Let's get back on track - we launch campaign to reinstate our axed train services

The Bolton News: Passengers getting on a crowded train at Bolton station Passengers getting on a crowded train at Bolton station

TODAY The Bolton News launches a campaign demanding that transport bosses reinstate axed peak-hour carriages.

The Let’s Get Back On Track campaign is calling for a dramatic improvement to the town’s "cattle market" rail services.

This follows our report yesterday which revealed that from next week, First Trans-Pennine Express will run fewer services to and from Manchester — and that a busy morning commuter train will have its carriages reduced from six to just three.

Rail users in Bolton have told The Bolton News how they are already suffering due to overcrowded services and are dreading the changes coming into force from Sunday.

We are asking frustrated passengers to add their name to our petition — which we will then present to transport bosses.

Let’s Get Back On Track is being backed by Bolton’s three MPs and the town’s leading political figures.

MP David Crausby, who represents Bolton North East, has already voiced his concern at the overcrowding on Bolton rail services in a letter to the Secretary of State for Transport.

He said: “I will absolutely be backing this campaign — this is not something that we should take lying down.

“We can’t tolerate it and I would urge everyone to get in touch with The Bolton News and sign this petition. I will be signing it myself.”

Bolton South East MP Yasmin Qureshi will be another adding her name to our petition She said: “I am backing this one hundred per cent — I have raised this issue with train companies and will continue to fight it.”

Bolton West MP Julie Hilling added: “It is important for a local newspaper to stand up for issues like this and I think this petition is a great idea.”

Bolton Council’s political leaders have also pledged their support to the campaign, with council leader, Cllr Cliff Morris describing the situation as “nonsense”.

He said: “We have been asking for five years for the situation to be improved, so I will certainly be supporting the campaign — this is a really big issue for the people of Bolton and I will be asking our members on the Transport for Greater Manchester board to bring it up.”

Leader of the Conservative party in Bolton, David Greenhalgh said that Bolton is at risk of “being overlooked”.

He added: “We are one of the largest towns in the country with a lot of big investment here and to cut back on services and carriages sends out the wrong message to people and businesses — I completely support the campaign.”

Leader of the Liberal Democrats in Bolton, Roger Hayes, is a regular rail user and said the journey between Bolton and Manchester could be “horrendous”.

He said: “I am very much behind the campaign.”

To support the Let’s Get Back On Track campaign, simply sign the petition which is in our town centre offices and in shops and newsagents around Bolton.

Alternatively download your own petition here (Let's Get Back on Track petition.pdf) and collect signatures.

You can also sign an online petition on our website.

Forms can be picked up from The Bolton News office in the Wellsprings building next to the Town Hall.

Please return completed petitions to Let’s Get Back On Track, Editorial Department, The Bolton News, The Wellsprings, Civic Centre, Bolton, BL1 1AR.

If you would like to have a petition in your shop, call 01204 537239.

We will be presenting the petition to rail bosses and demanding action.

Comments (83)

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12:07pm Fri 6 Dec 13

oftbewildered2 says...

is there a time frame, or a target for how many signatures and what is going to happen to the petitions once they have been collected in?
is there a time frame, or a target for how many signatures and what is going to happen to the petitions once they have been collected in? oftbewildered2

12:16pm Fri 6 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

Problem here is that if it is successful when would the trains be re-instated. It is already too late for December and January as the next timetable changes, already announced, is in February whilst the summer timetable comes into effect in April when there are actually less people travelling!!!

This should have been statred at least 6 months ago when I and a couple of other were writing into the paper announcing what was going to be happening.

My question is, why has it atken this long for other travellers and the paper to listen and actrually start doing something when it is already too late for the winter timetable?

Either way I will put my name on the list, over the weekend!
Problem here is that if it is successful when would the trains be re-instated. It is already too late for December and January as the next timetable changes, already announced, is in February whilst the summer timetable comes into effect in April when there are actually less people travelling!!! This should have been statred at least 6 months ago when I and a couple of other were writing into the paper announcing what was going to be happening. My question is, why has it atken this long for other travellers and the paper to listen and actrually start doing something when it is already too late for the winter timetable? Either way I will put my name on the list, over the weekend! The Righteous One

12:45pm Fri 6 Dec 13

cliff4treasurer says...

Hang on a minute, We have the 3 so called "MP's admitting they have known there is a problem for years and even the fat controller (you'd think he had more pull?) telling us he has been saying for 5 years how bad it is and yet here we are with the change they have contributed to being a worse not better situation.
Does anybody else think like I do that this is now a case of politicians of all pretences jumping on any passing bandwagon knowing full we they can do sod all about it and there voice, like the ordinary punters ,counting for nothing with the people who make the decisions.
For once I probably agree with the righteous one here,it's too little to late and even this snooze paper is now "jumping on any passing bandwagon" as it really is too late no matter what.
Hang on a minute, We have the 3 so called "MP's admitting they have known there is a problem for years and even the fat controller (you'd think he had more pull?) telling us he has been saying for 5 years how bad it is and yet here we are with the change they have contributed to being a worse not better situation. Does anybody else think like I do that this is now a case of politicians of all pretences jumping on any passing bandwagon knowing full we they can do sod all about it and there voice, like the ordinary punters ,counting for nothing with the people who make the decisions. For once I probably agree with the righteous one here,it's too little to late and even this snooze paper is now "jumping on any passing bandwagon" as it really is too late no matter what. cliff4treasurer

12:56pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Kenipetwoman says...

Too little too late
Too little too late Kenipetwoman

1:12pm Fri 6 Dec 13

NOTnewsworthy says...

oftbewildered2 wrote:
is there a time frame, or a target for how many signatures and what is going to happen to the petitions once they have been collected in?
Do you need answers to these questions before you decide whether you will be signing the petition?
[quote][p][bold]oftbewildered2[/bold] wrote: is there a time frame, or a target for how many signatures and what is going to happen to the petitions once they have been collected in?[/p][/quote]Do you need answers to these questions before you decide whether you will be signing the petition? NOTnewsworthy

1:59pm Fri 6 Dec 13

steveG says...

Wasn't there a petition to keep the Market hall for local traders not long ago?.

How did that one end?.
Wasn't there a petition to keep the Market hall for local traders not long ago?. How did that one end?. steveG

2:04pm Fri 6 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP!
We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP! thomas222

2:30pm Fri 6 Dec 13

oftbewildered2 says...

NOTnewsworthy wrote:
oftbewildered2 wrote:
is there a time frame, or a target for how many signatures and what is going to happen to the petitions once they have been collected in?
Do you need answers to these questions before you decide whether you will be signing the petition?
no - petition signed; just want to know what is going to happen next.
[quote][p][bold]NOTnewsworthy[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]oftbewildered2[/bold] wrote: is there a time frame, or a target for how many signatures and what is going to happen to the petitions once they have been collected in?[/p][/quote]Do you need answers to these questions before you decide whether you will be signing the petition?[/p][/quote]no - petition signed; just want to know what is going to happen next. oftbewildered2

2:33pm Fri 6 Dec 13

temujin says...

Not just peak period.

Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined. temujin

2:47pm Fri 6 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

temujin wrote:
Not just peak period.

Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!!


And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
[quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North! The Righteous One

3:27pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Mike23 says...

Ahhhhh, the efficiency of the private sector!

I think Stephenson's Rocket had more carriages!

MPs & Council guilty of vote grabbing, Privately run firms guilty of operating a skewed business model. Government guilty of rolling out a framework which was designed for key individuals to become wealthy.

Only people who suffer are those who rely daily on a system which is woefully maintained.

How much is the CEO & FD paid?
Ahhhhh, the efficiency of the private sector! I think Stephenson's Rocket had more carriages! MPs & Council guilty of vote grabbing, Privately run firms guilty of operating a skewed business model. Government guilty of rolling out a framework which was designed for key individuals to become wealthy. Only people who suffer are those who rely daily on a system which is woefully maintained. How much is the CEO & FD paid? Mike23

3:44pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Old Boltonian says...

Trains from Bolton to manchester have always been rubbish! compared to other parts of the Greater Manchester region. I remember well, when I stared work as a teenager ion Manchester, getting the train each day at 8.25 from Kearsley to Salford Central station . Two carriages the norm, most people had to stand from at least Farnworth, often Bolton, all the way to town. In the two years I worked there, I never once got a seat. Always on the last minute, others in the the office just couldn't believe that trains from the Frozen North as they called it even then, were so infrequent, often late and so crowded. And all this is before privatisation, would you believe!
Trains from Bolton to manchester have always been rubbish! compared to other parts of the Greater Manchester region. I remember well, when I stared work as a teenager ion Manchester, getting the train each day at 8.25 from Kearsley to Salford Central station . Two carriages the norm, most people had to stand from at least Farnworth, often Bolton, all the way to town. In the two years I worked there, I never once got a seat. Always on the last minute, others in the the office just couldn't believe that trains from the Frozen North as they called it even then, were so infrequent, often late and so crowded. And all this is before privatisation, would you believe! Old Boltonian

3:48pm Fri 6 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

Old Boltonian wrote:
Trains from Bolton to manchester have always been rubbish! compared to other parts of the Greater Manchester region. I remember well, when I stared work as a teenager ion Manchester, getting the train each day at 8.25 from Kearsley to Salford Central station . Two carriages the norm, most people had to stand from at least Farnworth, often Bolton, all the way to town. In the two years I worked there, I never once got a seat. Always on the last minute, others in the the office just couldn't believe that trains from the Frozen North as they called it even then, were so infrequent, often late and so crowded. And all this is before privatisation, would you believe!
I do believe!
[quote][p][bold]Old Boltonian[/bold] wrote: Trains from Bolton to manchester have always been rubbish! compared to other parts of the Greater Manchester region. I remember well, when I stared work as a teenager ion Manchester, getting the train each day at 8.25 from Kearsley to Salford Central station . Two carriages the norm, most people had to stand from at least Farnworth, often Bolton, all the way to town. In the two years I worked there, I never once got a seat. Always on the last minute, others in the the office just couldn't believe that trains from the Frozen North as they called it even then, were so infrequent, often late and so crowded. And all this is before privatisation, would you believe![/p][/quote]I do believe! The Righteous One

4:16pm Fri 6 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal? thomas222

4:26pm Fri 6 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto.

Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party.

In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs!
I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs! The Righteous One

4:38pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Wigan Trotter says...

Most of the problems are with the Northern Rail franchise and their running or should I say not running trains with out of date two coach Class 142 Pacers and Class 150 Sprinters.

The Transpennine franchise run the newer Class 185 three coach Pennine Units on Airport Routes and their services are getting overfilled as a result of Northern Rail having not enough trains on their more local routes.
Most of the problems are with the Northern Rail franchise and their running or should I say not running trains with out of date two coach Class 142 Pacers and Class 150 Sprinters. The Transpennine franchise run the newer Class 185 three coach Pennine Units on Airport Routes and their services are getting overfilled as a result of Northern Rail having not enough trains on their more local routes. Wigan Trotter

4:45pm Fri 6 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

Wigan Trotter wrote:
Most of the problems are with the Northern Rail franchise and their running or should I say not running trains with out of date two coach Class 142 Pacers and Class 150 Sprinters.

The Transpennine franchise run the newer Class 185 three coach Pennine Units on Airport Routes and their services are getting overfilled as a result of Northern Rail having not enough trains on their more local routes.
EXACTLY!
[quote][p][bold]Wigan Trotter[/bold] wrote: Most of the problems are with the Northern Rail franchise and their running or should I say not running trains with out of date two coach Class 142 Pacers and Class 150 Sprinters. The Transpennine franchise run the newer Class 185 three coach Pennine Units on Airport Routes and their services are getting overfilled as a result of Northern Rail having not enough trains on their more local routes.[/p][/quote]EXACTLY! The Righteous One

4:49pm Fri 6 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!! The Righteous One

5:41pm Fri 6 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs!
So you support the anti muslim partys then?
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs![/p][/quote]So you support the anti muslim partys then? thomas222

5:45pm Fri 6 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue? thomas222

6:07pm Fri 6 Dec 13

JJKBolton says...

I used to travel by train to Manchester a couple of years ago and distinctly recall announcements made by snooty nosed FTP Express staff apologizing on the trains PA system at Trinity Street stop for Bolton passengers causing overcrowding on THEIR TRAINS !!!!!!!!!! What a downright bloody cheek.

If that is how First Group feel about the decent people of Bolton trying to get to work in a morning, then good riddance to bad rubbish, take your fancy trains and buses and sling your hook as far away from Bolton as you can get. If this kind of passenger treatment happened in the south (The City of London) the likes of Cameron, Clegg and all the other hangers on would have dealt with this bunch of asset stripping cowboys in suits years ago.

Bolton is being treated like a door mat and is actually being punished for complaining about what should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE - take note Councillors and MPs.

We should have gone directly from steam to electric in one step, but what else can you expect when we have the short term mentality accountants running and ruining the country?
I used to travel by train to Manchester a couple of years ago and distinctly recall announcements made by snooty nosed FTP Express staff apologizing on the trains PA system at Trinity Street stop for Bolton passengers causing overcrowding on THEIR TRAINS !!!!!!!!!! What a downright bloody cheek. If that is how First Group feel about the decent people of Bolton trying to get to work in a morning, then good riddance to bad rubbish, take your fancy trains and buses and sling your hook as far away from Bolton as you can get. If this kind of passenger treatment happened in the south (The City of London) the likes of Cameron, Clegg and all the other hangers on would have dealt with this bunch of asset stripping cowboys in suits years ago. Bolton is being treated like a door mat and is actually being punished for complaining about what should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE - take note Councillors and MPs. We should have gone directly from steam to electric in one step, but what else can you expect when we have the short term mentality accountants running and ruining the country? JJKBolton

7:48pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Don Kiddick says...

Doesn't that bloke who had his Xmas lights nicked look really p****d off!
Doesn't that bloke who had his Xmas lights nicked look really p****d off! Don Kiddick

7:59pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

thomas222 wrote:
We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP!
The people responsible are the voters of Bolton, who at every local election vote Labour. Therefore we can be overlooked, firstly by a Tory Government who know they ain't going to get elected here and by Labour who know they don't have to work for their vote.
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP![/p][/quote]The people responsible are the voters of Bolton, who at every local election vote Labour. Therefore we can be overlooked, firstly by a Tory Government who know they ain't going to get elected here and by Labour who know they don't have to work for their vote. Ernagy2

8:13pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

It is very disappointing that yet again Bolton loses more services when it really needs more trains and a better public transport system. The situation is not going to change though as spare time will be needed to electrify the line between Bolton and Manchester. This is going to be a nightmare for engineers over the next few years and it is inevitable that there will be Rail Replacement Buses in a regular basis anyway as the engineering works will be complex.

The solution should have been thought about years ago and one possible solution could have been running a Tram from Bolton station, through up Thynne Street onto Lever street and connecting up the old rail line that runs past Royal Bolton hospital and connecting that line with the tram line at Eccles. This would have taken the pressure of Bolton Station as resident in the South of Bolton wouldn't have to come into the centre of Town, provide possible jobs in that part of the Town and opened up Bolton's shopping to people in Eccles and Walkden, plus many other benefits.

Unfortunately we don't have a forward thinking Council. This is because the town votes Labour at local elections. That's why the Town is going backwards.
It is very disappointing that yet again Bolton loses more services when it really needs more trains and a better public transport system. The situation is not going to change though as spare time will be needed to electrify the line between Bolton and Manchester. This is going to be a nightmare for engineers over the next few years and it is inevitable that there will be Rail Replacement Buses in a regular basis anyway as the engineering works will be complex. The solution should have been thought about years ago and one possible solution could have been running a Tram from Bolton station, through up Thynne Street onto Lever street and connecting up the old rail line that runs past Royal Bolton hospital and connecting that line with the tram line at Eccles. This would have taken the pressure of Bolton Station as resident in the South of Bolton wouldn't have to come into the centre of Town, provide possible jobs in that part of the Town and opened up Bolton's shopping to people in Eccles and Walkden, plus many other benefits. Unfortunately we don't have a forward thinking Council. This is because the town votes Labour at local elections. That's why the Town is going backwards. Ernagy2

8:37pm Fri 6 Dec 13

127001 says...

I think I've seen more train carriages on an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine than what we have now.

This farce has been going on for YEARS (decade even). I remember the BEN writing articles on this very subject and yet not much came from it.

I do hope that there is never a serious accident because most passengers would not stand a chance with how they are packed in like a tin of sardines.
I think I've seen more train carriages on an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine than what we have now. This farce has been going on for YEARS (decade even). I remember the BEN writing articles on this very subject and yet not much came from it. I do hope that there is never a serious accident because most passengers would not stand a chance with how they are packed in like a tin of sardines. 127001

8:46pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

127001 wrote:
I think I've seen more train carriages on an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine than what we have now.

This farce has been going on for YEARS (decade even). I remember the BEN writing articles on this very subject and yet not much came from it.

I do hope that there is never a serious accident because most passengers would not stand a chance with how they are packed in like a tin of sardines.
Shows how the transport system hasn't been able to cope with the increased demand. Though I can remember trains in the late seventies that were running empty pre 8am as very few people other than students were getting on them. It's a success to get people using the train but the overcrowding needs sorting. Pressure needs to be put on our MP's but I'm afraid the people of Bolton should put their vote elsewhere for one term just to give the Labour party the kick up the back side they thoroughly deserve.
[quote][p][bold]127001[/bold] wrote: I think I've seen more train carriages on an episode of Thomas the Tank Engine than what we have now. This farce has been going on for YEARS (decade even). I remember the BEN writing articles on this very subject and yet not much came from it. I do hope that there is never a serious accident because most passengers would not stand a chance with how they are packed in like a tin of sardines.[/p][/quote]Shows how the transport system hasn't been able to cope with the increased demand. Though I can remember trains in the late seventies that were running empty pre 8am as very few people other than students were getting on them. It's a success to get people using the train but the overcrowding needs sorting. Pressure needs to be put on our MP's but I'm afraid the people of Bolton should put their vote elsewhere for one term just to give the Labour party the kick up the back side they thoroughly deserve. Ernagy2

8:51pm Fri 6 Dec 13

astleybridgepaul says...

FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards.

The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more.

Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times!

Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??
FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards. The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more. Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times! Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station?? astleybridgepaul

8:52pm Fri 6 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
thomas222 wrote: We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP!
The people responsible are the voters of Bolton, who at every local election vote Labour. Therefore we can be overlooked, firstly by a Tory Government who know they ain't going to get elected here and by Labour who know they don't have to work for their vote.
No they dont the only people who have caused it is the people who dont vote.
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP![/p][/quote]The people responsible are the voters of Bolton, who at every local election vote Labour. Therefore we can be overlooked, firstly by a Tory Government who know they ain't going to get elected here and by Labour who know they don't have to work for their vote.[/p][/quote]No they dont the only people who have caused it is the people who dont vote. thomas222

9:30pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

astleybridgepaul wrote:
FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards.

The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more.

Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times!

Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??
Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.
[quote][p][bold]astleybridgepaul[/bold] wrote: FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards. The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more. Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times! Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??[/p][/quote]Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller. Ernagy2

9:48pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Sagacity says...

Don't want to make you jealous but when I commuted from Bolton to Manchester in the 1960's, I used to catch the Belfast Boat Express which went from Heysham to Manchester, connecting with the overnight boat from Belfast. It arrived in Bolton just before 8-00am and was a steam hauled train of around 8 carriages. I always got a comfortable seat in one of the compartments as the carriages had a side corridor. The train was very reliable and was hardly ever late. How things have changed.
Don't want to make you jealous but when I commuted from Bolton to Manchester in the 1960's, I used to catch the Belfast Boat Express which went from Heysham to Manchester, connecting with the overnight boat from Belfast. It arrived in Bolton just before 8-00am and was a steam hauled train of around 8 carriages. I always got a comfortable seat in one of the compartments as the carriages had a side corridor. The train was very reliable and was hardly ever late. How things have changed. Sagacity

10:21pm Fri 6 Dec 13

Greasy Chip Butty says...

Aye those wer't days...
thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh.
So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...
Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer... Greasy Chip Butty

11:21pm Fri 6 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

Greasy Chip Butty wrote:
Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...
Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip!
[quote][p][bold]Greasy Chip Butty[/bold] wrote: Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...[/p][/quote]Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip! thomas222

2:34am Sat 7 Dec 13

Reality50 says...

As said earlier it is too little too late. Bolton as a town no longer has any clout with government and big business. The three Labour MP's are hardly big hitters in Westminster and Qureshi only cares about Palestine and Syria etc. Crausby and Hilling aren't much better and the council led by Morris is useless. We are seen as a backwater town nowadays on a level with the likes of Blackburn,Burnley and Rochdale. Being part of Greater Manchester does our town much harm as Westminster and big business see Bolton as just a satellite town of Manchester. We need to be back in Lancashire and be a big fish in a smaller pond as soon as possible. The trains issue has been ongoing for 15 years,it won't get any better and Manchester and its suburbs get all the transport cream while we get rickety Northern Rail rubbish.
As said earlier it is too little too late. Bolton as a town no longer has any clout with government and big business. The three Labour MP's are hardly big hitters in Westminster and Qureshi only cares about Palestine and Syria etc. Crausby and Hilling aren't much better and the council led by Morris is useless. We are seen as a backwater town nowadays on a level with the likes of Blackburn,Burnley and Rochdale. Being part of Greater Manchester does our town much harm as Westminster and big business see Bolton as just a satellite town of Manchester. We need to be back in Lancashire and be a big fish in a smaller pond as soon as possible. The trains issue has been ongoing for 15 years,it won't get any better and Manchester and its suburbs get all the transport cream while we get rickety Northern Rail rubbish. Reality50

9:54am Sat 7 Dec 13

ncc_22 says...

stop winging about it being too little too late and sign the petition if its bothering you so much. there is so much negativity going on in bolton. no wander not much gets done when your all sitting on your @R5ES complaining on here. if your so bothered be a bit more proactive. such anegative town. you even complain at good news too
stop winging about it being too little too late and sign the petition if its bothering you so much. there is so much negativity going on in bolton. no wander not much gets done when your all sitting on your @R5ES complaining on here. if your so bothered be a bit more proactive. such anegative town. you even complain at good news too ncc_22

10:17am Sat 7 Dec 13

jimiley says...

Petitions are no good.

What needs to be done is to get the Minister for Transport up here and travel on one of these rush-hour trains and then make him do it again.

If he does it he will have to say the service is not fit for the purpose, if he bottles out then that's proving it.
Petitions are no good. What needs to be done is to get the Minister for Transport up here and travel on one of these rush-hour trains and then make him do it again. If he does it he will have to say the service is not fit for the purpose, if he bottles out then that's proving it. jimiley

11:19am Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs!
So you support the anti muslim partys then?
It is not anti-muslin - that is the perception, but look at ALL their policies.

What they are asking are question such as the Burka and integration. It is not anti-Muslim, in fact 3 of the 2nd chamber members are actually Muslim!!!

You really ought to get your facts right before making a post and it is not just me saying it now - it is just showing your ignorance.
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs![/p][/quote]So you support the anti muslim partys then?[/p][/quote]It is not anti-muslin - that is the perception, but look at ALL their policies. What they are asking are question such as the Burka and integration. It is not anti-Muslim, in fact 3 of the 2nd chamber members are actually Muslim!!! You really ought to get your facts right before making a post and it is not just me saying it now - it is just showing your ignorance. BWFC71

11:35am Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Reality50 wrote:
As said earlier it is too little too late. Bolton as a town no longer has any clout with government and big business. The three Labour MP's are hardly big hitters in Westminster and Qureshi only cares about Palestine and Syria etc. Crausby and Hilling aren't much better and the council led by Morris is useless. We are seen as a backwater town nowadays on a level with the likes of Blackburn,Burnley and Rochdale. Being part of Greater Manchester does our town much harm as Westminster and big business see Bolton as just a satellite town of Manchester. We need to be back in Lancashire and be a big fish in a smaller pond as soon as possible. The trains issue has been ongoing for 15 years,it won't get any better and Manchester and its suburbs get all the transport cream while we get rickety Northern Rail rubbish.
Lancashire means nothing. They have much greater cuts than what Bolton has had over the same period. In fact in terms of public transport it has been completely decimated in Lancashire with virtually no evening or Sunday services anymore - again in terms of public transport out of over 1000 routes that had evenings and Sunday services less than 6 years ago only 50 still exist!!!
For Westminster Lancashire means Preston and Lancaster. You have to remember that Lancashire no longer governs Blackburn or Blackpool and services and provisions in those backwaters have been reduced much more than in Bolton and council taxes have risen higher than in Bolton.

Being a big fish in a small pond would do Bolton no favours whatsoever. Preston is the administration of Lancashire and do you honestly think Preston would give two hootss about Bolton?

Again with Lancashire it I far more expensive to use public transport than in Greater Manchester and it is more infrequent. Why do you think people from Edgworth drive don to Bromley Cross? Because it is much cheaper than catching a train from Entwistle. Once you go over the county boundary the subsidy that TfGM gives to Northern rail disappears and then it is purely Northern rail prices which are much higher !!!! Then look as the buses in Blackburn they have replaced the 537 Edgworth to Bolton with route 37 Darwen to Bromley Cross Station but instead of hourly it only operates 4 times a day and doesn't operate in the evenings, Sundays or even on Saturdays!!!!

Bolton's more recent golden era was whilst we have been part of Greater Manchester - the 1980's and 1990's!!! You cannot blame being in one county or another because of the ineptness of the councillors. No matter which county we are in we would still have the same councillors so how much a better position would Bolton be in - NONE, in fact in a much worse position because of no subsidies on transport, higher council tax and even less provisions!!!

I know there are some that hark back into history and wish that progress had never happened but the fact remains we are actually in a better position now, even with our current crop of councillors, than if we had stayed in Lancashire who are cutting costs left right and centre and they don't even have a Traffic Police division anymore to save costs!!!
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: As said earlier it is too little too late. Bolton as a town no longer has any clout with government and big business. The three Labour MP's are hardly big hitters in Westminster and Qureshi only cares about Palestine and Syria etc. Crausby and Hilling aren't much better and the council led by Morris is useless. We are seen as a backwater town nowadays on a level with the likes of Blackburn,Burnley and Rochdale. Being part of Greater Manchester does our town much harm as Westminster and big business see Bolton as just a satellite town of Manchester. We need to be back in Lancashire and be a big fish in a smaller pond as soon as possible. The trains issue has been ongoing for 15 years,it won't get any better and Manchester and its suburbs get all the transport cream while we get rickety Northern Rail rubbish.[/p][/quote]Lancashire means nothing. They have much greater cuts than what Bolton has had over the same period. In fact in terms of public transport it has been completely decimated in Lancashire with virtually no evening or Sunday services anymore - again in terms of public transport out of over 1000 routes that had evenings and Sunday services less than 6 years ago only 50 still exist!!! For Westminster Lancashire means Preston and Lancaster. You have to remember that Lancashire no longer governs Blackburn or Blackpool and services and provisions in those backwaters have been reduced much more than in Bolton and council taxes have risen higher than in Bolton. Being a big fish in a small pond would do Bolton no favours whatsoever. Preston is the administration of Lancashire and do you honestly think Preston would give two hootss about Bolton? Again with Lancashire it I far more expensive to use public transport than in Greater Manchester and it is more infrequent. Why do you think people from Edgworth drive don to Bromley Cross? Because it is much cheaper than catching a train from Entwistle. Once you go over the county boundary the subsidy that TfGM gives to Northern rail disappears and then it is purely Northern rail prices which are much higher !!!! Then look as the buses in Blackburn they have replaced the 537 Edgworth to Bolton with route 37 Darwen to Bromley Cross Station but instead of hourly it only operates 4 times a day and doesn't operate in the evenings, Sundays or even on Saturdays!!!! Bolton's more recent golden era was whilst we have been part of Greater Manchester - the 1980's and 1990's!!! You cannot blame being in one county or another because of the ineptness of the councillors. No matter which county we are in we would still have the same councillors so how much a better position would Bolton be in - NONE, in fact in a much worse position because of no subsidies on transport, higher council tax and even less provisions!!! I know there are some that hark back into history and wish that progress had never happened but the fact remains we are actually in a better position now, even with our current crop of councillors, than if we had stayed in Lancashire who are cutting costs left right and centre and they don't even have a Traffic Police division anymore to save costs!!! BWFC71

11:43am Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Bolton, Greater Manchester to Bromley Cross, Greater Manchester (both in Greater Manchester)
Return £1.90
two singles £ 3.60

Bolton, Greater Manchester to Entwistle, Lancashire (next stop up from Bromley Cross, only 5 minutes away) but in Lancashire
Return: £3.80
Two Singles £6.80


Or even

Bolton, Greater Manchester to Blackrod, Greater Manchester
Return: £3.20
Two singles: £6.20

Bolton, Greater Manchester to Adlington, Lancashire (next stop up from Blackrod)
Return: £5.40
Two singles; £9.20

In each case the station in Lancashire is about 5 minutes away from their nearest station in Greater Manchester. Why do you think so many people from the outlying Lancashire suburbs drive to their nearest Greater Manchester station - because of the subsidies and cheaper prices!!!
Bolton, Greater Manchester to Bromley Cross, Greater Manchester (both in Greater Manchester) Return £1.90 two singles £ 3.60 Bolton, Greater Manchester to Entwistle, Lancashire (next stop up from Bromley Cross, only 5 minutes away) but in Lancashire Return: £3.80 Two Singles £6.80 Or even Bolton, Greater Manchester to Blackrod, Greater Manchester Return: £3.20 Two singles: £6.20 Bolton, Greater Manchester to Adlington, Lancashire (next stop up from Blackrod) Return: £5.40 Two singles; £9.20 In each case the station in Lancashire is about 5 minutes away from their nearest station in Greater Manchester. Why do you think so many people from the outlying Lancashire suburbs drive to their nearest Greater Manchester station - because of the subsidies and cheaper prices!!! BWFC71

11:44am Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Above post the prices are direct from the Northern rail website
www.northernrail.org
Above post the prices are direct from the Northern rail website www.northernrail.org BWFC71

11:47am Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
Greasy Chip Butty wrote:
Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...
Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip!
You like UKIP and you say it took Labour over 50 years before a Westminster MP, when in fact it only about 15 years and 23 years to help form a coalition!!!!

Now lets look at UKIP....... Formed in 1993 and still has NO Westminster MP after 20 years. It seems to be lagging Labour as you seem to want to compare the two parties fro a founding point of view!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Greasy Chip Butty[/bold] wrote: Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...[/p][/quote]Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip![/p][/quote]You like UKIP and you say it took Labour over 50 years before a Westminster MP, when in fact it only about 15 years and 23 years to help form a coalition!!!! Now lets look at UKIP....... Formed in 1993 and still has NO Westminster MP after 20 years. It seems to be lagging Labour as you seem to want to compare the two parties fro a founding point of view! BWFC71

12:06pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
astleybridgepaul wrote:
FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards.

The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more.

Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times!

Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??
Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.
The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services!

The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!!
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]astleybridgepaul[/bold] wrote: FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards. The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more. Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times! Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??[/p][/quote]Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.[/p][/quote]The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services! The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!! BWFC71

12:15pm Sat 7 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
Greasy Chip Butty wrote: Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...
Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip!
You like UKIP and you say it took Labour over 50 years before a Westminster MP, when in fact it only about 15 years and 23 years to help form a coalition!!!! Now lets look at UKIP....... Formed in 1993 and still has NO Westminster MP after 20 years. It seems to be lagging Labour as you seem to want to compare the two parties fro a founding point of view!
Try your best to slag off but as the polls show your words are falling on deaf ears as the immigration/eu bubble has finally burst. The mass majority of people in this country have had enough of it and ukip will damage them all in the euro elections and later in the general.I have the courage to admit my support...... Who do you support or is it top secret?
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Greasy Chip Butty[/bold] wrote: Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...[/p][/quote]Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip![/p][/quote]You like UKIP and you say it took Labour over 50 years before a Westminster MP, when in fact it only about 15 years and 23 years to help form a coalition!!!! Now lets look at UKIP....... Formed in 1993 and still has NO Westminster MP after 20 years. It seems to be lagging Labour as you seem to want to compare the two parties fro a founding point of view![/p][/quote]Try your best to slag off but as the polls show your words are falling on deaf ears as the immigration/eu bubble has finally burst. The mass majority of people in this country have had enough of it and ukip will damage them all in the euro elections and later in the general.I have the courage to admit my support...... Who do you support or is it top secret? thomas222

12:17pm Sat 7 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote: I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs!
So you support the anti muslim partys then?
It is not anti-muslin - that is the perception, but look at ALL their policies. What they are asking are question such as the Burka and integration. It is not anti-Muslim, in fact 3 of the 2nd chamber members are actually Muslim!!! You really ought to get your facts right before making a post and it is not just me saying it now - it is just showing your ignorance.
classed as a anti islamic party google and see !. Its all there. ; )
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs![/p][/quote]So you support the anti muslim partys then?[/p][/quote]It is not anti-muslin - that is the perception, but look at ALL their policies. What they are asking are question such as the Burka and integration. It is not anti-Muslim, in fact 3 of the 2nd chamber members are actually Muslim!!! You really ought to get your facts right before making a post and it is not just me saying it now - it is just showing your ignorance.[/p][/quote]classed as a anti islamic party google and see !. Its all there. ; ) thomas222

12:18pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

JJKBolton wrote:
I used to travel by train to Manchester a couple of years ago and distinctly recall announcements made by snooty nosed FTP Express staff apologizing on the trains PA system at Trinity Street stop for Bolton passengers causing overcrowding on THEIR TRAINS !!!!!!!!!! What a downright bloody cheek.

If that is how First Group feel about the decent people of Bolton trying to get to work in a morning, then good riddance to bad rubbish, take your fancy trains and buses and sling your hook as far away from Bolton as you can get. If this kind of passenger treatment happened in the south (The City of London) the likes of Cameron, Clegg and all the other hangers on would have dealt with this bunch of asset stripping cowboys in suits years ago.

Bolton is being treated like a door mat and is actually being punished for complaining about what should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE - take note Councillors and MPs.

We should have gone directly from steam to electric in one step, but what else can you expect when we have the short term mentality accountants running and ruining the country?
Totally agreed - that is what the most of Europe did and after living in The Netherlands for over 6 years and experiencing how public transport should be done the UK ought to be fully ashamed.

We have a two-tier transport law - one for Greater London and one for outside Greater London and all the time Greater London is favoured more than anywhere else in the country because London is seen as the doorstep to the world - London is supposedly the only city in the UK that foreigners go to visit!!!

What needs to happen is something similar to The Netherlands - fully integrate the transport remove cash for most journeys and introduce a nationwide chip-card (similar to the Oyster Card which was originally tested in Greater Manchester but because the transport companies didn't want it GMPTE withdrew it and TfL picked it up!!!!), and have once centrally controlled price which the companies can vary by 0.5% either way and that the centralised company should be based in the middle of the country and be a not-for-profit organisation which then franchises groups of routes out - like in London and The Netherlands.

But for that to happen the law needs to change and our MPs are not that bothered otherwise they would be pushing for a change in the law!
[quote][p][bold]JJKBolton[/bold] wrote: I used to travel by train to Manchester a couple of years ago and distinctly recall announcements made by snooty nosed FTP Express staff apologizing on the trains PA system at Trinity Street stop for Bolton passengers causing overcrowding on THEIR TRAINS !!!!!!!!!! What a downright bloody cheek. If that is how First Group feel about the decent people of Bolton trying to get to work in a morning, then good riddance to bad rubbish, take your fancy trains and buses and sling your hook as far away from Bolton as you can get. If this kind of passenger treatment happened in the south (The City of London) the likes of Cameron, Clegg and all the other hangers on would have dealt with this bunch of asset stripping cowboys in suits years ago. Bolton is being treated like a door mat and is actually being punished for complaining about what should NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE - take note Councillors and MPs. We should have gone directly from steam to electric in one step, but what else can you expect when we have the short term mentality accountants running and ruining the country?[/p][/quote]Totally agreed - that is what the most of Europe did and after living in The Netherlands for over 6 years and experiencing how public transport should be done the UK ought to be fully ashamed. We have a two-tier transport law - one for Greater London and one for outside Greater London and all the time Greater London is favoured more than anywhere else in the country because London is seen as the doorstep to the world - London is supposedly the only city in the UK that foreigners go to visit!!! What needs to happen is something similar to The Netherlands - fully integrate the transport remove cash for most journeys and introduce a nationwide chip-card (similar to the Oyster Card which was originally tested in Greater Manchester but because the transport companies didn't want it GMPTE withdrew it and TfL picked it up!!!!), and have once centrally controlled price which the companies can vary by 0.5% either way and that the centralised company should be based in the middle of the country and be a not-for-profit organisation which then franchises groups of routes out - like in London and The Netherlands. But for that to happen the law needs to change and our MPs are not that bothered otherwise they would be pushing for a change in the law! BWFC71

12:19pm Sat 7 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

ncc_22 wrote:
stop winging about it being too little too late and sign the petition if its bothering you so much. there is so much negativity going on in bolton. no wander not much gets done when your all sitting on your @R5ES complaining on here. if your so bothered be a bit more proactive. such anegative town. you even complain at good news too
Give me a positive i can comment about..... If you can, just one will be hard to find....
[quote][p][bold]ncc_22[/bold] wrote: stop winging about it being too little too late and sign the petition if its bothering you so much. there is so much negativity going on in bolton. no wander not much gets done when your all sitting on your @R5ES complaining on here. if your so bothered be a bit more proactive. such anegative town. you even complain at good news too[/p][/quote]Give me a positive i can comment about..... If you can, just one will be hard to find.... thomas222

12:34pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Browny91 says...

Nothing will change until there is a serious accident or worse.
Nothing will change until there is a serious accident or worse. Browny91

1:11pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote: I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs!
So you support the anti muslim partys then?
It is not anti-muslin - that is the perception, but look at ALL their policies. What they are asking are question such as the Burka and integration. It is not anti-Muslim, in fact 3 of the 2nd chamber members are actually Muslim!!! You really ought to get your facts right before making a post and it is not just me saying it now - it is just showing your ignorance.
classed as a anti islamic party google and see !. Its all there. ; )
Who by?

Now if you really want to know the party, then read their manifesto!!!!

- Hard punishment of violence against Jews and the LGBT community
- Recording ethnicity for all Dutch citizens.
- No Coffee Shops within a radius of at least 1 kilometer from schools
- Active repatriation of criminals of foreign citizenship and Dutch nationals originating from the Netherlands Antilles
- Deportation of criminals having foreign nationality or multiple citizenship back to their country of origin, after a prison sentence
- Removal of resources from anti-climate change programmes, development aid and immigration services
- Forbid "gender apartheid"
- General Pension (AOW) age must stay 65
- Governmental communication to be exclusively in Dutch or Frisian
- Dutch language proficiency and a 10-year Dutch residency and work experience requirement for welfare assistance for non-EU citizens
- Constitutional protection of the dominance of the Judeo-Christian and humanistic culture of the Netherlands
- Choosing to defend the essential elements of Dutch culture: freedom of the LGBT community, as well as assured equality of men and women
- Repeal of anti-smoking legislation in bars
- Investment in more nuclear power plants and clean coal plants to reduce dependency on imported oil and because coal is cheaper
- No more flight tax or CO2-tax
- No more tax money to "(political) left" organizations
- Keeping track of the ethnicity of people who committed crimes
- Immediately expel "non-Dutchmen" out of the Netherlands when they commit a crime
- Taxes on all religious clothing that can be seen by others
- Ban on headscarves, and any other object that obscures the face and hair in any public function
- Support "African-Dutch" since it is Dutch heritage
- Stop all support and "propaganda" for Palestine and Palestinians
- No more windmills and fundings for durebillety or CO2 reduction, no more "fiscal Greening"


As you can see nothing about it being anti-Islam, but more fairer than what you think, isn't it?
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: I support none of them to be fair as no political Party is in line with my own beliefs and I will not vote for a party because I only believe one or two parts of their manifesto. Together with bits from each manifesto then this country stands a chance of being prosperous but individually, like now - there is no chance for ANY political party. In my last election, which was a General Election I voted for the PVV, in The Netherlands, as they had most of the policies that were in line with my beliefs![/p][/quote]So you support the anti muslim partys then?[/p][/quote]It is not anti-muslin - that is the perception, but look at ALL their policies. What they are asking are question such as the Burka and integration. It is not anti-Muslim, in fact 3 of the 2nd chamber members are actually Muslim!!! You really ought to get your facts right before making a post and it is not just me saying it now - it is just showing your ignorance.[/p][/quote]classed as a anti islamic party google and see !. Its all there. ; )[/p][/quote]Who by? Now if you really want to know the party, then read their manifesto!!!! - Hard punishment of violence against Jews and the LGBT community - Recording ethnicity for all Dutch citizens. - No Coffee Shops within a radius of at least 1 kilometer from schools - Active repatriation of criminals of foreign citizenship and Dutch nationals originating from the Netherlands Antilles - Deportation of criminals having foreign nationality or multiple citizenship back to their country of origin, after a prison sentence - Removal of resources from anti-climate change programmes, development aid and immigration services - Forbid "gender apartheid" - General Pension (AOW) age must stay 65 - Governmental communication to be exclusively in Dutch or Frisian - Dutch language proficiency and a 10-year Dutch residency and work experience requirement for welfare assistance for non-EU citizens - Constitutional protection of the dominance of the Judeo-Christian and humanistic culture of the Netherlands - Choosing to defend the essential elements of Dutch culture: freedom of the LGBT community, as well as assured equality of men and women - Repeal of anti-smoking legislation in bars - Investment in more nuclear power plants and clean coal plants to reduce dependency on imported oil and because coal is cheaper - No more flight tax or CO2-tax - No more tax money to "(political) left" organizations - Keeping track of the ethnicity of people who committed crimes - Immediately expel "non-Dutchmen" out of the Netherlands when they commit a crime - Taxes on all religious clothing that can be seen by others - Ban on headscarves, and any other object that obscures the face and hair in any public function - Support "African-Dutch" since it is Dutch heritage - Stop all support and "propaganda" for Palestine and Palestinians - No more windmills and fundings for durebillety or CO2 reduction, no more "fiscal Greening" As you can see nothing about it being anti-Islam, but more fairer than what you think, isn't it? BWFC71

1:12pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

PS that was taken from PVV's official website.
PS that was taken from PVV's official website. BWFC71

1:17pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
Greasy Chip Butty wrote: Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...
Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip!
You like UKIP and you say it took Labour over 50 years before a Westminster MP, when in fact it only about 15 years and 23 years to help form a coalition!!!! Now lets look at UKIP....... Formed in 1993 and still has NO Westminster MP after 20 years. It seems to be lagging Labour as you seem to want to compare the two parties fro a founding point of view!
Try your best to slag off but as the polls show your words are falling on deaf ears as the immigration/eu bubble has finally burst. The mass majority of people in this country have had enough of it and ukip will damage them all in the euro elections and later in the general.I have the courage to admit my support...... Who do you support or is it top secret?
Please quote your source - I need to see the data before I accept what anyone states from a statistic, as statistics can be skewed to whoever is paying for it! Therefore the whole source, the whole data and not just a snippet - please. If you cannot quote then please stop making things up and show the evidence!

I have shown evidence to contradict your so-called non-quotation, non-sourced statistics in other threads and yet you choose to ignore - why is that?

And as I have said previously to which you seemed to ignore is that I do not support ANY political Party in this country. It is my constitutional and democratic right to choose not to support anyone!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Greasy Chip Butty[/bold] wrote: Aye those wer't days... thomas222 seems to be talking his usual tosh. So the people who vote in a democracy are to blame for electing people and those who don't vote are also to blame. Can't win with this geezer...[/p][/quote]Bit like worrying about immigrants not getting benefits when they arrive here from people who say they are not here just to claim benefits but to graft yet the same people say that are obsessed with them not getting any keep banging on about them being here to work and not claim benefits!. Why make a fuss about it if its not a problem or a issue?. Labour you are finished! Come on ukip![/p][/quote]You like UKIP and you say it took Labour over 50 years before a Westminster MP, when in fact it only about 15 years and 23 years to help form a coalition!!!! Now lets look at UKIP....... Formed in 1993 and still has NO Westminster MP after 20 years. It seems to be lagging Labour as you seem to want to compare the two parties fro a founding point of view![/p][/quote]Try your best to slag off but as the polls show your words are falling on deaf ears as the immigration/eu bubble has finally burst. The mass majority of people in this country have had enough of it and ukip will damage them all in the euro elections and later in the general.I have the courage to admit my support...... Who do you support or is it top secret?[/p][/quote]Please quote your source - I need to see the data before I accept what anyone states from a statistic, as statistics can be skewed to whoever is paying for it! Therefore the whole source, the whole data and not just a snippet - please. If you cannot quote then please stop making things up and show the evidence! I have shown evidence to contradict your so-called non-quotation, non-sourced statistics in other threads and yet you choose to ignore - why is that? And as I have said previously to which you seemed to ignore is that I do not support ANY political Party in this country. It is my constitutional and democratic right to choose not to support anyone! BWFC71

1:24pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any! BWFC71

1:33pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

UKIP
0 seats in House of Commons = 0% (out of 650 seats)
3 seats in House of Lords = 0.4% (out of 724 seats) - no constitutional power in this House
9 seats in European Parliament (Bruuselss, Strasbourg/Luxembour
g) = 12% (out of 73 seats)
226 Local Government seats = 1% (out of 21,256 seats)

Yes they are doing well in the European Elections, so where will those MEP's go IF the UK leaves Parliament or will they just end up unemployed? Do you honestly think that Farage and co will give up the gravy train that is the European Parliament? Plus what will happen when Farage steps down? - he stepped down once before and membership plummeted so the Party is based around Farage, although he wasn't a founding member!

If you are going to talk politics isn't it better that you have a basic understanding of politics, or even better a more than basic understanding of the Party in which you say you support!
UKIP 0 seats in House of Commons = 0% (out of 650 seats) 3 seats in House of Lords = 0.4% (out of 724 seats) - no constitutional power in this House 9 seats in European Parliament (Bruuselss, Strasbourg/Luxembour g) = 12% (out of 73 seats) 226 Local Government seats = 1% (out of 21,256 seats) Yes they are doing well in the European Elections, so where will those MEP's go IF the UK leaves Parliament or will they just end up unemployed? Do you honestly think that Farage and co will give up the gravy train that is the European Parliament? Plus what will happen when Farage steps down? - he stepped down once before and membership plummeted so the Party is based around Farage, although he wasn't a founding member! If you are going to talk politics isn't it better that you have a basic understanding of politics, or even better a more than basic understanding of the Party in which you say you support! BWFC71

1:42pm Sat 7 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any![/p][/quote]Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; ) thomas222

1:58pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )
I am a minority?

I already am as I do not vote for any political party!

Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies?

Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why?


UKIP will never be a large force....

Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:-

Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand)
UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any![/p][/quote]Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )[/p][/quote]I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand) BWFC71

2:03pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Plus lets get this right the RespectPparty which was only formed in 2004 actually has a Westminster MP!!! How embarrassing is that for UKIP, considering they have never had a Westminster MP?
Plus lets get this right the RespectPparty which was only formed in 2004 actually has a Westminster MP!!! How embarrassing is that for UKIP, considering they have never had a Westminster MP? BWFC71

2:05pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

But lets gt thiss thread back on topic and using UKIP as well.

As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!
But lets gt thiss thread back on topic and using UKIP as well. As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! BWFC71

2:07pm Sat 7 Dec 13

George X says...

BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )
I am a minority?

I already am as I do not vote for any political party!

Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies?

Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why?


UKIP will never be a large force....

Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:-

Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand)
UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing.
What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration.
I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any![/p][/quote]Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )[/p][/quote]I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)[/p][/quote]Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing. What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration. I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days. George X

2:18pm Sat 7 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
But lets gt thiss thread back on topic and using UKIP as well. As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!
My my how strange to see someone so dismissive of ukip so obsessed with them wonder why i know why because you know they are a threat and all your talk of putting them down proves that,god man even mps in labour and connys are saying to and also the media so your words mean nothing.. ukip are out of the bottle and you cant put them back in it now...... the rise of the right is coming all over europe and its well documented.....
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: But lets gt thiss thread back on topic and using UKIP as well. As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source![/p][/quote]My my how strange to see someone so dismissive of ukip so obsessed with them wonder why i know why because you know they are a threat and all your talk of putting them down proves that,god man even mps in labour and connys are saying to and also the media so your words mean nothing.. ukip are out of the bottle and you cant put them back in it now...... the rise of the right is coming all over europe and its well documented..... thomas222

2:22pm Sat 7 Dec 13

thomas222 says...

George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )
I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing. What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration. I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.
The reason bwfc dont vote because he dont believe in a man made law and politics only islam so that means sharia law islams law... am i correct bwfc ? hahaha
[quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any![/p][/quote]Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )[/p][/quote]I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)[/p][/quote]Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing. What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration. I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.[/p][/quote]The reason bwfc dont vote because he dont believe in a man made law and politics only islam so that means sharia law islams law... am i correct bwfc ? hahaha thomas222

2:23pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )
I am a minority?

I already am as I do not vote for any political party!

Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies?

Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why?


UKIP will never be a large force....

Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:-

Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand)
UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing.
What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration.
I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.
Definitely not scared of anything - it seems you are in trying to push UKIP in EVERY news thread on this website! Why is that - membership not high enough? UKIP have lost every by-election that has been held in Bolton - are you scared its going to happen again? And anyway what is 1 UKIP councillor going to do with a Labour or Conservative or Liberal majority?

I know I am right as I have given gravitas to what I have typed here by given sources and not just empty quotes which could have come from anywhere, even the deepest parts of your little finger!!!

Why have you NEVER quoted a source to all your statistics and quotations?

Why do you not understand the real world where integration is more of a concern than immigration?

You can be a fly on my wall if you want! As I do not vote, because I do not support any of the parties or their policies, the result will not bother me in the slightest but under the constitution and democracy laws of the UK (which stems back to Grecian days) I can still have a say in politics.

As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!
[quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any![/p][/quote]Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )[/p][/quote]I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)[/p][/quote]Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing. What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration. I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.[/p][/quote]Definitely not scared of anything - it seems you are in trying to push UKIP in EVERY news thread on this website! Why is that - membership not high enough? UKIP have lost every by-election that has been held in Bolton - are you scared its going to happen again? And anyway what is 1 UKIP councillor going to do with a Labour or Conservative or Liberal majority? I know I am right as I have given gravitas to what I have typed here by given sources and not just empty quotes which could have come from anywhere, even the deepest parts of your little finger!!! Why have you NEVER quoted a source to all your statistics and quotations? Why do you not understand the real world where integration is more of a concern than immigration? You can be a fly on my wall if you want! As I do not vote, because I do not support any of the parties or their policies, the result will not bother me in the slightest but under the constitution and democracy laws of the UK (which stems back to Grecian days) I can still have a say in politics. As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! BWFC71

2:25pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
thomas222 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
temujin wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.
How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North!
Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?
BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!!
Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?
Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any!
Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )
I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)
Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing. What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration. I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.
The reason bwfc dont vote because he dont believe in a man made law and politics only islam so that means sharia law islams law... am i correct bwfc ? hahaha
No I believe in plenty of things that should be put right, but NONE of the British political parties give any policies that I agree with.

Anyway Sharia Law when I have a Jewish origin surname, even though I am Roman Catholic??? Plus why would I have voted for the PVV if I wanted Sharia Law? You really do not read my responses - if you did you would learn something!!!!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]temujin[/bold] wrote: Not just peak period. Last Saturday's Bromley Cross - Manchester service was a total disgrace - cattle trucks each way and people unable to board. If this continues throughout the Xmas period, Northern Rail should be fined.[/p][/quote]How can they be fined? They arer doi9ng as to what is stipulated in their franchise contract, unfortunately! This is where it has all gone wrong for traisn in the north west, Labour Government, at the time, giving out franchise contracts where the companies involved are not allowed to buy or rent any extra rolling stock above and beyond what has been given to them by the Department for Transport - and since the change in Government the situation hasn't changed therefore all 3 parties are at fault for not doing their job properly!!! And don't even think about voting for UKIP in the locals as what can they do, which none of the other Parties haven't done? - plus they haven't won a local election this year and have no representatives in Westminster and they only have 2 members in Brussels - so definitely not a force in politics!!!! Local at any of their manifesto's its all based on the South East and nothing for the North![/p][/quote]Mighty Oaks from little acorns grow is my reply to your comments regarding your ukip comments. It took the Labour Party 50yrs to get a MP elected to parliament where ukip at the next election will beat that by doing it in 18yrs only. They have 9 seats in the European parliament 3 members in the house of lords and 1 seat on the norther ireland assembly. It is polling well above the lib dems and will push them to the fourth political party at the next election. Both conny and labour MPs are afraid of the ukip charge as every one knows except it seems you and ther manifesto is for all in this country unlike the connys and labour who only look aftter the south of england... Who do you support or is that top secret pal?[/p][/quote]BTW you ought to check your facts out as The Labour Party was only founded in 1900 and created a coalition government with the Liberals in 1923 before actually having an outright Government just after the war!!!! Theefore it wasn't 50 years before a politician was elected to Westminster!!![/p][/quote]Why no mention regarding the number of ukip people in westminster then or were you wrong on that issue?[/p][/quote]Because there are NO UKIP MP's at Westminster and never have been any![/p][/quote]Not for long you are the minority....... You must be really proud of your political party but not enough to say who they are for fear or ridicule. ; )[/p][/quote]I am a minority? I already am as I do not vote for any political party! Can you not understand that I abstain from voting - given its my democratic and constitutional right to do so if I choose? I am proud to know the fact that I can choose whether to vote or not in any election. And until a political Party comes along where the majority of policies I support then I will continue not to vote - why should I vote for a party given the fact I do not support the majority of the policies? Let me ask you if you were allowed to vote or not vote and there were only 2 parties you could choose from - The Conservatives (Tories) and The Liberals (Whigs), like there before 1900 who would you vote for and why? UKIP will never be a large force.... Lets see memberships numbers (not voting numbers but membership numbers!) - all numbers are correct as off August 2013 according to official Party material:- Labour 184,000 (to the nearest thousand) Conservatives 139,000 (to the nearest thousand) Liberal Democrats 53,000 (to the nearest thousand) Green Party 41,000 (to the nearest thousand) Respect Party 34,000 (to the nearest thousand) UKIP 32,000 (to the nearest thousand)[/p][/quote]Why are you going on about membership numbers, it means nothing. What's the matter are you getting scared ? You are in a minority these days especially with your views on immigration. I would love to be a fly on your wall the day after the next few polling days.[/p][/quote]The reason bwfc dont vote because he dont believe in a man made law and politics only islam so that means sharia law islams law... am i correct bwfc ? hahaha[/p][/quote]No I believe in plenty of things that should be put right, but NONE of the British political parties give any policies that I agree with. Anyway Sharia Law when I have a Jewish origin surname, even though I am Roman Catholic??? Plus why would I have voted for the PVV if I wanted Sharia Law? You really do not read my responses - if you did you would learn something!!!! BWFC71

2:28pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

It seems to me, Thomas, that you are scared as you have now started to call me names - you have lost the argument and cannot think of anything else but name calling!! Shame as the debate was good. As I said, if I wanted Sharia Law why would I have voted for PVV whilst I lived in The Netherlands???

But once more I need to ask.....

As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!
It seems to me, Thomas, that you are scared as you have now started to call me names - you have lost the argument and cannot think of anything else but name calling!! Shame as the debate was good. As I said, if I wanted Sharia Law why would I have voted for PVV whilst I lived in The Netherlands??? But once more I need to ask..... As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! BWFC71

2:34pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
But lets gt thiss thread back on topic and using UKIP as well. As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!
My my how strange to see someone so dismissive of ukip so obsessed with them wonder why i know why because you know they are a threat and all your talk of putting them down proves that,god man even mps in labour and connys are saying to and also the media so your words mean nothing.. ukip are out of the bottle and you cant put them back in it now...... the rise of the right is coming all over europe and its well documented.....
Obsessivee, nope. I can talk the same depth of knowledge of any of the major political parties in the UK.

It is whats known as research and knowing politics and what each party actually wants and what are their hidden agendas

Its about time you took a serious interest in politics rather than skimming teeh surface, then you would learn something.

If I was only obsessive with UKIP, then how come I know the history of The Labour Party and also The Conservative Party (Tories) and the Liberal Democrats (Whigs) as well as knowing about The Green party and The Respect Party!!!

You easily ought to read my posts before responding as you are showing yourself up as an idiot saying something completely inaccurate when the proof is already there!!!

Rise of the right? Errrm many of the Right-winged Parties actually lost many of the elections over the last 3 years across Europe because of austerity measure they put in place!!! Again please do some research before commenting it really I making yourself look stupid!!!

As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: But lets gt thiss thread back on topic and using UKIP as well. As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source![/p][/quote]My my how strange to see someone so dismissive of ukip so obsessed with them wonder why i know why because you know they are a threat and all your talk of putting them down proves that,god man even mps in labour and connys are saying to and also the media so your words mean nothing.. ukip are out of the bottle and you cant put them back in it now...... the rise of the right is coming all over europe and its well documented.....[/p][/quote]Obsessivee, nope. I can talk the same depth of knowledge of any of the major political parties in the UK. It is whats known as research and knowing politics and what each party actually wants and what are their hidden agendas Its about time you took a serious interest in politics rather than skimming teeh surface, then you would learn something. If I was only obsessive with UKIP, then how come I know the history of The Labour Party and also The Conservative Party (Tories) and the Liberal Democrats (Whigs) as well as knowing about The Green party and The Respect Party!!! You easily ought to read my posts before responding as you are showing yourself up as an idiot saying something completely inaccurate when the proof is already there!!! Rise of the right? Errrm many of the Right-winged Parties actually lost many of the elections over the last 3 years across Europe because of austerity measure they put in place!!! Again please do some research before commenting it really I making yourself look stupid!!! As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! BWFC71

2:56pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!

So why no answer?

Because there is no answer.

Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy!
I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! So why no answer? Because there is no answer. Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy! BWFC71

3:09pm Sat 7 Dec 13

George X says...

BWFC71 wrote:
I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!

So why no answer?

Because there is no answer.

Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy!
Who cares !
It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !!
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! So why no answer? Because there is no answer. Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy![/p][/quote]Who cares ! It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !! George X

3:14pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!

So why no answer?

Because there is no answer.

Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy!
Who cares !
It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !!
People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!!

To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!!

Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!!
[quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! So why no answer? Because there is no answer. Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy![/p][/quote]Who cares ! It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !![/p][/quote]People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!! To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!! Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!! BWFC71

3:24pm Sat 7 Dec 13

George X says...

BWFC71 wrote:
George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!

So why no answer?

Because there is no answer.

Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy!
Who cares !
It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !!
People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!!

To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!!

Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!!
You're missing the point, the buses and trains don't work as it is !
You say ukip have no policies regarding public transport ? neither have ANY of the others !!!
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! So why no answer? Because there is no answer. Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy![/p][/quote]Who cares ! It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !![/p][/quote]People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!! To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!! Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!![/p][/quote]You're missing the point, the buses and trains don't work as it is ! You say ukip have no policies regarding public transport ? neither have ANY of the others !!! George X

3:29pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!

So why no answer?

Because there is no answer.

Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy!
Who cares !
It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !!
People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!!

To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!!

Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!!
You're missing the point, the buses and trains don't work as it is !
You say ukip have no policies regarding public transport ? neither have ANY of the others !!!
They don't but it is our job to make sure that they do have policies, by making noises such as this.

For public transport, and the road network, to work properly we need the law changing from the two-tier system we currently have, which favours Greater London, to one system to that which works more than adequately (in fact it works almost perfectly) like they have in The Netherlands!

Funny thing with UKIP is they are saying NO to the HS2 but they want to create brand new 200mph rail lines to Exeter and Newcastle!!!! Hypocritical or what???

Yet nothing about local transport
[quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! So why no answer? Because there is no answer. Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy![/p][/quote]Who cares ! It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !![/p][/quote]People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!! To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!! Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!![/p][/quote]You're missing the point, the buses and trains don't work as it is ! You say ukip have no policies regarding public transport ? neither have ANY of the others !!![/p][/quote]They don't but it is our job to make sure that they do have policies, by making noises such as this. For public transport, and the road network, to work properly we need the law changing from the two-tier system we currently have, which favours Greater London, to one system to that which works more than adequately (in fact it works almost perfectly) like they have in The Netherlands! Funny thing with UKIP is they are saying NO to the HS2 but they want to create brand new 200mph rail lines to Exeter and Newcastle!!!! Hypocritical or what??? Yet nothing about local transport BWFC71

4:14pm Sat 7 Dec 13

George X says...

BWFC71 wrote:
George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
George X wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source!

So why no answer?

Because there is no answer.

Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy!
Who cares !
It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !!
People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!!

To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!!

Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!!
You're missing the point, the buses and trains don't work as it is !
You say ukip have no policies regarding public transport ? neither have ANY of the others !!!
They don't but it is our job to make sure that they do have policies, by making noises such as this.

For public transport, and the road network, to work properly we need the law changing from the two-tier system we currently have, which favours Greater London, to one system to that which works more than adequately (in fact it works almost perfectly) like they have in The Netherlands!

Funny thing with UKIP is they are saying NO to the HS2 but they want to create brand new 200mph rail lines to Exeter and Newcastle!!!! Hypocritical or what???

Yet nothing about local transport
You keep going round in circles ? which is it Ukip or public transport, it's no wonder you drive everybody mad !!
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]George X[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: I posed this question....As you are a member of UKIP, which YOU have stated, could you please advise us all of UKIP's policy with regards to public transport, and more specifically the train (apart from the abolition of the HS2 which would now cost a few millions to stop) - and please quote your source! So why no answer? Because there is no answer. Well that hasn't won me or many thousands more over especially as these thousands will still be crammed into overcrowded carriages because UKIP have no policy![/p][/quote]Who cares ! It's not like the buses and trains have ever been any good, the point is we want a change and were gonna have it !![/p][/quote]People who catch buses and trains care. If a Party is voted in and there is not one policy to improve public transport, never mind roads and motorways, then the situation is just going to get worse!!! To get people to/from work one needs decent roads/motorways or public transport - it is the backbone of any recovery after a deep recession like we have had, which creates jobs and help people to work to increase the growth of the country!!! Change which equates to no changes is a backward step!!!![/p][/quote]You're missing the point, the buses and trains don't work as it is ! You say ukip have no policies regarding public transport ? neither have ANY of the others !!![/p][/quote]They don't but it is our job to make sure that they do have policies, by making noises such as this. For public transport, and the road network, to work properly we need the law changing from the two-tier system we currently have, which favours Greater London, to one system to that which works more than adequately (in fact it works almost perfectly) like they have in The Netherlands! Funny thing with UKIP is they are saying NO to the HS2 but they want to create brand new 200mph rail lines to Exeter and Newcastle!!!! Hypocritical or what??? Yet nothing about local transport[/p][/quote]You keep going round in circles ? which is it Ukip or public transport, it's no wonder you drive everybody mad !! George X

5:32pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

thomas222 wrote:
We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP!
George X

There is no circle, except in your mind!

It is direct correlation.... hence my inclusion of Thomas' original post in this thread as part of the example that it isn't a circle.



Transport is ****, needs law changing or improving, no policies by the government, change the governments mind or if close to General Election of which we are now (just over 12 months away) campaign other oliticaal parties to see what their policies are.

UKIP is just one but it was mentioned by Thomas very early on to vote UKIP for the better!!!! Thus shown that UKIP is not better, it is just as bad, if not worse due to the fact they are actually hypocrites!!!

See no circles whatsoever all posts in this thread are linked in a straight line!
[quote][p][bold]thomas222[/bold] wrote: We are not a Town in recession but a Town in a one way only decline and the people responsible are Bolton Council for not looking after our local needs over many issues and also over many years. The three MPs in the article are guilty of doing the same on a National level. They are to interested in getting involved with matters thousands of miles form these shores that has nothing to do with the people in this Town. All must go come on UKIP![/p][/quote]George X There is no circle, except in your mind! It is direct correlation.... hence my inclusion of Thomas' original post in this thread as part of the example that it isn't a circle. Transport is ****, needs law changing or improving, no policies by the government, change the governments mind or if close to General Election of which we are now (just over 12 months away) campaign other oliticaal parties to see what their policies are. UKIP is just one but it was mentioned by Thomas very early on to vote UKIP for the better!!!! Thus shown that UKIP is not better, it is just as bad, if not worse due to the fact they are actually hypocrites!!! See no circles whatsoever all posts in this thread are linked in a straight line! BWFC71

6:06pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
astleybridgepaul wrote:
FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards.

The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more.

Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times!

Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??
Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.
The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services!

The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!!
Some of the land has been built on but there is plenty of spare land around the Royal Bolton hospital and I'm sure a route could be designed and built. I don't doubt it would have it's challenges but I don't think we should put the idea of before it's begun. We need to challenge our Councillors and our Local MP's to do something. The direct line to Manchester has only a limited capacity in my view and with our Town growing all the time another idea needs to be thought about. I think it's still possible to get a line around the Royal Bolton hospital and think it needs to be seriously thought about. It could do a lot to reduce congestion in the Town and increase parking capacity as those living in the south of the Town wouldn't need to come into Bolton. There are plenty of merits to the move. There would be opposition from the local golfers though!
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]astleybridgepaul[/bold] wrote: FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards. The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more. Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times! Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??[/p][/quote]Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.[/p][/quote]The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services! The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!![/p][/quote]Some of the land has been built on but there is plenty of spare land around the Royal Bolton hospital and I'm sure a route could be designed and built. I don't doubt it would have it's challenges but I don't think we should put the idea of before it's begun. We need to challenge our Councillors and our Local MP's to do something. The direct line to Manchester has only a limited capacity in my view and with our Town growing all the time another idea needs to be thought about. I think it's still possible to get a line around the Royal Bolton hospital and think it needs to be seriously thought about. It could do a lot to reduce congestion in the Town and increase parking capacity as those living in the south of the Town wouldn't need to come into Bolton. There are plenty of merits to the move. There would be opposition from the local golfers though! Ernagy2

6:25pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Ernagy2 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
astleybridgepaul wrote:
FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards.

The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more.

Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times!

Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??
Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.
The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services!

The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!!
Some of the land has been built on but there is plenty of spare land around the Royal Bolton hospital and I'm sure a route could be designed and built. I don't doubt it would have it's challenges but I don't think we should put the idea of before it's begun. We need to challenge our Councillors and our Local MP's to do something. The direct line to Manchester has only a limited capacity in my view and with our Town growing all the time another idea needs to be thought about. I think it's still possible to get a line around the Royal Bolton hospital and think it needs to be seriously thought about. It could do a lot to reduce congestion in the Town and increase parking capacity as those living in the south of the Town wouldn't need to come into Bolton. There are plenty of merits to the move. There would be opposition from the local golfers though!
I totally agree with you that we need to challenge the transport bosses. But Metrolink will never come to Bolton, just as much as it will never go to Leigh to Wigan - hence building the guided busway between Leigh and Manchester!

What needs to be done is that ALL rail lines going north of Bolton (i.e. towards Wigan and South port and towards Blackburn and Clitheroe) are also electrified as that will create capacity on thee main line - but also for that to happen unfortunately, ultimately, would be the closure of Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley stations thus making Bolton the first/last station before Salford Crescent.

Another solution would be to use the old canal-bed which is still intact for more than 80% of the route. Not much work would be required to change the use of it and would be an extra couple of lines for the majority of the route - also, if one looks carefully there is already capacity for a 3rd and maybe 4th line between Agecroft and Salford and in some places the old track is still in place!!!
[quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]astleybridgepaul[/bold] wrote: FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards. The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more. Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times! Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??[/p][/quote]Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.[/p][/quote]The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services! The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!![/p][/quote]Some of the land has been built on but there is plenty of spare land around the Royal Bolton hospital and I'm sure a route could be designed and built. I don't doubt it would have it's challenges but I don't think we should put the idea of before it's begun. We need to challenge our Councillors and our Local MP's to do something. The direct line to Manchester has only a limited capacity in my view and with our Town growing all the time another idea needs to be thought about. I think it's still possible to get a line around the Royal Bolton hospital and think it needs to be seriously thought about. It could do a lot to reduce congestion in the Town and increase parking capacity as those living in the south of the Town wouldn't need to come into Bolton. There are plenty of merits to the move. There would be opposition from the local golfers though![/p][/quote]I totally agree with you that we need to challenge the transport bosses. But Metrolink will never come to Bolton, just as much as it will never go to Leigh to Wigan - hence building the guided busway between Leigh and Manchester! What needs to be done is that ALL rail lines going north of Bolton (i.e. towards Wigan and South port and towards Blackburn and Clitheroe) are also electrified as that will create capacity on thee main line - but also for that to happen unfortunately, ultimately, would be the closure of Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley stations thus making Bolton the first/last station before Salford Crescent. Another solution would be to use the old canal-bed which is still intact for more than 80% of the route. Not much work would be required to change the use of it and would be an extra couple of lines for the majority of the route - also, if one looks carefully there is already capacity for a 3rd and maybe 4th line between Agecroft and Salford and in some places the old track is still in place!!! BWFC71

6:45pm Sat 7 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
BWFC71 wrote:
Ernagy2 wrote:
astleybridgepaul wrote:
FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards.

The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more.

Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times!

Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??
Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.
The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services!

The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!!
Some of the land has been built on but there is plenty of spare land around the Royal Bolton hospital and I'm sure a route could be designed and built. I don't doubt it would have it's challenges but I don't think we should put the idea of before it's begun. We need to challenge our Councillors and our Local MP's to do something. The direct line to Manchester has only a limited capacity in my view and with our Town growing all the time another idea needs to be thought about. I think it's still possible to get a line around the Royal Bolton hospital and think it needs to be seriously thought about. It could do a lot to reduce congestion in the Town and increase parking capacity as those living in the south of the Town wouldn't need to come into Bolton. There are plenty of merits to the move. There would be opposition from the local golfers though!
I totally agree with you that we need to challenge the transport bosses. But Metrolink will never come to Bolton, just as much as it will never go to Leigh to Wigan - hence building the guided busway between Leigh and Manchester!

What needs to be done is that ALL rail lines going north of Bolton (i.e. towards Wigan and South port and towards Blackburn and Clitheroe) are also electrified as that will create capacity on thee main line - but also for that to happen unfortunately, ultimately, would be the closure of Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley stations thus making Bolton the first/last station before Salford Crescent.

Another solution would be to use the old canal-bed which is still intact for more than 80% of the route. Not much work would be required to change the use of it and would be an extra couple of lines for the majority of the route - also, if one looks carefully there is already capacity for a 3rd and maybe 4th line between Agecroft and Salford and in some places the old track is still in place!!!
All the lines North of Bolton will be electrified eventually - there'd be no point in just doing Bolton. Some of your suggestions are equally valid and are MP's Councillors and Transport bosses need to take account of these. We all know these guys and gals, though, if they can sit back and do nothing they will. Bolton has had, a very bad deal in my view since it became part of Greater Manchester after the early 70's. It has also not helped that there are three MP's in this town as when there was a proper marginal constituency the Town had a lot more investment as neither Tories or Labour could take the Town or granted. Now they do just that.

I think we should gather the suggestions together and push for all of it and see what comes out - yes I realise that the likelyhood of the tram scheme coming of is small, but, right now I would love to push the people who matter to do a feasibility study at the very least. I suspect though not much will happen and we will be left with an overcrowded set of trains. Still the General election is just around the corner
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ernagy2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]astleybridgepaul[/bold] wrote: FTPE only has a fleet of 51 3-car diesel units that are used on services from Bolton. They also have some 2-car diesel units but these are not used on services north of Manchester. They are getting 10 4-car electric units of which the first three are now in the UK. I was told specifically by a FPTE advisor that the ten diesel units displaced by the new electric units would in the main be used on the North East to Manchester Airport services but one train the 07.35 will be doubled to a 6-car unit.... but only from February onwards. The 07.35 is my regular train to catch to work and it has been very noticable that since around the end of September it has been arriving into Bolton nearly full and standing yet before that it was usually possible to get on and stand in the aisleways quite easily. The 07.55 Northern service has also increased too and likewise once upon a time it was possible to get on and stand in the aisleway but sadly no more. Another thing that riles me is the lousy train management by the signallers sending trains from Bolton towards. Take for example what happened yesterday Thursday. The 07.30 to Victoria ex Blackburn is 8 mins late, the 07.35 to Airport is 3 mins late. The Victoria train is a lower class or priority train (class 2 in technical terms) whereas the Airport is a higher class (1) service. Guess what train goes first? Yep they let the slower 8 mins late 07.30 go in front meaning that the 07.35 has to wait an extra 4-5 mins whilst the route is cleared to follow the other train down to Salford Crescent. Thus a knock-on effect of missed connections at Piccadilly. Network Rail obviously isn't bothered about getting things right and FPTE must wonder why they do it at times! Re Trams how about a spur off the Bury Metrolink line from Radcliffe along some of the old railway alignment then into town somewhere near the station and new bus station??[/p][/quote]Another good solution to help the congestion and provide and provide possible extra commercial and shopping activity in Bolton. Come on Bolton MP's and Councillors show some real gumption. We don't expect this over night but Bolton Station could easily run both Trams and Trains providing a better experience for the traveller.[/p][/quote]The railway line from Radcliffe to Bolton no longer exists - it has built upon at Bradley Fold, Darcy Lever and the High-level Cassandra Crossing at Darcy Lever is structurally unsafe to take any sort of traffic over it. In fact the old railway line at Darcy Lever has been filled in, built upon and is no longer owned by Network Rail. Plus why catch a tram that operates via Radcliffe which would take over 30 minutes to Manchester whilst it only takes up to 17 minutes by train!! Trams are not allowed, by law, to travel along the same lines as trains - could you imagine the congestion and all the hold-ups, especially for the limited stop and any possibly future inter-city services! The only possible route for the trams would be the old railway line that operated via Great Lever, Hospital and that way to Eccles and then Manchester - but much of the land has been built on and some of the land is now being worked on to create the guided bus-way for the resident of Leigh!!![/p][/quote]Some of the land has been built on but there is plenty of spare land around the Royal Bolton hospital and I'm sure a route could be designed and built. I don't doubt it would have it's challenges but I don't think we should put the idea of before it's begun. We need to challenge our Councillors and our Local MP's to do something. The direct line to Manchester has only a limited capacity in my view and with our Town growing all the time another idea needs to be thought about. I think it's still possible to get a line around the Royal Bolton hospital and think it needs to be seriously thought about. It could do a lot to reduce congestion in the Town and increase parking capacity as those living in the south of the Town wouldn't need to come into Bolton. There are plenty of merits to the move. There would be opposition from the local golfers though![/p][/quote]I totally agree with you that we need to challenge the transport bosses. But Metrolink will never come to Bolton, just as much as it will never go to Leigh to Wigan - hence building the guided busway between Leigh and Manchester! What needs to be done is that ALL rail lines going north of Bolton (i.e. towards Wigan and South port and towards Blackburn and Clitheroe) are also electrified as that will create capacity on thee main line - but also for that to happen unfortunately, ultimately, would be the closure of Moses Gate, Farnworth and Kearsley stations thus making Bolton the first/last station before Salford Crescent. Another solution would be to use the old canal-bed which is still intact for more than 80% of the route. Not much work would be required to change the use of it and would be an extra couple of lines for the majority of the route - also, if one looks carefully there is already capacity for a 3rd and maybe 4th line between Agecroft and Salford and in some places the old track is still in place!!![/p][/quote]All the lines North of Bolton will be electrified eventually - there'd be no point in just doing Bolton. Some of your suggestions are equally valid and are MP's Councillors and Transport bosses need to take account of these. We all know these guys and gals, though, if they can sit back and do nothing they will. Bolton has had, a very bad deal in my view since it became part of Greater Manchester after the early 70's. It has also not helped that there are three MP's in this town as when there was a proper marginal constituency the Town had a lot more investment as neither Tories or Labour could take the Town or granted. Now they do just that. I think we should gather the suggestions together and push for all of it and see what comes out - yes I realise that the likelyhood of the tram scheme coming of is small, but, right now I would love to push the people who matter to do a feasibility study at the very least. I suspect though not much will happen and we will be left with an overcrowded set of trains. Still the General election is just around the corner Ernagy2

7:38pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

Ernagy2, unfortunately as part of the "Hub" plans only the Manchester to Blackpool is being electrified and there are no plans to electrify either the Blackburn spur nor the Wigan spur but Network Rail are re-instating platform 5 at Bolton station. Yes there is a possibility of dual tracks on the Blackburn line but that has been put on a backburner due to Blackburn with Darwen not having the money to part-fund it (have to remember here that Blackburn with Darwen no longer comes under Transport for Lancashire), but the signalling are being improved whilst there is nothing regards to electrifying or re-signalling the Wigan line. If there was then they would also have to do the Salford Crescent to Wigan via Walkden as well but that is not in the plans either, not for at least the next 10 years anyway!!!

So we will just have to put up with rubbish diesel trains for the foreseeable future whilst we only get 2 trains an hour, both operated by Northern Rail, that will be electric (Hazel Grove to Preston and Stalyvegas to Blackpool) - not even the Airport to Blackpool, operated by Trans-pennine express, will become electric in the near to mid-term future!!!!

Plus we have the added insult that the two major franchises (Northern and TPE are up for renewal in 2016 so I expect them not to spend too much during the last couple of years either trying to rent extra stock or being able to buy extra stock!)
Ernagy2, unfortunately as part of the "Hub" plans only the Manchester to Blackpool is being electrified and there are no plans to electrify either the Blackburn spur nor the Wigan spur but Network Rail are re-instating platform 5 at Bolton station. Yes there is a possibility of dual tracks on the Blackburn line but that has been put on a backburner due to Blackburn with Darwen not having the money to part-fund it (have to remember here that Blackburn with Darwen no longer comes under Transport for Lancashire), but the signalling are being improved whilst there is nothing regards to electrifying or re-signalling the Wigan line. If there was then they would also have to do the Salford Crescent to Wigan via Walkden as well but that is not in the plans either, not for at least the next 10 years anyway!!! So we will just have to put up with rubbish diesel trains for the foreseeable future whilst we only get 2 trains an hour, both operated by Northern Rail, that will be electric (Hazel Grove to Preston and Stalyvegas to Blackpool) - not even the Airport to Blackpool, operated by Trans-pennine express, will become electric in the near to mid-term future!!!! Plus we have the added insult that the two major franchises (Northern and TPE are up for renewal in 2016 so I expect them not to spend too much during the last couple of years either trying to rent extra stock or being able to buy extra stock!) BWFC71

7:53pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

At this moment in time, as shown with the side-stepped discussion of UKIP, NONE of the Political Parties have any policies with regards to public transport and have any real definite pans apart from the HS2.

What we need first and foremost is to have the same laws as London where the Local Authority Quango's have the power rather than the individual bus companies, whilst Network Rail should be more of a Quango rather than a not-for-profit company. Basically there needs to be more regulation rather than the mess we have at this moment.
At this moment in time, as shown with the side-stepped discussion of UKIP, NONE of the Political Parties have any policies with regards to public transport and have any real definite pans apart from the HS2. What we need first and foremost is to have the same laws as London where the Local Authority Quango's have the power rather than the individual bus companies, whilst Network Rail should be more of a Quango rather than a not-for-profit company. Basically there needs to be more regulation rather than the mess we have at this moment. BWFC71

8:27pm Sat 7 Dec 13

astleybridgepaul says...

This thread seems to have wandered off course somewhere in the middle...... hmmm

Anyway the trams could be possible. Ok it wouldn't be the fastest way of getting to Manchester but then again neither are the tram routes to Ashton, East Didsbury or eventually Manchester Airport but they are more about making connections to places along those routes that in some cases didn't already have a good transport network. Yes there are some obstacles along the Radcliffe to Bolton route I never said there wasn't but again look at the recent Metrolink lines to see that such obstacles haven't caused any major problems.

It is a real shame that we don't really have a proper British railway-stock building industry any more to build new units that would be for all intents and purposes clones of existing units. Northern Rail plus the other local operators of the class 150 Sprinter and 156 Super Sprinter diesel units would love to have more of these. So how about building some that are fully compatible to ease the pressure. Imagine Northern getting say 30 more of each unit to use right across the North-West and North-East.... and no I won't suggest ordering any Pacers lol!!
This thread seems to have wandered off course somewhere in the middle...... hmmm Anyway the trams could be possible. Ok it wouldn't be the fastest way of getting to Manchester but then again neither are the tram routes to Ashton, East Didsbury or eventually Manchester Airport but they are more about making connections to places along those routes that in some cases didn't already have a good transport network. Yes there are some obstacles along the Radcliffe to Bolton route I never said there wasn't but again look at the recent Metrolink lines to see that such obstacles haven't caused any major problems. It is a real shame that we don't really have a proper British railway-stock building industry any more to build new units that would be for all intents and purposes clones of existing units. Northern Rail plus the other local operators of the class 150 Sprinter and 156 Super Sprinter diesel units would love to have more of these. So how about building some that are fully compatible to ease the pressure. Imagine Northern getting say 30 more of each unit to use right across the North-West and North-East.... and no I won't suggest ordering any Pacers lol!! astleybridgepaul

9:09pm Sat 7 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

I'd like to see full electrification and then ordering of more than enough of the SLT's what they now use for all-stopper services in The Netherlands.

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Sprinter_Li
ghttrain

I know we can't have them but double-deckers would also be good - daaamn you Farnworth Tunnel!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/NS_VIRM
I'd like to see full electrification and then ordering of more than enough of the SLT's what they now use for all-stopper services in The Netherlands. http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Sprinter_Li ghttrain I know we can't have them but double-deckers would also be good - daaamn you Farnworth Tunnel!!!! http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/NS_VIRM BWFC71

12:18am Sun 8 Dec 13

serendipity2 says...

Like Nazis packing Jews into cattle trucks that the last vision I have of trains in Bolton.

Why build a new interchange when the rail franchises are circum navigating Bolton in favour of Wigan.
Bolton is heading for total grid lock on the M61 M60 junction and the only option is a cattle truck older than my parents.

Bolton council need quality national companies not retail jobs.
Like Nazis packing Jews into cattle trucks that the last vision I have of trains in Bolton. Why build a new interchange when the rail franchises are circum navigating Bolton in favour of Wigan. Bolton is heading for total grid lock on the M61 M60 junction and the only option is a cattle truck older than my parents. Bolton council need quality national companies not retail jobs. serendipity2

4:41pm Sun 8 Dec 13

fay clarke says...

What about Health & Safety? Isn't there only meant to be so many people to a carriage? What happens if it crashes and everyone gets crushed? Does this not matter?
What about Health & Safety? Isn't there only meant to be so many people to a carriage? What happens if it crashes and everyone gets crushed? Does this not matter? fay clarke

4:55pm Sun 8 Dec 13

BWFC71 says...

fay clarke wrote:
What about Health & Safety? Isn't there only meant to be so many people to a carriage? What happens if it crashes and everyone gets crushed? Does this not matter?
There is no health and safety with regards to humans in train carriages (built for humans) - it is all down to the discretion of the train manager/conductor and the platform assistants as to whether a train I over-full or not.

But I fully agree with eth Class 142 Pacers (bus-trains/nodding donkeys) if there was ever a crash the death rat would definitely either be in the higher 90% or even 100% because they do not conform to any UK or EU safety legislation and is one of the reasons why they have to be withdrawn by 2019. With the Class 15X sprinters it would be the crushing that would definitely kill the majority of passengers.

And, yes, I agree that they just do not seem to care - and the fault solely lies with the Department for Transport for not allowing Northern rail to buy or rent new/second hand carriages!!!
[quote][p][bold]fay clarke[/bold] wrote: What about Health & Safety? Isn't there only meant to be so many people to a carriage? What happens if it crashes and everyone gets crushed? Does this not matter?[/p][/quote]There is no health and safety with regards to humans in train carriages (built for humans) - it is all down to the discretion of the train manager/conductor and the platform assistants as to whether a train I over-full or not. But I fully agree with eth Class 142 Pacers (bus-trains/nodding donkeys) if there was ever a crash the death rat would definitely either be in the higher 90% or even 100% because they do not conform to any UK or EU safety legislation and is one of the reasons why they have to be withdrawn by 2019. With the Class 15X sprinters it would be the crushing that would definitely kill the majority of passengers. And, yes, I agree that they just do not seem to care - and the fault solely lies with the Department for Transport for not allowing Northern rail to buy or rent new/second hand carriages!!! BWFC71

6:11pm Mon 9 Dec 13

hoboh2o says...

All this makes a mockery of the Fat Controllers glee at the building of a £40 odd million bus rail interchange to attract folk to Bolton, LOL.
All this makes a mockery of the Fat Controllers glee at the building of a £40 odd million bus rail interchange to attract folk to Bolton, LOL. hoboh2o

10:20am Wed 11 Dec 13

Lynn57 says...

There was quite a lot of complaining last week on the 08.55 Bolton to Manchester Piccaddilly (as we stood in stairwells rammed up against the window). A very good point was raised, what if somebody has a heart attack or stroke?? How do they get a message to the driver to summon emergency services?? One cannot move to pass a message on (the guard cannot get past to walk up and down). The emergency cord is not always near and if it was even if people willingly try to move they cannot.
There was quite a lot of complaining last week on the 08.55 Bolton to Manchester Piccaddilly (as we stood in stairwells rammed up against the window). A very good point was raised, what if somebody has a heart attack or stroke?? How do they get a message to the driver to summon emergency services?? One cannot move to pass a message on (the guard cannot get past to walk up and down). The emergency cord is not always near and if it was even if people willingly try to move they cannot. Lynn57

5:10pm Wed 11 Dec 13

Ernagy2 says...

BWFC71 wrote:
fay clarke wrote:
What about Health & Safety? Isn't there only meant to be so many people to a carriage? What happens if it crashes and everyone gets crushed? Does this not matter?
There is no health and safety with regards to humans in train carriages (built for humans) - it is all down to the discretion of the train manager/conductor and the platform assistants as to whether a train I over-full or not.

But I fully agree with eth Class 142 Pacers (bus-trains/nodding donkeys) if there was ever a crash the death rat would definitely either be in the higher 90% or even 100% because they do not conform to any UK or EU safety legislation and is one of the reasons why they have to be withdrawn by 2019. With the Class 15X sprinters it would be the crushing that would definitely kill the majority of passengers.

And, yes, I agree that they just do not seem to care - and the fault solely lies with the Department for Transport for not allowing Northern rail to buy or rent new/second hand carriages!!!
The over crowding situation was put to then transport secretary Alistair Darling (Labour), some years ago. He confirmed that there was no limit to the number of passengers a train could carry and he didn't think it was necessary as the safety record of trains is extremely high.
[quote][p][bold]BWFC71[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]fay clarke[/bold] wrote: What about Health & Safety? Isn't there only meant to be so many people to a carriage? What happens if it crashes and everyone gets crushed? Does this not matter?[/p][/quote]There is no health and safety with regards to humans in train carriages (built for humans) - it is all down to the discretion of the train manager/conductor and the platform assistants as to whether a train I over-full or not. But I fully agree with eth Class 142 Pacers (bus-trains/nodding donkeys) if there was ever a crash the death rat would definitely either be in the higher 90% or even 100% because they do not conform to any UK or EU safety legislation and is one of the reasons why they have to be withdrawn by 2019. With the Class 15X sprinters it would be the crushing that would definitely kill the majority of passengers. And, yes, I agree that they just do not seem to care - and the fault solely lies with the Department for Transport for not allowing Northern rail to buy or rent new/second hand carriages!!![/p][/quote]The over crowding situation was put to then transport secretary Alistair Darling (Labour), some years ago. He confirmed that there was no limit to the number of passengers a train could carry and he didn't think it was necessary as the safety record of trains is extremely high. Ernagy2

10:36am Thu 12 Dec 13

Mike23 says...

Phew, I wish some people would stop using the Dutch - Anglo connection.
Holland may have some good points, but it also has many bad points too.

The real crux of the problem here is that it is 2013/14 and we are still basically operating a mode of transport which relies on fossil fuel, which overcharges, which is not pleasant and essentially now is turning into a health problem.

My heart goes out to all those who rely on the daily commute, if I had the power, I would make it better.

How?

When you have organisations which insist upon extending product life cycles for cash gains, this is economically inefficient.

The stock market & banks are ultimately driving their own destruction.
I could write at length on this subject, but what it all boils down to is the flaw we currently choose to adopt in allocating resources for all humans.

Profit is seen as the only means of deciding whether an organisation is good or bad. Quality of life is driven by the amount of goods one is able to consume.

When infrastructure projects are appraised, it is always monetary cost which is seen as the defining factor. There is always a reluctance to introduce radical new technologies because of the constraints put in place by certain companies to extend product life cycles…i.e. oil.

Patents exist for magnetic systems, vacuum driven propulsion etc…but governments will refuse to adopt them, because of their relationships to large organisations and their constant love affairs with cash & gain.

When politics places the human at the top of the list, only then will things change and methods of living will improve.

So, alas, that is why I feel for the commuters because the scenario will remain as it is or get worse because the vast majority of us are mere fodder for elite who consistently choose personal gain at every juncture.
Phew, I wish some people would stop using the Dutch - Anglo connection. Holland may have some good points, but it also has many bad points too. The real crux of the problem here is that it is 2013/14 and we are still basically operating a mode of transport which relies on fossil fuel, which overcharges, which is not pleasant and essentially now is turning into a health problem. My heart goes out to all those who rely on the daily commute, if I had the power, I would make it better. How? When you have organisations which insist upon extending product life cycles for cash gains, this is economically inefficient. The stock market & banks are ultimately driving their own destruction. I could write at length on this subject, but what it all boils down to is the flaw we currently choose to adopt in allocating resources for all humans. Profit is seen as the only means of deciding whether an organisation is good or bad. Quality of life is driven by the amount of goods one is able to consume. When infrastructure projects are appraised, it is always monetary cost which is seen as the defining factor. There is always a reluctance to introduce radical new technologies because of the constraints put in place by certain companies to extend product life cycles…i.e. oil. Patents exist for magnetic systems, vacuum driven propulsion etc…but governments will refuse to adopt them, because of their relationships to large organisations and their constant love affairs with cash & gain. When politics places the human at the top of the list, only then will things change and methods of living will improve. So, alas, that is why I feel for the commuters because the scenario will remain as it is or get worse because the vast majority of us are mere fodder for elite who consistently choose personal gain at every juncture. Mike23

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