and drink, then the donation will stay in the boot of my car

I'm with you SUNFUN, they are totally selfish. Must have a fag/must have a beer. Just don't think of there children or where the food is coming from.

The Lord will provide.

sunfun wrote:
I HAD SOME RESPECT FOR THE FOODBANK, but not any more. The other day I was about to make a donation, but when I got to the church on Trafford street, I was quite frankly disgusted. Outside there was a group of people, men women and children, none of whom looked like they had seen soap in months, smoking there heads off; one woman was drinking a can of super strength larger, whilst holding the bag of food that she had collected. I interacted with the group, and was disgusted with there attitude, and there opinion seemed to be why pay at a supermarket when you can get it free. I am prepared to help people with a genuine need, but if they can afford to smoke and drink, then the donation will stay in the boot of my car

How do you know they were there for the food bank?

How do you know that they would get any food?

Very easy to label when you don't even know the correct full circumstances - is the Tory way!!!

BTW I agree with the "bedroom" tax but also believe that there are certain circumstances in which it has to be waived - under the current procedures the situations I am thinking of are NOT being waived which is wrong - and what I am thinking are on medical grounds where the use of a "spare" room is very much required.

I was unemployed for 15 months and NOT eligable for any sort of benefits - I actually fell out of the system and was not one of the counted when it came to the official figures!!!! Therefore if I had known of this place it would have been a Godsend.

To have a certainty of getting a job nowadays one has to be registered with the Job Centre and many of the job agencies and guess what 99% of those one has to register via the internet only - so how does one afford the internet when not receiving any benefit and just living off savings??? Also one needs a mobile phone - I wasn't allowed to cancel my subscription as the contract was less than 18 months old and as such now have a CCJ because I could not pay the bill. I ended up getting a PAYG sim card and putting on £10/month. I do not smoke and I very rarely drink - I only drink when visitring relatives and it is often just 1 pint or 1 glass of wine druing the meal. I have a satellite dish but not sky - in fact I was able to cancel my subscription and go on whats known as Free-view (not the same as "Freeview" but same in what one can be recieved!). I had to give my car up and use public transport - and have you ever caught a bus in recent years? £3 for a single 10 minute journey!!!!.

Up until last month I was living off hand-outs from friends and family.

I now have gained employement and don't get my wage for another 28 days so that yet another month of hand-outs.

The UK is much more poorer than one realises and yet we spend BILLIONS on overseas aid and illegal wars.

Not everyone is a scrounger and you have fallen into the Governments hands of wanting all unemployed people being called a scrounger - a divided and conquer strategy!!!

Would you call all those who have served for this country, but being made unemployed due to cutbacks but need the benefits to survive as scroungers? I somehow don't think you would - wouldn't then make you a hypocrite?

BWFC71 wrote:

sunfun wrote: I HAD SOME RESPECT FOR THE FOODBANK, but not any more. The other day I was about to make a donation, but when I got to the church on Trafford street, I was quite frankly disgusted. Outside there was a group of people, men women and children, none of whom looked like they had seen soap in months, smoking there heads off; one woman was drinking a can of super strength larger, whilst holding the bag of food that she had collected. I interacted with the group, and was disgusted with there attitude, and there opinion seemed to be why pay at a supermarket when you can get it free. I am prepared to help people with a genuine need, but if they can afford to smoke and drink, then the donation will stay in the boot of my car

How do you know they were there for the food bank? How do you know that they would get any food? Very easy to label when you don't even know the correct full circumstances - is the Tory way!!! BTW I agree with the "bedroom" tax but also believe that there are certain circumstances in which it has to be waived - under the current procedures the situations I am thinking of are NOT being waived which is wrong - and what I am thinking are on medical grounds where the use of a "spare" room is very much required.

If you read my post, I spent time interacting with the people, this means I spent time talking (maybe BWFC71 should spend time reading) and they did show me the bag of food that they had been given, Rice, pasta, tins of tomatoes, although the lady did assure me the lager and cigarettes were not from the food bank

boltonnut wrote:
The Lord will provide.

I wish the lord would provide, as an over worked under paid over stressed under valued member of society, I have to work 60-70 hours a week to earn money to provide for my family, and to pay taxes to pay for the over generous benefit system that is killing our country. I am one of the growing number of people who are getting P@@@@@ off with the state of the UK finances, and the workers are forced to pay for the scroungers and layabouts. Note to Mr Osborn in the budget next week CUT CUT CUT then CUT some more.

Agree this stupid phrase "bedroom tax" is becoming increasingly annoying. If you own a house and under occupy it then fine, that's your choice. If you live in social housing then the downside of heavily subsidised rentals is you have to make way for needy families if you are not fully occupying your house. That's not a "tax": it's equity and fairness.

Why should we keep supporting these inadequate people?

There will be a few genuine cases of need I am sure but the majority of these scroungers (if it`s free, then we`re entitiled is their philosophy.) are part of an underclass that is growing rapidly. They expect to be given things that the majority of us have worked for. They deserve nothing.

Many people today have only themselves to blame for being in debt as result of living beyond what they can afford.

Then when something goes wrong like losing a job, they cry poverty!

sunfun wrote:

boltonnut wrote:
The Lord will provide.

I wish the lord would provide, as an over worked under paid over stressed under valued member of society, I have to work 60-70 hours a week to earn money to provide for my family, and to pay taxes to pay for the over generous benefit system that is killing our country. I am one of the growing number of people who are getting P@@@@@ off with the state of the UK finances, and the workers are forced to pay for the scroungers and layabouts. Note to Mr Osborn in the budget next week CUT CUT CUT then CUT some more.

So those forced from the army due to Government cuts are scroungers?

Those forced from the police force due to Government cuts are scroungers?

Those forced from public services, on the understanding that the private sector will take them on, because of Government cuts are scroungers?

Those who were made unemployed due to the continued depression (not recession as currently offivially we are NOT in recession) are scroungers?

Those taking employment, majority of which are only part-time, and being paid the minimum wage which does not cover the cost of living and have to take benefits are scroungers?

So you are happy that everyone who claims a benefit of such sort are a scrounger - although that 99% of the population have paid for their benefits through paying National Insurance and other taxes?

The UK finances are a problem created by the last 2 Governments and the current government have compunded the down-turn by creating mass-unemployment, not creating work, not investing in work and actually giving the top 3% of the population a tax reduction whilst the working class are taxed even more (they are more taxed now that what they have ever been in modern history!!!) - the deficit has shrunk but the borrowing has increased - all of their own making and not because of so-called scroungers (a phrase the Government have used to detract from the actual truth!!!)

stantheman133 wrote:
I'm with you SUNFUN, they are totally selfish. Must have a fag/must have a beer. Just don't think of there children or where the food is coming from.

Was going to start making a regular donation to the foodbank after reading about the foodbank in the press. Think i'll give it a miss after reading this. I aint paying for cigatettes and beer.

Hobsons choice - what would YOU choose.....

FOOD to help feed your children or ELECTRICITY to help stay warm, cook and cook little food you do have?

Thats the choice many "proper" people (aka 5 million of the 5.5 million unemployed - unofficial figures but takes into account those NOT legible for benefits) have to face?

BWFC71 wrote:
Hobsons choice - what would YOU choose..... FOOD to help feed your children or ELECTRICITY to help stay warm, cook and cook little food you do have? Thats the choice many "proper" people (aka 5 million of the 5.5 million unemployed - unofficial figures but takes into account those NOT legible for benefits) have to face?

Or you can manage your life, and very generous benefits in a responsible manor, if you are in poverty, you don’t need another tattoo, your kids don’t need the latest I pod or to have patterns shaved in there hear, you don’t need a sky tv or even tv (then you don’t need a tv licence) you cant afford to smoke or drink so don’t, and get a job.

sunfun wrote:
I HAD SOME RESPECT FOR THE FOODBANK, but not any more. The other day I was about to make a donation, but when I got to the church on Trafford street, I was quite frankly disgusted. Outside there was a group of people, men women and children, none of whom looked like they had seen soap in months, smoking there heads off; one woman was drinking a can of super strength larger, whilst holding the bag of food that she had collected. I interacted with the group, and was disgusted with there attitude, and there opinion seemed to be why pay at a supermarket when you can get it free. I am prepared to help people with a genuine need, but if they can afford to smoke and drink, then the donation will stay in the boot of my car

Not sure I believe this. The reason being that there are very few users of the food bank at present as it is still in it's infancy. Likely approved voucher holders were a maximum of 8 last month, so the idea that this "group" would have benefitted from the food bank just doesn't add up.

Love Bolton wrote:

sunfun wrote: I HAD SOME RESPECT FOR THE FOODBANK, but not any more. The other day I was about to make a donation, but when I got to the church on Trafford street, I was quite frankly disgusted. Outside there was a group of people, men women and children, none of whom looked like they had seen soap in months, smoking there heads off; one woman was drinking a can of super strength larger, whilst holding the bag of food that she had collected. I interacted with the group, and was disgusted with there attitude, and there opinion seemed to be why pay at a supermarket when you can get it free. I am prepared to help people with a genuine need, but if they can afford to smoke and drink, then the donation will stay in the boot of my car

Not sure I believe this. The reason being that there are very few users of the food bank at present as it is still in it's infancy. Likely approved voucher holders were a maximum of 8 last month, so the idea that this "group" would have benefitted from the food bank just doesn't add up.

Maximum users of 8 per day to clarify.

I hope that the debt advisory service connects with Hoot which is an excellent and ethical organisation with very low rates made to support people at their time of need rather than these awful money lending shops.

Love Bolton wrote:
I hope that the debt advisory service connects with Hoot which is an excellent and ethical organisation with very low rates made to support people at their time of need rather than these awful money lending shops.

Catch 22 this is, should the answer be to people who cannot manage their money make it easier to take out more loans?

hoboh2o wrote:

Love Bolton wrote: I hope that the debt advisory service connects with Hoot which is an excellent and ethical organisation with very low rates made to support people at their time of need rather than these awful money lending shops.

Catch 22 this is, should the answer be to people who cannot manage their money make it easier to take out more loans?

I agree with you Hoboh20.

There are times however when for example the washing machine breaks and you can choose to go to a laundrette which is an expensive option, or get yours repaired. These small loans can be funded by the door knocking Prudential who prey on the vulnerable with their massive percentage loans; Wonga etc on tv; the high street loan sharks; or preferably Hoot.
What I really like about Hoot is that you cannot be a borrower until you have been a saver, even at a modest amount, for a few months.
In any case, think a lot better than the alternatives personally.
Also don't really like the idea that people can potentially arrange CVAs quite quickly instead of working out payment plans - unless of course the situation is beyond reach.

Bad news that the council are having to underwrite Hoot's loans!

http://news.bbc.co.u
k/2/hi/business/1312
865.stm

Thanks Dobson73. It's an interesting point and article. I suppose in 2001,there was a lot of worry about this alternative style of banking, even with a significant amount of banking in the US being credit unions.
Yet many have continued to stand the test of time. I don't know, and your article doesn't reference, whether Bolton's is underwritten in 2013, but assuming it is, then I would still say that the direction of travel is good. The way in which local investment through savings are put to good use for our neighbours benefit in time of need is powerful and I think quite empowering. Each borrower not only has to commit to saving, they have to have demonstrated it over a period of time.
We all save a little in my household, and there is some satisfaction in that it will give local benefit rather than being lost in the anonymous banking system.