New rail action group formed to help improve Bolton's overcrowded trains

The Bolton News: Preva Crossley, who is setting up a railways users support group,  outside Bolton train station Preva Crossley, who is setting up a railways users support group, outside Bolton train station

RAILWAY campaigners are steaming ahead with plans for a new community action group for passengers after being inspired by The Bolton News ‘Let’s Get Back on Track’ campaign.

Preva Crossley and Derek Bullock will join the fight for better public transport links throughout Bolton by setting up a new community rail user group.

Mr Crossley, from Great Lever, who is the development officer for the Friends of Hindley Station and a committee member for the Friends of Westhoughton Station, said he wanted to set up the Bolton-wide group after reading about plans to railway services in The Bolton News.

We have been campaigning for travel bosses to reinstate axed peak-hour carriages and a dramatic improvement to the town’s overcrowded trains.

Preva, from Roseneath Road, said: “It made my blood boil to read how the government said that train problems are a local issue.

“Everyone is passing the buck, and we feel that we are not being listened to as passengers.

“We want to see more improvements on the line between Bolton and Manchester, and plan to campaign on a number of issues.

“If we can get everybody involved it’s going to take off. I’m very enthusiastic.”

The community rail user group will look at issues regarding overcrowding on trains and delays to services, and also take in problems with the buses.

A public meeting will take place on Wednesday, January 15, at the Hope Community Centre, in Central Drive, Westhoughton, BL5 3DS at 7.30pm for people to get involved.

Representatives from existing rail groups, Northern Rail, Network Rail and TfGM have been invited to come and hear the views of local passengers.

Further information can be obtained by contacting Preva Crossley on 01204 63578 or mb07949128126 Email:prevacrossley@talktalk.net.

The Bolton News launched the Let’s Get Back On Track campaign calling for a dramatic improvement to the town’s “cattle truck” rail services now First Trans-Pennine Express runs fewer services to and from Manchester as a result of major work to electrify the Manchester to Preston line.

A busy morning commuter train has also had its carriages reduced from six to just three.

To support the Let’s Get Back On Track campaign, sign the petition which is in our town centre offices and in shops and newsagents around Bolton, or you can download and print your own here: (Let's Get Back on Track petition.pdf).

You can also sign an online petition on our website, and forms are available at The Bolton News office in the Wellsprings building next to the Town Hall.

Please return completed petitions to Let’s Get Back On Track, Editorial Department, The Bolton News, The Wellsprings, Civic Centre, Bolton, BL1 1AR.

If you would like to have a petition in your shop, call 01204 537239. We will be presenting the petition to rail bosses.

Comments (19)

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10:53am Tue 31 Dec 13

Phil from Smithills says...

Good luck to the action group., but the train overcrowding doesn't seem to have altered from the 60's when I travelled to work, from Bolton to Manchester Victoria.

They were massively overcrowded, I world catch the 17-15 Blackpool train back to Bolton and rather than stand, I would find one of the luggage compartments, and sit in the vacant guards seat.
Good luck to the action group., but the train overcrowding doesn't seem to have altered from the 60's when I travelled to work, from Bolton to Manchester Victoria. They were massively overcrowded, I world catch the 17-15 Blackpool train back to Bolton and rather than stand, I would find one of the luggage compartments, and sit in the vacant guards seat. Phil from Smithills

1:19pm Tue 31 Dec 13

The Righteous One says...

in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!! The Righteous One

1:54pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Reality50 says...

All this is 2 years too late. The horse has bolted and the decisions politically and in the rail industry have been made. It is too late to change anything. What can be done is to try and persuade big business to invest in Bolton as a town. That was people will not need to travel to Manchester to work. Years ago Bolton had major industry so very few people actually travelled to Manchester for work. It is only the last 20 years that the Manchester train issue at peak times has been an issue. Provide LOCAL jobs for LOCAL people then most commuting 12 miles south would cease. That is the way ahead.
All this is 2 years too late. The horse has bolted and the decisions politically and in the rail industry have been made. It is too late to change anything. What can be done is to try and persuade big business to invest in Bolton as a town. That was people will not need to travel to Manchester to work. Years ago Bolton had major industry so very few people actually travelled to Manchester for work. It is only the last 20 years that the Manchester train issue at peak times has been an issue. Provide LOCAL jobs for LOCAL people then most commuting 12 miles south would cease. That is the way ahead. Reality50

2:04pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Reality50 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!![/p][/quote]Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all. Reality50

10:26pm Tue 31 Dec 13

Frogger123 says...

Reality50 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.
I understand what you are saying, I also used to resent manchester for being the be all and end all but then I was made redundant from my long term bolton job in a well known Bank this year. The only similar jobs for a similar salary were in Manchester so I had no choice but to travel. The trains are appallingly over crowded and it's so depressing having to fight your way on (no I'm not exaggerating) day in day out, every morning 5 days a week just to earn enough to pay your mortgage and keep your kids in clothes and shoes etc. I'll be attending the meeting in January as us commuters can't just sit back and take this .
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!![/p][/quote]Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.[/p][/quote]I understand what you are saying, I also used to resent manchester for being the be all and end all but then I was made redundant from my long term bolton job in a well known Bank this year. The only similar jobs for a similar salary were in Manchester so I had no choice but to travel. The trains are appallingly over crowded and it's so depressing having to fight your way on (no I'm not exaggerating) day in day out, every morning 5 days a week just to earn enough to pay your mortgage and keep your kids in clothes and shoes etc. I'll be attending the meeting in January as us commuters can't just sit back and take this . Frogger123

6:20am Wed 1 Jan 14

oftbewildered2 says...

I applaud and support this group - but BN published their campaign on 6th December - the day after the meeting I attended where Preva discussed the formation of the group - so possibly it did not follow BN's lead? Credit where credit is due.
I applaud and support this group - but BN published their campaign on 6th December - the day after the meeting I attended where Preva discussed the formation of the group - so possibly it did not follow BN's lead? Credit where credit is due. oftbewildered2

12:27pm Wed 1 Jan 14

English & proud says...

oftbewildered2 wrote:
I applaud and support this group - but BN published their campaign on 6th December - the day after the meeting I attended where Preva discussed the formation of the group - so possibly it did not follow BN's lead? Credit where credit is due.
Thanks for your support on our Groups rail Campaign!-'Along the Right Lines-Northern Communities Together'.This Campaign originates from a meeting way back in September between the NW English Democrats &
local Independents who all felt that something should be done about our neglected 'Cinderella' local rail services to Wigan & Manchester?This lead to us widening support by launching a communities based Campaign chaired by local rail campaigner Preva Crossley in November. We are pleased that the BN has also launched its own Press Campaign that helps our own Campaign -7 we hope the BN supports us in getting better local rail-services for the Bolton area?
[quote][p][bold]oftbewildered2[/bold] wrote: I applaud and support this group - but BN published their campaign on 6th December - the day after the meeting I attended where Preva discussed the formation of the group - so possibly it did not follow BN's lead? Credit where credit is due.[/p][/quote]Thanks for your support on our Groups rail Campaign!-'Along the Right Lines-Northern Communities Together'.This Campaign originates from a meeting way back in September between the NW English Democrats & local Independents who all felt that something should be done about our neglected 'Cinderella' local rail services to Wigan & Manchester?This lead to us widening support by launching a communities based Campaign chaired by local rail campaigner Preva Crossley in November. We are pleased that the BN has also launched its own Press Campaign that helps our own Campaign -7 we hope the BN supports us in getting better local rail-services for the Bolton area? English & proud

2:14pm Wed 1 Jan 14

MalcM59 says...

I don't know how big the meeting venue is, however it could get even more overcrowded than the infamous rush hour trains, given the strength of feeling about this topic.
Would suggest that a future meeting should be held at a larger and more central location (Town Hall perhaps ?)
I don't know how big the meeting venue is, however it could get even more overcrowded than the infamous rush hour trains, given the strength of feeling about this topic. Would suggest that a future meeting should be held at a larger and more central location (Town Hall perhaps ?) MalcM59

5:26pm Wed 1 Jan 14

BWFC71 says...

To be fair I wouldn't be surprised if the turn out is quite low. People will have been fed up of travelling by train to then to go to this meeting would tae them away from quality family time. Some people just moan and do nothing.

There will be some, and I would love to be there to discuss the situation but I am out of the country in fact I will be travelling on 6-coach SLT's and 6 or 12 coach Double-decker trains around Amsterdam, Utrecht and Den Haag (basically showing off to us Brits as to how a rail network should be run!!!)

I am not dissing the idea and hope that there will be a decent turnout but I do fear there will only be a small fraction of the majority that continually moan.
To be fair I wouldn't be surprised if the turn out is quite low. People will have been fed up of travelling by train to then to go to this meeting would tae them away from quality family time. Some people just moan and do nothing. There will be some, and I would love to be there to discuss the situation but I am out of the country in fact I will be travelling on 6-coach SLT's and 6 or 12 coach Double-decker trains around Amsterdam, Utrecht and Den Haag (basically showing off to us Brits as to how a rail network should be run!!!) I am not dissing the idea and hope that there will be a decent turnout but I do fear there will only be a small fraction of the majority that continually moan. BWFC71

10:22am Thu 2 Jan 14

Phil from Smithills says...

Reality50 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.
Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region.

Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.
[quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!![/p][/quote]Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.[/p][/quote]Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region. Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate. Phil from Smithills

11:47am Thu 2 Jan 14

The Righteous One says...

Phil from Smithills wrote:
Reality50 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.
Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region.

Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.
To be fair, if we had stayed as Lancashire or become part of a SELNEC named county the jobs would still be more prominent in Manchester - firstly transport links, secondly it is a city (2nd/3rd largest city in England) and lastly because the jobs moved to Manchester are with Quango's/companies whose HQ are not based in the NOrth and as such see Manchester as a larger conurbation than just the city itself. We have been linked with manchester for over 200 years - even before the start of teh industrial revolution (IR) but it was the IR that gave Bolton the "closeness" to Manchester because of the money!!!! And as such ever since those outside this area will always link the two together and will plump for Manchester the majority of times.

I wish I didn't ahve to travel to Manchester but that is how the modern world works - the jobs are in the large city that encrouches on local areas - even happens overseas where the jobs are in Amsterdam but loacl townships/cities have become "conurbations" to Amsterdam - such as Amsterdam, Hoorn, Amstelveen, Haarlem - which less than 30 years ago were exactly the same as Bolton - more independent - from their "big brother" city!!!
[quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!![/p][/quote]Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.[/p][/quote]Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region. Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.[/p][/quote]To be fair, if we had stayed as Lancashire or become part of a SELNEC named county the jobs would still be more prominent in Manchester - firstly transport links, secondly it is a city (2nd/3rd largest city in England) and lastly because the jobs moved to Manchester are with Quango's/companies whose HQ are not based in the NOrth and as such see Manchester as a larger conurbation than just the city itself. We have been linked with manchester for over 200 years - even before the start of teh industrial revolution (IR) but it was the IR that gave Bolton the "closeness" to Manchester because of the money!!!! And as such ever since those outside this area will always link the two together and will plump for Manchester the majority of times. I wish I didn't ahve to travel to Manchester but that is how the modern world works - the jobs are in the large city that encrouches on local areas - even happens overseas where the jobs are in Amsterdam but loacl townships/cities have become "conurbations" to Amsterdam - such as Amsterdam, Hoorn, Amstelveen, Haarlem - which less than 30 years ago were exactly the same as Bolton - more independent - from their "big brother" city!!! The Righteous One

3:46pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Lynn57 says...

I am delighted that this is gaining momentum, I have written to my MP about it too. David Cameron visited Bolton just before Christmas and travelled on a Northern Rail train. However they managed to put an extra carriage on for him and he was not travelling at peak times; (the 08.55 to Manchester) has guards shoving people on then yelling at them to move forward so that they can close the doors. So have most trains between 07.30 and 08.45. I have been on holiday today but am dreading the return tomorrow especially as I am paying £1,200 per annum with a rise from Thursday. Shocking service and shocking prices.
I am delighted that this is gaining momentum, I have written to my MP about it too. David Cameron visited Bolton just before Christmas and travelled on a Northern Rail train. However they managed to put an extra carriage on for him and he was not travelling at peak times; (the 08.55 to Manchester) has guards shoving people on then yelling at them to move forward so that they can close the doors. So have most trains between 07.30 and 08.45. I have been on holiday today but am dreading the return tomorrow especially as I am paying £1,200 per annum with a rise from Thursday. Shocking service and shocking prices. Lynn57

3:57pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Phil from Smithills says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Phil from Smithills wrote:
Reality50 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.
Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region.

Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.
To be fair, if we had stayed as Lancashire or become part of a SELNEC named county the jobs would still be more prominent in Manchester - firstly transport links, secondly it is a city (2nd/3rd largest city in England) and lastly because the jobs moved to Manchester are with Quango's/companies whose HQ are not based in the NOrth and as such see Manchester as a larger conurbation than just the city itself. We have been linked with manchester for over 200 years - even before the start of teh industrial revolution (IR) but it was the IR that gave Bolton the "closeness" to Manchester because of the money!!!! And as such ever since those outside this area will always link the two together and will plump for Manchester the majority of times.

I wish I didn't ahve to travel to Manchester but that is how the modern world works - the jobs are in the large city that encrouches on local areas - even happens overseas where the jobs are in Amsterdam but loacl townships/cities have become "conurbations" to Amsterdam - such as Amsterdam, Hoorn, Amstelveen, Haarlem - which less than 30 years ago were exactly the same as Bolton - more independent - from their "big brother" city!!!
To be fair... we are still in the traditional county of Lancashire, the boundaries were never altered in 1974, but the creation of administrative counties within the traditional county of Lancashire. Gtr Man created purely for administration of this part of the county.

The size of Manchester is growing , but I feel at Bolton, and the other towns expense. They seem to have a policy of hoovering-up all available rejuvenation grants etc., fortunately Salford are now having some rejuvenation grants etc afforded to them, perhaps its because of their close proximity to Manchester.

As soon as Bolton is afforded the same mass of money spent on Manchester..... the better, as we are supposed to be the 2nd or 3rd largest town in the country.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!![/p][/quote]Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.[/p][/quote]Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region. Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.[/p][/quote]To be fair, if we had stayed as Lancashire or become part of a SELNEC named county the jobs would still be more prominent in Manchester - firstly transport links, secondly it is a city (2nd/3rd largest city in England) and lastly because the jobs moved to Manchester are with Quango's/companies whose HQ are not based in the NOrth and as such see Manchester as a larger conurbation than just the city itself. We have been linked with manchester for over 200 years - even before the start of teh industrial revolution (IR) but it was the IR that gave Bolton the "closeness" to Manchester because of the money!!!! And as such ever since those outside this area will always link the two together and will plump for Manchester the majority of times. I wish I didn't ahve to travel to Manchester but that is how the modern world works - the jobs are in the large city that encrouches on local areas - even happens overseas where the jobs are in Amsterdam but loacl townships/cities have become "conurbations" to Amsterdam - such as Amsterdam, Hoorn, Amstelveen, Haarlem - which less than 30 years ago were exactly the same as Bolton - more independent - from their "big brother" city!!![/p][/quote]To be fair... we are still in the traditional county of Lancashire, the boundaries were never altered in 1974, but the creation of administrative counties within the traditional county of Lancashire. Gtr Man created purely for administration of this part of the county. The size of Manchester is growing , but I feel at Bolton, and the other towns expense. They seem to have a policy of hoovering-up all available rejuvenation grants etc., fortunately Salford are now having some rejuvenation grants etc afforded to them, perhaps its because of their close proximity to Manchester. As soon as Bolton is afforded the same mass of money spent on Manchester..... the better, as we are supposed to be the 2nd or 3rd largest town in the country. Phil from Smithills

5:40pm Thu 2 Jan 14

BWFC71 says...

Phil from Smithills wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Phil from Smithills wrote:
Reality50 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!!
Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.
Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region.

Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.
To be fair, if we had stayed as Lancashire or become part of a SELNEC named county the jobs would still be more prominent in Manchester - firstly transport links, secondly it is a city (2nd/3rd largest city in England) and lastly because the jobs moved to Manchester are with Quango's/companies whose HQ are not based in the NOrth and as such see Manchester as a larger conurbation than just the city itself. We have been linked with manchester for over 200 years - even before the start of teh industrial revolution (IR) but it was the IR that gave Bolton the "closeness" to Manchester because of the money!!!! And as such ever since those outside this area will always link the two together and will plump for Manchester the majority of times.

I wish I didn't ahve to travel to Manchester but that is how the modern world works - the jobs are in the large city that encrouches on local areas - even happens overseas where the jobs are in Amsterdam but loacl townships/cities have become "conurbations" to Amsterdam - such as Amsterdam, Hoorn, Amstelveen, Haarlem - which less than 30 years ago were exactly the same as Bolton - more independent - from their "big brother" city!!!
To be fair... we are still in the traditional county of Lancashire, the boundaries were never altered in 1974, but the creation of administrative counties within the traditional county of Lancashire. Gtr Man created purely for administration of this part of the county.

The size of Manchester is growing , but I feel at Bolton, and the other towns expense. They seem to have a policy of hoovering-up all available rejuvenation grants etc., fortunately Salford are now having some rejuvenation grants etc afforded to them, perhaps its because of their close proximity to Manchester.

As soon as Bolton is afforded the same mass of money spent on Manchester..... the better, as we are supposed to be the 2nd or 3rd largest town in the country.
Not quite true as we are still in the County Palatine of Lancashire and NOT the county of Lancashire, but there again as history shows that we were part of Cheshire - thus Lancashire was originally an administrative divide (sound familiar?)

Thing is it is not just happening to the conurbation of Manchester but to all other major conurbations where one city stands out such as Liverpool, Preston, Sheffield being examples and basically started with Greater London which more or less everyone now just calls London!!! But it is also happening I all major European countries as I pointed out before.

To be fair it is a modern version of the Industrial Revolution where people were basically forced to move from hamlets and villages and from farming and cottage industries into the towns for work in the factories or other manufacturing jobs - but now its moving from manufacturing into office paper-less based jobs. During the IR it was the luddites that tried to stop the so-called progress but nothing could stop it and now its many conservatives and traditionalists that want to halt the movement of work and people but, again like during the IR, the momentum, I believe, is far too great to reverse it.

This is not to say that ALL jobs will bee based in the city boundaries as there will be some jobs based in Bolton, but the greater number will be the city. Lets not forget that passenger railways came about because of the movement o people and work and so it goes now!
[quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Phil from Smithills[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reality50[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: in the past 7 years the number of people travelling from Bolton has increased by 87% and yet teh number of carriages and traines have decreased!!![/p][/quote]Well as I said in my last comment,when Bolton supplied it's own jobs,there was no need to go to Manchester. Instead of turning into a dormitory town for Manchester,Bolton needs to reinvent itself and believe in itself. It is a tragedy that a town of 270,000 people has to rely on a city down to road to provide work for them. Running more trains and carriages will only encourage those who control Bolton's fortunes to continue to neglect the town locally and let Manchester completely take over us in every way. I remember as recently as the 70's and 80's when roads into town were gridlocked with people heading into work. Now Bolton has no industry and is a ghost town. I am not Mancunian and resent the way Manchester seems to be the be all and end all.[/p][/quote]Well said Reality50., ever since the administrative Greater Manchester was invented in 1974, the emphasis has been steadily growing of the Manchester dominance of the whole region. Bolton's jobs have been transferred to Manchester ( tax office positions) the name itself infers Manchester as the main centre, that's why I felt that the name South Lancashire with North Cheshire would be more appropriate.[/p][/quote]To be fair, if we had stayed as Lancashire or become part of a SELNEC named county the jobs would still be more prominent in Manchester - firstly transport links, secondly it is a city (2nd/3rd largest city in England) and lastly because the jobs moved to Manchester are with Quango's/companies whose HQ are not based in the NOrth and as such see Manchester as a larger conurbation than just the city itself. We have been linked with manchester for over 200 years - even before the start of teh industrial revolution (IR) but it was the IR that gave Bolton the "closeness" to Manchester because of the money!!!! And as such ever since those outside this area will always link the two together and will plump for Manchester the majority of times. I wish I didn't ahve to travel to Manchester but that is how the modern world works - the jobs are in the large city that encrouches on local areas - even happens overseas where the jobs are in Amsterdam but loacl townships/cities have become "conurbations" to Amsterdam - such as Amsterdam, Hoorn, Amstelveen, Haarlem - which less than 30 years ago were exactly the same as Bolton - more independent - from their "big brother" city!!![/p][/quote]To be fair... we are still in the traditional county of Lancashire, the boundaries were never altered in 1974, but the creation of administrative counties within the traditional county of Lancashire. Gtr Man created purely for administration of this part of the county. The size of Manchester is growing , but I feel at Bolton, and the other towns expense. They seem to have a policy of hoovering-up all available rejuvenation grants etc., fortunately Salford are now having some rejuvenation grants etc afforded to them, perhaps its because of their close proximity to Manchester. As soon as Bolton is afforded the same mass of money spent on Manchester..... the better, as we are supposed to be the 2nd or 3rd largest town in the country.[/p][/quote]Not quite true as we are still in the County Palatine of Lancashire and NOT the county of Lancashire, but there again as history shows that we were part of Cheshire - thus Lancashire was originally an administrative divide (sound familiar?) Thing is it is not just happening to the conurbation of Manchester but to all other major conurbations where one city stands out such as Liverpool, Preston, Sheffield being examples and basically started with Greater London which more or less everyone now just calls London!!! But it is also happening I all major European countries as I pointed out before. To be fair it is a modern version of the Industrial Revolution where people were basically forced to move from hamlets and villages and from farming and cottage industries into the towns for work in the factories or other manufacturing jobs - but now its moving from manufacturing into office paper-less based jobs. During the IR it was the luddites that tried to stop the so-called progress but nothing could stop it and now its many conservatives and traditionalists that want to halt the movement of work and people but, again like during the IR, the momentum, I believe, is far too great to reverse it. This is not to say that ALL jobs will bee based in the city boundaries as there will be some jobs based in Bolton, but the greater number will be the city. Lets not forget that passenger railways came about because of the movement o people and work and so it goes now! BWFC71

5:41pm Thu 2 Jan 14

BWFC71 says...

oh, almost forgot that by official figures Metropolitan Borough of Bolton is about the 13th biggest town in England whilst Bolton is about the 18th biggest town! Wigan, unfortunately, is bigger than Bolton!
oh, almost forgot that by official figures Metropolitan Borough of Bolton is about the 13th biggest town in England whilst Bolton is about the 18th biggest town! Wigan, unfortunately, is bigger than Bolton! BWFC71

9:11pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Phil from Smithills says...

The county Palatine Lancashire is the traditional county of Lancashire. Not to be confused with the administrative county of Lancashire. Which is the part of our county administered from Preston.

Bolton was not administered from Preston pre 1974 yet a part of the tradional county as we still are.
The county Palatine Lancashire is the traditional county of Lancashire. Not to be confused with the administrative county of Lancashire. Which is the part of our county administered from Preston. Bolton was not administered from Preston pre 1974 yet a part of the tradional county as we still are. Phil from Smithills

9:18pm Thu 2 Jan 14

BWFC71 says...

To be fair I'd rather be part of the original Cheshire-set as Bolton was governed from Chester long before Lancaster!
To be fair I'd rather be part of the original Cheshire-set as Bolton was governed from Chester long before Lancaster! BWFC71

9:49pm Thu 2 Jan 14

Phil from Smithills says...

When I worked in Manchester it was always their preference to move and live in Cheshire and be part of that Cheshire set.

Manchester has had many jobs transfered to it from Bolton and no doubt rom other towns in the region. Perhaps one way to remedy the overcrowding of the trains is to reverse this centralisation .
When I worked in Manchester it was always their preference to move and live in Cheshire and be part of that Cheshire set. Manchester has had many jobs transfered to it from Bolton and no doubt rom other towns in the region. Perhaps one way to remedy the overcrowding of the trains is to reverse this centralisation . Phil from Smithills

10:54am Mon 6 Jan 14

Wayfarer2 says...

Lynn57,

If your rail commute is entirely withinGreater Manchester then the Greater Manchester Traincard (£906) will be a much cheaper bet. This includes all trains within GM plus Metrolink between Victoria, Piccadilly and Deansgate-Castlefiel
d.
Lynn57, If your rail commute is entirely withinGreater Manchester then the Greater Manchester Traincard (£906) will be a much cheaper bet. This includes all trains within GM plus Metrolink between Victoria, Piccadilly and Deansgate-Castlefiel d. Wayfarer2

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