Heckled councillors forced out of meeting during row over mental health shake-up

The Bolton News: Cllr Andy Morgan Cllr Andy Morgan

HEALTH scrutiny chiefs walked out of a public meeting after being heckled by a group of furious carers.

A row erupted between councillors and members of the public over controversial proposals to close a mental health ward in Bolton.

Tonight's health scrutiny committee meeting took a chaotic turn when Cllr Andy Morgan claimed the consultation — which could see up to 50 mental health beds close at the Royal Bolton Hospital — had widespread support from carers and patients.

Cllr Morgan said: “This is a clinically-led — not politically-led — review and there are a lot of carers and patients in support of these proposals.”

Members of the public then loudly interrupted a question from Cllr Liam Irving to demand to know from Cllr Morgan who “these carers in support” were.

Cllr Irving was asking chair Noel Spencer what would happen if the committee failed to come to a decision on the proposals when Tom Hanley, a carer, said: “I’m addressing Cllr Morgan.

"Carers groups are not in favour of this. Not one carer. Which carers have you spoken to because I’m yet to meet someone in favour of these proposals?”

The row came to a head when Cllr Irving shouted back: “I’m speaking here, you shut up.”

As a security guard intercepted Cllr Irving and Mr Hanley, chair Cllr Spencer abruptly adjourned the meeting for 10 minutes — leading all members out of the town hall committee room.

When business resumed, Cllr Spencer reminded members of the public they were not allowed to question members.

Cllr Spencer said: “I want to make it clear that we continue in a relatively peaceful, fraternal and friendly manner.”

The proposals put forward by Greater Manchester West Mental Health NHS Foundation Trust (GMW) will see the mental health ward replaced with a new 24-hour service — or they will be taken to Woodlands Hospital in Little Hulton.

CCGs in Bolton, Salford and Trafford were in discussions with GMW to move services into the community.

Yet Trafford CCG backed out because of strong opposition from local councillors.

The consultation will continue in Bolton.

Comments (24)

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9:25pm Tue 4 Mar 14

wsw69 says...

Cllr Andy Morgan, what a tool! The less said the better!
Cllr Andy Morgan, what a tool! The less said the better! wsw69
  • Score: 86

10:08pm Tue 4 Mar 14

DavidSmeth says...

Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy. DavidSmeth
  • Score: -17

10:38pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Donkey Stone says...

DavidSmeth wrote:
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Tory are you?
[quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.[/p][/quote]Tory are you? Donkey Stone
  • Score: 18

10:41pm Tue 4 Mar 14

DavidSmeth says...

Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Tory are you?
What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?
[quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.[/p][/quote]Tory are you?[/p][/quote]What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up? DavidSmeth
  • Score: -7

10:41pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Donkey Stone says...

We can't have members of the public asking for the truth now can we? Noel Spencer is my local "representative".He is also a complete waste of space. My other local coucillor is a proven liar. What chance do we stand?
We can't have members of the public asking for the truth now can we? Noel Spencer is my local "representative".He is also a complete waste of space. My other local coucillor is a proven liar. What chance do we stand? Donkey Stone
  • Score: 20

10:46pm Tue 4 Mar 14

Donkey Stone says...

DavidSmeth wrote:
Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Tory are you?
What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?
No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.
[quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.[/p][/quote]Tory are you?[/p][/quote]What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?[/p][/quote]No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher. Donkey Stone
  • Score: 17

10:59pm Tue 4 Mar 14

DavidSmeth says...

Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Tory are you?
What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?
No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.
Don't know what your point is? I'm saying, and I think counsellor morgan is saying, let the consultation take its course then make a decision if to support the suggestion or not. But it sounds like the unions don't even want the consultation to take place to me. Is Tom Hanley not a union man but yet again the Bolton news fails to mention that. I'm not having a go at you I'm having a go at the bully boy tactics of the unions. For your info I've not always been Tory but I would not trust the labour lot in Bolton with my mothers pension.
[quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.[/p][/quote]Tory are you?[/p][/quote]What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?[/p][/quote]No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.[/p][/quote]Don't know what your point is? I'm saying, and I think counsellor morgan is saying, let the consultation take its course then make a decision if to support the suggestion or not. But it sounds like the unions don't even want the consultation to take place to me. Is Tom Hanley not a union man but yet again the Bolton news fails to mention that. I'm not having a go at you I'm having a go at the bully boy tactics of the unions. For your info I've not always been Tory but I would not trust the labour lot in Bolton with my mothers pension. DavidSmeth
  • Score: -10

7:30am Wed 5 Mar 14

oftbewildered2 says...

regardless of the pros and cons of this case - caring for dementia sufferers is an unrelenting 24/7 x 365 duty - a labour of love which becomes progressively draining and exhausting at times, with no guarantee as to behaviour pattern, especially if there is only the carer, who themselves are usually elderly, and the sufferer. And that is a very simplistic description. It is all very well saying 24 hour care in the community - but who is on hand when the sufferer becomes aggressive, or the carer collapses etc. etc.? What is needed is 24 hour at your side. Some 'in patient' care must be provided in a place which is convenient for the main carer to visit in order to offer respite for that carer.
regardless of the pros and cons of this case - caring for dementia sufferers is an unrelenting 24/7 x 365 duty - a labour of love which becomes progressively draining and exhausting at times, with no guarantee as to behaviour pattern, especially if there is only the carer, who themselves are usually elderly, and the sufferer. And that is a very simplistic description. It is all very well saying 24 hour care in the community - but who is on hand when the sufferer becomes aggressive, or the carer collapses etc. etc.? What is needed is 24 hour at your side. Some 'in patient' care must be provided in a place which is convenient for the main carer to visit in order to offer respite for that carer. oftbewildered2
  • Score: 21

7:56am Wed 5 Mar 14

JustBecause says...

Another sensational headline BN please report correctly.

The councillors adjourned for 10 minutes they where not forced out by hecklers. Sure they were being heckled, but forced out is wrong.
Another sensational headline BN please report correctly. The councillors adjourned for 10 minutes they where not forced out by hecklers. Sure they were being heckled, but forced out is wrong. JustBecause
  • Score: 11

8:09am Wed 5 Mar 14

Willow311 says...

Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Tory are you?
What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?
No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.
So how do you suggest the public turns up the so called heat?
Oh I suspect it's the same old, "let the consultation go ahead and then see ".
People need to know a consultation is taking place first don't they.
You also blamed the unions in another post......typical Tory stance ...always find someone else to blame. I believe the article said carer and somehow you got it to trade unionist?
Sorry if your not Tory but you do seem to be quoting the party line!
Mental health wards are proposed to close, how can that be a good idea?
And who are the people carers, and service users that think it's a good idea?
Councillor Morgan is a governor for GMW and is quite happy to say that closing wards is a good idea. And yet Trafford councillors said that the consultation document did not have enough detail to make an informed decision. What do our councillors know that Traffords didn't?
Maybe it's just that Bolton's elected couldn't care less.
People need to stop sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something about saving NHS services. Just like the carer in the article, trying to 'turn up the heat in the kitchen'
[quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.[/p][/quote]Tory are you?[/p][/quote]What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?[/p][/quote]No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.[/p][/quote]So how do you suggest the public turns up the so called heat? Oh I suspect it's the same old, "let the consultation go ahead and then see ". People need to know a consultation is taking place first don't they. You also blamed the unions in another post......typical Tory stance ...always find someone else to blame. I believe the article said carer and somehow you got it to trade unionist? Sorry if your not Tory but you do seem to be quoting the party line! Mental health wards are proposed to close, how can that be a good idea? And who are the people carers, and service users that think it's a good idea? Councillor Morgan is a governor for GMW and is quite happy to say that closing wards is a good idea. And yet Trafford councillors said that the consultation document did not have enough detail to make an informed decision. What do our councillors know that Traffords didn't? Maybe it's just that Bolton's elected couldn't care less. People need to stop sitting back and waiting for someone else to do something about saving NHS services. Just like the carer in the article, trying to 'turn up the heat in the kitchen' Willow311
  • Score: 7

8:42am Wed 5 Mar 14

Reebok Rhythm says...

This move will be detrimental to people with severe mental health issues and I can imagine this will impact on the number of suicides as a result of it. Please refer to the 'Jamie Nolan' case that was publicised in the Bolton News on Wednesday 19th February.
This move will be detrimental to people with severe mental health issues and I can imagine this will impact on the number of suicides as a result of it. Please refer to the 'Jamie Nolan' case that was publicised in the Bolton News on Wednesday 19th February. Reebok Rhythm
  • Score: 14

8:44am Wed 5 Mar 14

Reebok Rhythm says...

will/would*
will/would* Reebok Rhythm
  • Score: 0

10:59am Wed 5 Mar 14

Tim Burr says...

Cllr Liam Irving - nice, telling the very people you'll be chasing votes from to "shut up."

BN, why don't you report just exactly what's going on? How many of these beds are set aside for dementia patients - secure wards and so on. Mental health covers a wide range of illness and conditions, we need to have more information, not a one sided inspired by Unison story..
Cllr Liam Irving - nice, telling the very people you'll be chasing votes from to "shut up." BN, why don't you report just exactly what's going on? How many of these beds are set aside for dementia patients - secure wards and so on. Mental health covers a wide range of illness and conditions, we need to have more information, not a one sided inspired by Unison story.. Tim Burr
  • Score: 1

11:17am Wed 5 Mar 14

Donkey Stone says...

Reebok Rhythm wrote:
This move will be detrimental to people with severe mental health issues and I can imagine this will impact on the number of suicides as a result of it. Please refer to the 'Jamie Nolan' case that was publicised in the Bolton News on Wednesday 19th February.
I agree. Jamie was a friend of my son. A tragic case and entirely preventable.
[quote][p][bold]Reebok Rhythm[/bold] wrote: This move will be detrimental to people with severe mental health issues and I can imagine this will impact on the number of suicides as a result of it. Please refer to the 'Jamie Nolan' case that was publicised in the Bolton News on Wednesday 19th February.[/p][/quote]I agree. Jamie was a friend of my son. A tragic case and entirely preventable. Donkey Stone
  • Score: 7

11:22am Wed 5 Mar 14

Donkey Stone says...

DavidSmeth wrote:
Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Donkey Stone wrote:
DavidSmeth wrote:
Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.
Tory are you?
What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?
No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.
Don't know what your point is? I'm saying, and I think counsellor morgan is saying, let the consultation take its course then make a decision if to support the suggestion or not. But it sounds like the unions don't even want the consultation to take place to me. Is Tom Hanley not a union man but yet again the Bolton news fails to mention that. I'm not having a go at you I'm having a go at the bully boy tactics of the unions. For your info I've not always been Tory but I would not trust the labour lot in Bolton with my mothers pension.
I didn't think you were having a go. Your bully boy union script ended in the 1980s. These poor people need help so these councillors shoul be providing it not finding any justification for closing down 50 beds. Consultation by the council is a very one way street believe me, I have recent examples of it.
[quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]DavidSmeth[/bold] wrote: Another example of union led bully boys trying to shout down anyone who disagrees with them. Let the consultation take place and see what the public say then make the decision, easy.[/p][/quote]Tory are you?[/p][/quote]What if I am, does that mean I'm not allowed a view? What you going to do shout me down to shut me up?[/p][/quote]No I don't. I would expect the councillors of this town to tell the truth. Unlike you I do not have a blind allegiance to any party. The councillors are happy to take the cash. If you can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen. Wasn't that the way of that "darling" Thatcher.[/p][/quote]Don't know what your point is? I'm saying, and I think counsellor morgan is saying, let the consultation take its course then make a decision if to support the suggestion or not. But it sounds like the unions don't even want the consultation to take place to me. Is Tom Hanley not a union man but yet again the Bolton news fails to mention that. I'm not having a go at you I'm having a go at the bully boy tactics of the unions. For your info I've not always been Tory but I would not trust the labour lot in Bolton with my mothers pension.[/p][/quote]I didn't think you were having a go. Your bully boy union script ended in the 1980s. These poor people need help so these councillors shoul be providing it not finding any justification for closing down 50 beds. Consultation by the council is a very one way street believe me, I have recent examples of it. Donkey Stone
  • Score: 6

9:22pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Rememberscarborough says...

Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....
Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit.... Rememberscarborough
  • Score: 4

8:16am Thu 6 Mar 14

Willow311 says...

Rememberscarborough wrote:
Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....
Agree totally. I've seen lots of people comment on how ludicrous the proposals are. Not seen any saying that closing a 15 bed psychiatric ward and reducing beds for older adults to less than half and shifting dementia patients to Salford is a great idea.
But then councillor Morgan is on the board of the trust that proposes to close the wards.
[quote][p][bold]Rememberscarborough[/bold] wrote: Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....[/p][/quote]Agree totally. I've seen lots of people comment on how ludicrous the proposals are. Not seen any saying that closing a 15 bed psychiatric ward and reducing beds for older adults to less than half and shifting dementia patients to Salford is a great idea. But then councillor Morgan is on the board of the trust that proposes to close the wards. Willow311
  • Score: 5

1:38pm Thu 6 Mar 14

wsw69 says...

Willow311 wrote:
Rememberscarborough wrote:
Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....
Agree totally. I've seen lots of people comment on how ludicrous the proposals are. Not seen any saying that closing a 15 bed psychiatric ward and reducing beds for older adults to less than half and shifting dementia patients to Salford is a great idea.
But then councillor Morgan is on the board of the trust that proposes to close the wards.
Well said.

Andy Morgan is a grade one oxygen thief.
[quote][p][bold]Willow311[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rememberscarborough[/bold] wrote: Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....[/p][/quote]Agree totally. I've seen lots of people comment on how ludicrous the proposals are. Not seen any saying that closing a 15 bed psychiatric ward and reducing beds for older adults to less than half and shifting dementia patients to Salford is a great idea. But then councillor Morgan is on the board of the trust that proposes to close the wards.[/p][/quote]Well said. Andy Morgan is a grade one oxygen thief. wsw69
  • Score: 4

7:47pm Sat 8 Mar 14

Dr Martin says...

Donkey Stone wrote:
Reebok Rhythm wrote:
This move will be detrimental to people with severe mental health issues and I can imagine this will impact on the number of suicides as a result of it. Please refer to the 'Jamie Nolan' case that was publicised in the Bolton News on Wednesday 19th February.
I agree. Jamie was a friend of my son. A tragic case and entirely preventable.
I doubt it was "entirely preventable" Psychiatry is not an exact science to prevent such incidents happening again you need to go back to huge Asylums the fifties and sixties.
[quote][p][bold]Donkey Stone[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Reebok Rhythm[/bold] wrote: This move will be detrimental to people with severe mental health issues and I can imagine this will impact on the number of suicides as a result of it. Please refer to the 'Jamie Nolan' case that was publicised in the Bolton News on Wednesday 19th February.[/p][/quote]I agree. Jamie was a friend of my son. A tragic case and entirely preventable.[/p][/quote]I doubt it was "entirely preventable" Psychiatry is not an exact science to prevent such incidents happening again you need to go back to huge Asylums the fifties and sixties. Dr Martin
  • Score: 0

1:56pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Puffin-Billy says...

Yet more lies from Bolton CCG, the smiling assassins of the NHS.

And the statement by Care Minister Norman Lamb that:

"More people are being treated in the right settings for them, including

fewer people needing to go into hospitals.” ...is a

downright lie;

More people are being treated in increasingly inappropriate settings

(police cells) and fewer beds.

These cuts are part of a NATIONWIDE ideological attack on the NHS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk

/news/uk-england-cam

bridgeshire-26453052



They are an attack on the poor in Britain, who, because they are

increasingly poor, will suffer disproportionately more from

mental and physical ill-health.

And nothing will change unless and until we the people take to the

streets, and get involved in direct action to take our NHS back, and repeal

the Health and Social Care Act.

Mental illness is of no concern to right wing governments because the

person with the illness is not capable of working. They have no value. It's

an ideology that values nothing but the ability to fill the ruling class's

wallets.

A government is needed which values human beings for themselves and

not just for what they can get out of them; until we get one, the numbers

of mentally ill people (adults and children) being detained in prison cells

will keep on climbing.

Budgets for 'crisis resolution teams' fell by 1.7% in real terms compared

to 2011/12. Referrals rose 16%. These are the staff who provide

intensive home treatment in an effort to prevent acutely unwell people

being admitted to hospital.

Budgets for community mental health teams shrank by 0.03% in real

terms since 2011/12 but referrals have risen 13%. These teams give

ongoing support to patients to prevent their health deteriorating to crisis

point.

In 2013/14, there was a reduction of 2.36% in mental health budgets in

real terms, and 10 more trusts are expecting more cuts.

A so-called “concordat”, backed by NHS England, the Association of

Chief Police Officers, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists, says that

health-based places of safety and beds should be available “around the

clock” and that police cells shouldn’t be used because mental health

services are not available. The concordat clearly isn’t working in Greater

Manchester.

If the trust wants more people to receive care in their homes rather than

at hospital, why are they planning extra beds at Woodlands?

Su Long claims that there has been plenty of positive feedback about her

proposals. The following points are the result of current government

policy on mental health, which Su Long , Bolton CCG, and Conservative

Cllr Andy Morgan supports. They are not “positive feedback”:

• Section 188 threat of redundancy notices have been given to the

unions representing mental health staff, whilst at the same time,

recruitment of staff from Ireland and Portugal is being considered.

• Dinesh Bhugra, a psychiatrist who chairs the Mental Health

Foundation, says: “Around the country there is a lot of pressure on

community teams and lots of staff are going off sick. I cannot see any

logical explanation for closing beds.”

• People who could have been admitted voluntarily at an early stage in

their crisis are instead left in the community while their mental health

deteriorates to the point where they may need to be admitted under the

Mental Health Act for a long admission.

• Staff are being told to section people under a section 2 rather than a

3 so that patients stay less time on the ward.

• Manchester Health and Social Care Trust spending £1.75m on

out-of-area private beds in four months.

• Patients waiting in seclusion rooms until beds become available,

• Three-quarters of bed cuts (1,291 closures) are on admission

wards and psychiatric intensive care units for acutely unwell adults and

older people.

• Adult psychiatric wards running occupancy levels of more than

100%, meaning some patients are being sent to private hospitals miles

from home or admitted to NHS hospitals without a bed available.

• The Police Commissioner for Greater Manchester, Tony Lloyd,

having to set aside £200,000 of his budget to buy extra support from

health professionals.

• Hundreds of children being locked in police cells because police

have nowhere to take them.

• 1700, ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED mental health beds

closed in England in the last 2 years.

• Although the Royal College of Psychiatrists recommend an 85%

occupancy rate, some wards are reaching 138%.

• Patients are being discharged early to free up beds resulting in one

patient being re-admitted 8 times in 12 months.

• The NHS is spending millions of pounds sending severely ill

patients hundreds of miles to private hospitals.

• A mentally ill patient had to undergo a 5 and a 1/2 hour journey to

Carlisle.

• acutely mentally unwell children are being admitted to adult

psychiatric wards.

• A mentally ill 12 year old girl shouted out of a window to her mummy

who had to travel 130 miles to visit her: ‘mummy don’t leave me’.

• NHS mental health care is now in crisis, with duty workers across

England reporting times when there are no beds available anywhere.

• Mental illness is increasing due to stress.

• The number of elderly people is increasing, while services for them

are being cut.

• Replacement services are not defined.

• Replacement Services have not been piloted.

• Replacement services are not evidence based.
Yet more lies from Bolton CCG, the smiling assassins of the NHS. And the statement by Care Minister Norman Lamb that: "More people are being treated in the right settings for them, including fewer people needing to go into hospitals.” ...is a downright lie; More people are being treated in increasingly inappropriate settings (police cells) and fewer beds. These cuts are part of a NATIONWIDE ideological attack on the NHS. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-cam bridgeshire-26453052 They are an attack on the poor in Britain, who, because they are increasingly poor, will suffer disproportionately more from mental and physical ill-health. And nothing will change unless and until we the people take to the streets, and get involved in direct action to take our NHS back, and repeal the Health and Social Care Act. Mental illness is of no concern to right wing governments because the person with the illness is not capable of working. They have no value. It's an ideology that values nothing but the ability to fill the ruling class's wallets. A government is needed which values human beings for themselves and not just for what they can get out of them; until we get one, the numbers of mentally ill people (adults and children) being detained in prison cells will keep on climbing. Budgets for 'crisis resolution teams' fell by 1.7% in real terms compared to 2011/12. Referrals rose 16%. These are the staff who provide intensive home treatment in an effort to prevent acutely unwell people being admitted to hospital. Budgets for community mental health teams shrank by 0.03% in real terms since 2011/12 but referrals have risen 13%. These teams give ongoing support to patients to prevent their health deteriorating to crisis point. In 2013/14, there was a reduction of 2.36% in mental health budgets in real terms, and 10 more trusts are expecting more cuts. A so-called “concordat”, backed by NHS England, the Association of Chief Police Officers, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists, says that health-based places of safety and beds should be available “around the clock” and that police cells shouldn’t be used because mental health services are not available. The concordat clearly isn’t working in Greater Manchester. If the trust wants more people to receive care in their homes rather than at hospital, why are they planning extra beds at Woodlands? Su Long claims that there has been plenty of positive feedback about her proposals. The following points are the result of current government policy on mental health, which Su Long , Bolton CCG, and Conservative Cllr Andy Morgan supports. They are not “positive feedback”: • Section 188 threat of redundancy notices have been given to the unions representing mental health staff, whilst at the same time, recruitment of staff from Ireland and Portugal is being considered. • Dinesh Bhugra, a psychiatrist who chairs the Mental Health Foundation, says: “Around the country there is a lot of pressure on community teams and lots of staff are going off sick. I cannot see any logical explanation for closing beds.” • People who could have been admitted voluntarily at an early stage in their crisis are instead left in the community while their mental health deteriorates to the point where they may need to be admitted under the Mental Health Act for a long admission. • Staff are being told to section people under a section 2 rather than a 3 so that patients stay less time on the ward. • Manchester Health and Social Care Trust spending £1.75m on out-of-area private beds in four months. • Patients waiting in seclusion rooms until beds become available, • Three-quarters of bed cuts (1,291 closures) are on admission wards and psychiatric intensive care units for acutely unwell adults and older people. • Adult psychiatric wards running occupancy levels of more than 100%, meaning some patients are being sent to private hospitals miles from home or admitted to NHS hospitals without a bed available. • The Police Commissioner for Greater Manchester, Tony Lloyd, having to set aside £200,000 of his budget to buy extra support from health professionals. • Hundreds of children being locked in police cells because police have nowhere to take them. • 1700, ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED mental health beds closed in England in the last 2 years. • Although the Royal College of Psychiatrists recommend an 85% occupancy rate, some wards are reaching 138%. • Patients are being discharged early to free up beds resulting in one patient being re-admitted 8 times in 12 months. • The NHS is spending millions of pounds sending severely ill patients hundreds of miles to private hospitals. • A mentally ill patient had to undergo a 5 and a 1/2 hour journey to Carlisle. • acutely mentally unwell children are being admitted to adult psychiatric wards. • A mentally ill 12 year old girl shouted out of a window to her mummy who had to travel 130 miles to visit her: ‘mummy don’t leave me’. • NHS mental health care is now in crisis, with duty workers across England reporting times when there are no beds available anywhere. • Mental illness is increasing due to stress. • The number of elderly people is increasing, while services for them are being cut. • Replacement services are not defined. • Replacement Services have not been piloted. • Replacement services are not evidence based. Puffin-Billy
  • Score: 0

2:34pm Mon 10 Mar 14

Puffin-Billy says...

wsw69 wrote:
Willow311 wrote:
Rememberscarborough wrote:
Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....
Agree totally. I've seen lots of people comment on how ludicrous the proposals are. Not seen any saying that closing a 15 bed psychiatric ward and reducing beds for older adults to less than half and shifting dementia patients to Salford is a great idea.
But then councillor Morgan is on the board of the trust that proposes to close the wards.
Well said.

Andy Morgan is a grade one oxygen thief.
Cllr Morgan and his ConDem government , and some Labour Politicians,

have private vested interests in the failure of the NHS. Until Boltonians get

that fact into their heads, we will lose services paid for by the taxpayer to

Private businesses.
[quote][p][bold]wsw69[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Willow311[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Rememberscarborough[/bold] wrote: Only a politician could state that every one supports him without actually being able to provide any evidence of this. The amount of opposition to the proposal would seem to suggest this "gentleman" might just be exaggerating his case a bit....[/p][/quote]Agree totally. I've seen lots of people comment on how ludicrous the proposals are. Not seen any saying that closing a 15 bed psychiatric ward and reducing beds for older adults to less than half and shifting dementia patients to Salford is a great idea. But then councillor Morgan is on the board of the trust that proposes to close the wards.[/p][/quote]Well said. Andy Morgan is a grade one oxygen thief.[/p][/quote]Cllr Morgan and his ConDem government , and some Labour Politicians, have private vested interests in the failure of the NHS. Until Boltonians get that fact into their heads, we will lose services paid for by the taxpayer to Private businesses. Puffin-Billy
  • Score: 0

8:01am Tue 11 Mar 14

Willow311 says...

Su long from CCG is quite happy to say that many people including member on the board of CCG are happy with proposal. Where are they?
Service user groups out on streets campaigning against. Staff groups and unions along with carer groups expressing concerns and holding protest rallies. Goveners on trust own board are on radio tomorrow to talk of how concerned they are....
A member on CCG asked the question 'would you be doing this if you did not need to save money?' This question like many others at the meeting went unanswered.
Sorry but I only see councillor Morgan from (Tory party) and Su Long CCG saying its a good idea.
Time to stop saving money and look more at saving lives I say....
Su long from CCG is quite happy to say that many people including member on the board of CCG are happy with proposal. Where are they? Service user groups out on streets campaigning against. Staff groups and unions along with carer groups expressing concerns and holding protest rallies. Goveners on trust own board are on radio tomorrow to talk of how concerned they are.... A member on CCG asked the question 'would you be doing this if you did not need to save money?' This question like many others at the meeting went unanswered. Sorry but I only see councillor Morgan from (Tory party) and Su Long CCG saying its a good idea. Time to stop saving money and look more at saving lives I say.... Willow311
  • Score: 1

8:10am Tue 11 Mar 14

Willow311 says...

Willow311 wrote:
Su long from CCG is quite happy to say that many people including member on the board of CCG are happy with proposal. Where are they?
Service user groups out on streets campaigning against. Staff groups and unions along with carer groups expressing concerns and holding protest rallies. Goveners on trust own board are on radio tomorrow to talk of how concerned they are....
A member on CCG asked the question 'would you be doing this if you did not need to save money?' This question like many others at the meeting went unanswered.
Sorry but I only see councillor Morgan from (Tory party) and Su Long CCG saying its a good idea.
Time to stop saving money and look more at saving lives I say....
Oh and I forgot about the people who have taken time to sign the petition against this proposal. 1000 signatures within a week.
Along with the number of Facebook groups against the closures, these are actually giving people a voice.
Your councillor needs your vote soon in order that they can stay in a job.
Don't let them forget it!!
[quote][p][bold]Willow311[/bold] wrote: Su long from CCG is quite happy to say that many people including member on the board of CCG are happy with proposal. Where are they? Service user groups out on streets campaigning against. Staff groups and unions along with carer groups expressing concerns and holding protest rallies. Goveners on trust own board are on radio tomorrow to talk of how concerned they are.... A member on CCG asked the question 'would you be doing this if you did not need to save money?' This question like many others at the meeting went unanswered. Sorry but I only see councillor Morgan from (Tory party) and Su Long CCG saying its a good idea. Time to stop saving money and look more at saving lives I say....[/p][/quote]Oh and I forgot about the people who have taken time to sign the petition against this proposal. 1000 signatures within a week. Along with the number of Facebook groups against the closures, these are actually giving people a voice. Your councillor needs your vote soon in order that they can stay in a job. Don't let them forget it!! Willow311
  • Score: 1

9:50am Tue 11 Mar 14

Dr Martin says...

Puffin-Billy wrote:
Yet more lies from Bolton CCG, the smiling assassins of the NHS.

And the statement by Care Minister Norman Lamb that:

"More people are being treated in the right settings for them, including

fewer people needing to go into hospitals.” ...is a

downright lie;

More people are being treated in increasingly inappropriate settings

(police cells) and fewer beds.

These cuts are part of a NATIONWIDE ideological attack on the NHS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk


/news/uk-england-cam


bridgeshire-26453052




They are an attack on the poor in Britain, who, because they are

increasingly poor, will suffer disproportionately more from

mental and physical ill-health.

And nothing will change unless and until we the people take to the

streets, and get involved in direct action to take our NHS back, and repeal

the Health and Social Care Act.

Mental illness is of no concern to right wing governments because the

person with the illness is not capable of working. They have no value. It's

an ideology that values nothing but the ability to fill the ruling class's

wallets.

A government is needed which values human beings for themselves and

not just for what they can get out of them; until we get one, the numbers

of mentally ill people (adults and children) being detained in prison cells

will keep on climbing.

Budgets for 'crisis resolution teams' fell by 1.7% in real terms compared

to 2011/12. Referrals rose 16%. These are the staff who provide

intensive home treatment in an effort to prevent acutely unwell people

being admitted to hospital.

Budgets for community mental health teams shrank by 0.03% in real

terms since 2011/12 but referrals have risen 13%. These teams give

ongoing support to patients to prevent their health deteriorating to crisis

point.

In 2013/14, there was a reduction of 2.36% in mental health budgets in

real terms, and 10 more trusts are expecting more cuts.

A so-called “concordat”, backed by NHS England, the Association of

Chief Police Officers, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists, says that

health-based places of safety and beds should be available “around the

clock” and that police cells shouldn’t be used because mental health

services are not available. The concordat clearly isn’t working in Greater

Manchester.

If the trust wants more people to receive care in their homes rather than

at hospital, why are they planning extra beds at Woodlands?

Su Long claims that there has been plenty of positive feedback about her

proposals. The following points are the result of current government

policy on mental health, which Su Long , Bolton CCG, and Conservative

Cllr Andy Morgan supports. They are not “positive feedback”:

• Section 188 threat of redundancy notices have been given to the

unions representing mental health staff, whilst at the same time,

recruitment of staff from Ireland and Portugal is being considered.

• Dinesh Bhugra, a psychiatrist who chairs the Mental Health

Foundation, says: “Around the country there is a lot of pressure on

community teams and lots of staff are going off sick. I cannot see any

logical explanation for closing beds.”

• People who could have been admitted voluntarily at an early stage in

their crisis are instead left in the community while their mental health

deteriorates to the point where they may need to be admitted under the

Mental Health Act for a long admission.

• Staff are being told to section people under a section 2 rather than a

3 so that patients stay less time on the ward.

• Manchester Health and Social Care Trust spending £1.75m on

out-of-area private beds in four months.

• Patients waiting in seclusion rooms until beds become available,

• Three-quarters of bed cuts (1,291 closures) are on admission

wards and psychiatric intensive care units for acutely unwell adults and

older people.

• Adult psychiatric wards running occupancy levels of more than

100%, meaning some patients are being sent to private hospitals miles

from home or admitted to NHS hospitals without a bed available.

• The Police Commissioner for Greater Manchester, Tony Lloyd,

having to set aside £200,000 of his budget to buy extra support from

health professionals.

• Hundreds of children being locked in police cells because police

have nowhere to take them.

• 1700, ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED mental health beds

closed in England in the last 2 years.

• Although the Royal College of Psychiatrists recommend an 85%

occupancy rate, some wards are reaching 138%.

• Patients are being discharged early to free up beds resulting in one

patient being re-admitted 8 times in 12 months.

• The NHS is spending millions of pounds sending severely ill

patients hundreds of miles to private hospitals.

• A mentally ill patient had to undergo a 5 and a 1/2 hour journey to

Carlisle.

• acutely mentally unwell children are being admitted to adult

psychiatric wards.

• A mentally ill 12 year old girl shouted out of a window to her mummy

who had to travel 130 miles to visit her: ‘mummy don’t leave me’.

• NHS mental health care is now in crisis, with duty workers across

England reporting times when there are no beds available anywhere.

• Mental illness is increasing due to stress.

• The number of elderly people is increasing, while services for them

are being cut.

• Replacement services are not defined.

• Replacement Services have not been piloted.

• Replacement services are not evidence based.
@Puffin-Billy

I do agree with your overall view of mental health services in this country but there are a few points I would like to reply to
"1700, ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED mental health beds closed in England in the last 2 years" -- this has been happening for decades nothing new there
"Mental illness is increasing due to stress" -- I think we all suffer from stress from time to time

"The number of elderly people is increasing, while services for them are being cut." again this has been happening for decades it's nothing new

"Around the country there is a lot of pressure on community teams and lots of staff are going off sick" -- NHS trust need to deal with these staff more effectively

"Staff are being told to section people under a section 2 rather than a 3 so that patients stay less time on the ward"

I believe the general view is that doctors and social workers tend to try and go for the least restrictive form of admission ie informal over a section 2 and section 2 over a section 3, why do want to keep people in for up to 6 months when there is a shorter alternative?
[quote][p][bold]Puffin-Billy[/bold] wrote: Yet more lies from Bolton CCG, the smiling assassins of the NHS. And the statement by Care Minister Norman Lamb that: "More people are being treated in the right settings for them, including fewer people needing to go into hospitals.” ...is a downright lie; More people are being treated in increasingly inappropriate settings (police cells) and fewer beds. These cuts are part of a NATIONWIDE ideological attack on the NHS. http://www.bbc.co.uk /news/uk-england-cam bridgeshire-26453052 They are an attack on the poor in Britain, who, because they are increasingly poor, will suffer disproportionately more from mental and physical ill-health. And nothing will change unless and until we the people take to the streets, and get involved in direct action to take our NHS back, and repeal the Health and Social Care Act. Mental illness is of no concern to right wing governments because the person with the illness is not capable of working. They have no value. It's an ideology that values nothing but the ability to fill the ruling class's wallets. A government is needed which values human beings for themselves and not just for what they can get out of them; until we get one, the numbers of mentally ill people (adults and children) being detained in prison cells will keep on climbing. Budgets for 'crisis resolution teams' fell by 1.7% in real terms compared to 2011/12. Referrals rose 16%. These are the staff who provide intensive home treatment in an effort to prevent acutely unwell people being admitted to hospital. Budgets for community mental health teams shrank by 0.03% in real terms since 2011/12 but referrals have risen 13%. These teams give ongoing support to patients to prevent their health deteriorating to crisis point. In 2013/14, there was a reduction of 2.36% in mental health budgets in real terms, and 10 more trusts are expecting more cuts. A so-called “concordat”, backed by NHS England, the Association of Chief Police Officers, and the Royal College of Psychiatrists, says that health-based places of safety and beds should be available “around the clock” and that police cells shouldn’t be used because mental health services are not available. The concordat clearly isn’t working in Greater Manchester. If the trust wants more people to receive care in their homes rather than at hospital, why are they planning extra beds at Woodlands? Su Long claims that there has been plenty of positive feedback about her proposals. The following points are the result of current government policy on mental health, which Su Long , Bolton CCG, and Conservative Cllr Andy Morgan supports. They are not “positive feedback”: • Section 188 threat of redundancy notices have been given to the unions representing mental health staff, whilst at the same time, recruitment of staff from Ireland and Portugal is being considered. • Dinesh Bhugra, a psychiatrist who chairs the Mental Health Foundation, says: “Around the country there is a lot of pressure on community teams and lots of staff are going off sick. I cannot see any logical explanation for closing beds.” • People who could have been admitted voluntarily at an early stage in their crisis are instead left in the community while their mental health deteriorates to the point where they may need to be admitted under the Mental Health Act for a long admission. • Staff are being told to section people under a section 2 rather than a 3 so that patients stay less time on the ward. • Manchester Health and Social Care Trust spending £1.75m on out-of-area private beds in four months. • Patients waiting in seclusion rooms until beds become available, • Three-quarters of bed cuts (1,291 closures) are on admission wards and psychiatric intensive care units for acutely unwell adults and older people. • Adult psychiatric wards running occupancy levels of more than 100%, meaning some patients are being sent to private hospitals miles from home or admitted to NHS hospitals without a bed available. • The Police Commissioner for Greater Manchester, Tony Lloyd, having to set aside £200,000 of his budget to buy extra support from health professionals. • Hundreds of children being locked in police cells because police have nowhere to take them. • 1700, ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED mental health beds closed in England in the last 2 years. • Although the Royal College of Psychiatrists recommend an 85% occupancy rate, some wards are reaching 138%. • Patients are being discharged early to free up beds resulting in one patient being re-admitted 8 times in 12 months. • The NHS is spending millions of pounds sending severely ill patients hundreds of miles to private hospitals. • A mentally ill patient had to undergo a 5 and a 1/2 hour journey to Carlisle. • acutely mentally unwell children are being admitted to adult psychiatric wards. • A mentally ill 12 year old girl shouted out of a window to her mummy who had to travel 130 miles to visit her: ‘mummy don’t leave me’. • NHS mental health care is now in crisis, with duty workers across England reporting times when there are no beds available anywhere. • Mental illness is increasing due to stress. • The number of elderly people is increasing, while services for them are being cut. • Replacement services are not defined. • Replacement Services have not been piloted. • Replacement services are not evidence based.[/p][/quote]@Puffin-Billy I do agree with your overall view of mental health services in this country but there are a few points I would like to reply to "1700, ONE THOUSAND SEVEN HUNDRED mental health beds closed in England in the last 2 years" -- this has been happening for decades nothing new there "Mental illness is increasing due to stress" -- I think we all suffer from stress from time to time "The number of elderly people is increasing, while services for them are being cut." again this has been happening for decades it's nothing new "Around the country there is a lot of pressure on community teams and lots of staff are going off sick" -- NHS trust need to deal with these staff more effectively "Staff are being told to section people under a section 2 rather than a 3 so that patients stay less time on the ward" I believe the general view is that doctors and social workers tend to try and go for the least restrictive form of admission ie informal over a section 2 and section 2 over a section 3, why do want to keep people in for up to 6 months when there is a shorter alternative? Dr Martin
  • Score: 0

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