LiveOur petition to improve Bolton's overcrowded trains goes to Downing Street

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Last updated
The Bolton News: Photograph of the Author by , politics reporter

This live event has finished

Summary

  • Our politics reporter Elaine O'Flynn is travelling to London today to hand in our petition demanding action over Bolton's overcrowded train services.
  • Elaine will hand the petition over in person at 10 Downing Street at 1.30pm.
  • We will also bring you live updates from prime minister's questions and the ensuing debate about our trains.

8:23pm

Evening all, I'm finally on the train home. It's been an incredible day and an absolute privilege to represent The Bolton News and you, our readers in Westminster.

The meeting with the DFT went ahead and we'll reveal in tomorrow's paper/online what was said - suffice to say, it's promising.

Obviously this is only the beginning - overcrowding won't be fixed overnight and no doubt there will be more battles to fight. 

But one thing that today has shown is that the pressure being put on rail bosses and ministers by the public and The Bolton News IS making a difference.

We are forcing them to take your concerns and stories seriously and find credible, workable solutions to make sure the problem of overcrowding is addressed - before a serious accident happens, like so many of you have warned.

So please writing to and emailing us with your stories, and of course we will keep you posted with any updates, announcements and news as it happens.

Thanks for following the blog today, hope you've enjoyed it.

Elaine

 

5:24pm

The three MPs were also due to present a copy of the petition in Parliament tonight, but that might have to wait until Monday depending on whether this meeting runs to time. Mr PM has got a copy all the same to consider.

5:21pm

David Crausby, Julie Hilling and Yasmin Qureshi are currently meeting with MP Stephen Hammond (I'm next door in Starbucks - you might recall The Bolton News was banned from attending, despite the fact we helped set it up!!), and this is one of things they will be asking for

5:19pm

In talks with Northern Rail, TFGM and First Transpennine Express recently at Julie Hilling's Westhoughton office, they discussed the possibility of asking for an assurance from DFT that when the Manchester to Liverpool and Liverpool to Wigan lines are electrified, that we get to keep the extra carriages.

5:19pm

In talks with Northern Rail, TFGM and First Transpennine Express recently at Julie Hilling's Westhoughton office, they discussed the possibility of asking for an assurance from DFT that when the Manchester to Liverpool and Liverpool to Wigan lines are electrified, that we get to keep the extra carriages.

5:17pm

There isn't currently a policy in place to say that if trains/carriages are released - i.e. If a line is electrified, they become spare - that they stay in the region hey were in.

5:16pm

To recap - rail bosses have consistently told us there are no spare diesel carriages across the country to move to Bolton, as the area/north west is set to be electrified soon.

5:15pm

Sorry guys - it's been a while since I've posted anything. It's been a mad old day and it's not over yet - Bolton's MPs are in crunch talks now with the Delartment for Transport to see what exactly can be done about overcrowding on the town's railways

3:37pm

The Bolton News: Elaine O'Flynn outside the Houses of Parliament

Elaine outside the Houses of Parliament

3:30pm

The Bolton News:

Outside number 10 with our petition...

1:36pm

WE'VE DONE IT!! The petition has gone in, hand delivered to Number 10!

12:51pm

We've now met David Crausby, just waiting on Julie Hilling and Yasmin  Qureshi, then it's off to Number 10 we go!

12:49pm

In other news, Steve the photographer has just been told by a scary looking police officer to delete some pics he took in the House of Commons. Woops...

12:46pm

PM David Cameron said he would look at the issue more closely, but said the government is spending millions electrifying northen lines and building the Northern Hub. Let's see what he makes of our petition!

12:43pm

Labour MP Jack Straw, the former Foreign Secretary, raised the issue of First Transpennine Express losing an eighth of its trains to ease overcrowding down south (as reported in today's Bolton News)

12:41pm

Apologies for the lack of updates - no laptops/phones allowed in the chamber. But lots was discussed - Ukraine, unemployment figures and celebrating that great British film, Gravity!

11:34am

All very exciting, I must say.

11:33am

We've made it to the House of Commons! Now waiting to be let into the chamber for PMQs. Not sure yet if I can bring my I pad in but will sneak it in if possible.

10:50am

10:50am

We're in London! There's not going to be any updates from me in a while while we travel to Westminster, but make sure you check back in later to see where we're up to

10:42am

Colin Faulds of Shrewbury Road, aged 30, wrote in to tell us about his wife's difficulties commuting from Bolton train station.

He said: "My wife sets off in plenty of time but can often not get on up to three trains at Bolton station due to overcrowding.

"She has seen people collapse in the summer due to crowded cars, and herself has pulled her back badly due to having to stand with no proper place to hold on.

"It's an absolute disgrace that as a major commuting town for. Manchester we can't get the trains these commuters pay for!"

10:35am

Got time for a few more readers' stories and opinions before we get off the train.

Gary Hough, aged 51 from Egerton, wrote he rarely signs petitions but was 'incensed' after reading about how eervices and carriages would be cut.

He said:"We always hear the call to encourage motorists to give up the car and commute via train, bus etc.

"It comes as a real disappointment to see the rail services not grasping this opportunity here and instead reducing an already overcrowded and unsafe, over-priced mode of transport.

"to see them trying to make further reductions in the volume of trains and their carriages is nothing short of sheer madness.

"Stop putting people's safety at risk for profit and get your collective acts together to build a better rail network for all."

10:28am

Just another 20 minutes to go before we reach London Euston, then it's a quick dash to Westminster to pick up our tickets for Prime Minister's Questions (PMQ). After that - to Downing Street!

10:04am

Jenna Sharples from Bradshaw travels from Hall-I-th-Wood station every day to Manchester Victoria for work, and said she's been documenting her nightmare journeys on Twitter for weeks.

Aged 20, Jenna said: "I have been late nearly every day for the past six weeks, and have received a written warning for my lateness T work.

"Not only have they put up the cost of my season ticket a few months ago, the service is also getting worse by the day.

"One day, the train platform is going to be so overcrowded, someone is going to fall in the path of an oncoming train

9:52am

And Jay Pinnock, aged 46 of Browich Street, said she signed our petition because of the 'degrading and shoddy service'.

She said: "When you get aboard it's often jamming your self in, squashed against other passengers, not able to turn around without coming nose to nose with someone.

"in an urgent emergency, such as a fire, most people would not get off in time.

"In a crash we'd be unconscious from smashing heads together.

"it's a disaster waiting to happen, and an absolute disgrace for 21st century public transport."

9:45am

David Evans of Rushford Grove regularly uses the trains from Bolton and said overcrowded services will just drive people back to their cars.

He added: "The trains from Bolton to Manchester are more and more overcrowded, to the point that last Monday it was almost impossible to reach the button to open the doors - as the passenger jammed against it could not turn around."

9:42am

Rupert Greenhalgh of Catterall Crescent has written in to say he thinks there is no leadership from railway bosses to find a solution.

The 45-year-old said: "The situation has got beyond simple overcrowding.

"it is only a matter of time before there is a serious accident caused by the lack of adequate rolling stock and a system which ensures proper health and safety on the rail lines in and around Bolton to Manchester."

9:38am

I'm reading through the petition. - I'll share just a handful of the letters and email we're received over the past three months.

Carrie Smith, aged 25, who lives in the town centre, signed the petition and said: "The service is already over-stretched, even before these most recent changes.

"I often can't get onto the train and when I do I spend the whole journey uncomfortably close to the other passengers.

"The trains regularly trigger anxiety attacks and make the rest of my working day extremely difficult."

9:03am

Steve has been located, and coffee is in hand. All is well. I'll share some of your horror stories in the petition over the next few hours.

8:48am

THE PETITION IS OJ THE TRAIN. I REPEAT, THE PETITION IS ON THE TRAIN. Phew! Now - time for coffee and to find my photographer

8:39am

In other news, I was interviewed on Tower Fm bright and early this morning by the lovely Simon Morykin. He's backed out campaign and has been chatting with Bolton commuter and MP David Crausby - who will formally present the petition in Parliament tonight - to ask why they are supporting it too.

8:36am

... and there's the petition! I won't lie, it's pretty heavy. Think carrying it all the way to Parliament counts as my exercise for the month

8:35am

The Bolton News:

8:33am

I'm currently waiting for my train to London Euston at Stockport - I daren't leave it to chance by getting the 7.55am from Bolton. You can read my very own overcrowding horror story when I took that train yesterday in today's paper

8:31am

There's nearly 1,500 signatures on this petition - and we've also printed out ALL of the horror stories commuters have sent to us for the government to read. Bit of light bed time reading for Mr Cameron

8:29am

Morning all, it's Elaine here. A very exciting day for us all at the BEN as our 1000-strong petition against overcrowding is on its way right to the Prime. Minister's front door. I'm going to be posting live updates throughout the day, keeping you up to speed with all the action.

Comments (20)

Please log in to enable comment sorting

8:40am Wed 5 Mar 14

Jim271 says...

How's it getting to London?

Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?
How's it getting to London? Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer? Jim271
  • Score: -10

8:56am Wed 5 Mar 14

one_love says...

i'll give you the live updates lol

11:00 - Elaine O'Flynn gets to number 10
11:04 - Elaine O'Flynn, hands the petition to david,
11:05 - Elaine O'Flynn heads home to bolton
11:06 - david puts the petition in the bin....
i'll give you the live updates lol 11:00 - Elaine O'Flynn gets to number 10 11:04 - Elaine O'Flynn, hands the petition to david, 11:05 - Elaine O'Flynn heads home to bolton 11:06 - david puts the petition in the bin.... one_love
  • Score: 13

8:58am Wed 5 Mar 14

The Righteous One says...

Jim271 wrote:
How's it getting to London?

Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?
Tax payer? where is that involved.

Since when has the BN been funded by people's income tax?
[quote][p][bold]Jim271[/bold] wrote: How's it getting to London? Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?[/p][/quote]Tax payer? where is that involved. Since when has the BN been funded by people's income tax? The Righteous One
  • Score: 20

9:25am Wed 5 Mar 14

oftbewildered2 says...

The Righteous One wrote:
Jim271 wrote:
How's it getting to London?

Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?
Tax payer? where is that involved.

Since when has the BN been funded by people's income tax?
can you imagine how much the postage would be on that weight of paper? Anyway - posted items get 'lost' - a petition handed in personally carries some weight (pardon the pun). Someone has got all this together and taken the trouble to go to present it, and still we get the moaners!!!!!!!!! There is no pleasing some people. Either we want something done about the problem or we don't. I too feel that this petition will not bear fruit, but no one ever got anywhere by just doing nothing.
[quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jim271[/bold] wrote: How's it getting to London? Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?[/p][/quote]Tax payer? where is that involved. Since when has the BN been funded by people's income tax?[/p][/quote]can you imagine how much the postage would be on that weight of paper? Anyway - posted items get 'lost' - a petition handed in personally carries some weight (pardon the pun). Someone has got all this together and taken the trouble to go to present it, and still we get the moaners!!!!!!!!! There is no pleasing some people. Either we want something done about the problem or we don't. I too feel that this petition will not bear fruit, but no one ever got anywhere by just doing nothing. oftbewildered2
  • Score: 9

9:47am Wed 5 Mar 14

Stan1966 says...

oftbewildered2 wrote:
The Righteous One wrote:
Jim271 wrote:
How's it getting to London?

Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?
Tax payer? where is that involved.

Since when has the BN been funded by people's income tax?
can you imagine how much the postage would be on that weight of paper? Anyway - posted items get 'lost' - a petition handed in personally carries some weight (pardon the pun). Someone has got all this together and taken the trouble to go to present it, and still we get the moaners!!!!!!!!! There is no pleasing some people. Either we want something done about the problem or we don't. I too feel that this petition will not bear fruit, but no one ever got anywhere by just doing nothing.
oftbewildered2 says...

"and still we get the moaners"

Yep. That's the real trouble with this town - too many people whinging about the efforts of others rather than getting off their backsides and doing something.

Jim271 - about your taxpayer comment. What on earth are you talking about?
[quote][p][bold]oftbewildered2[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]The Righteous One[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Jim271[/bold] wrote: How's it getting to London? Could you not put it in the post or is it another stunt at the cost of the taxpayer?[/p][/quote]Tax payer? where is that involved. Since when has the BN been funded by people's income tax?[/p][/quote]can you imagine how much the postage would be on that weight of paper? Anyway - posted items get 'lost' - a petition handed in personally carries some weight (pardon the pun). Someone has got all this together and taken the trouble to go to present it, and still we get the moaners!!!!!!!!! There is no pleasing some people. Either we want something done about the problem or we don't. I too feel that this petition will not bear fruit, but no one ever got anywhere by just doing nothing.[/p][/quote]oftbewildered2 says... "and still we get the moaners" Yep. That's the real trouble with this town - too many people whinging about the efforts of others rather than getting off their backsides and doing something. Jim271 - about your taxpayer comment. What on earth are you talking about? Stan1966
  • Score: 5

9:58am Wed 5 Mar 14

The Righteous One says...

Department for Transport
Great Minster House
33 Horseferry Road
London
SW1P 4DR
Tel: 0300 330 3000
Web Site: www.gov.uk/dft


Our Ref: 96879

Your Ref:


19 February 2014



Dear Mr Postlethwaite,


Thank you for your email of 27 January to Stephen Hammond MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport, regarding Bolton train services; I have been asked to respond.


When the Northern franchise was let in 2004 there was not expected to be any growth in passenger demand. Since the start of the franchise Northern has seen passenger numbers increase by around 40% across the franchise. Although the popularity of the railway is to be welcomed, it has led to some trains being crowded, particularly at peak times. Additional carriages were provided to Northern in 2008 and 2011 because of this growth.


Within their franchise agreement, Northern is required to use all reasonable endeavours to provide a minimum number of places on around 250 peak services each week day. The delivery of this capacity is monitored by Northern and discussed regularly with the DfT and Transport for Greater Manchester as well as other stakeholders.


The train service between Manchester and Bolton is sponsored and specified by Transport for Greater Manchester. You may wish to make your concerns known to them if you have not done so already.


It is important to remember that safety is the first priority of rail operations and a recent European Union report found that the UK has the safest rail network of all EU members – see http://ec.europa.eu/

commission_2010-2014

/kallas/headlines/ne

ws/2013/01/doc/swd(2

013)-10-part3.pdf for details.


With regard to the safety implications of overcrowding, I should explain that the body that monitors and enforces compliance with health and safety legislation on Britain’s rail network is the Office of Rail Regulation (‘ORR’).


It is for each train operating company to use its train fleet to best match the train capacity to the passenger demand expected on individual services. Operators are required to use all reasonable endeavours to minimise overcrowding. ORR has advised me that there is no legal limit on the number of passengers that can travel on a train. This is because trains differ from other modes of transport, such as buses and aeroplanes, where passenger numbers can affect stability. Trains are designed to operate safely and effectively even when they are loaded to maximum capacity.


The structural design of rail vehicles takes account of the maximum load including crowded conditions. In addition, the interior design contain features that minimise passenger injury in the event of an accident


It is true that in the event of a serious accident – a rare event in itself – on a heavily loaded train, it is an inescapable fact that the more passengers there are on the train, the greater the number of passengers at risk. However, research into a number of train accidents has shown that crowding itself did not contribute to the severity of the incident or to any injuries incurred.


You may wish to look at the policy statement issued by ORR on its website at http://www.rail-reg.

gov.uk/upload/pdf/tr

ain_crowding_positio

n_statement.pdf


As you may be aware, the Department for Transport has also announced additional investment in the railways of Northern England over the next few years. This includes electrification between Liverpool and Manchester, in Lancashire and in due course, between Manchester and York via Huddersfield. The works to deliver electrification between Manchester, Newton-le-Willows and Liverpool are under way. As well as offering longer trains and faster journeys on these routes, electrification means that diesel trains currently used between Liverpool, Manchester and Blackpool will become available to provide additional capacity for passengers across the railways of Northern England.


The second section of the Liverpool to Manchester line – between Liverpool and Newton-le-Willows – will be available for use by electric trains from December 2014. Once electric trains are able to operate on the Liverpool to Manchester line, it will be possible for the diesel trains used on local services along the route to transfer to provide additional capacity for passengers on other routes. It will be for the rail industry to develop plans for the redeployment of these diesel trains after 2014.


If Northern were to provide additional diesel trains for services between Bolton and Manchester prior to December 2014, they would have to come from within the Northern fleet or from a Rolling Stock Company. The Northern Franchise Agreement requires the operator to use its entire fleet of trains (allowing for normal maintenance) at peak times. It is for Northern to determine, based on the passenger demand on individual services, whether any changes can be made to reallocate carriages between the routes that they operate.


As I said, Transport for Greater Manchester sponsor and specify local services within Greater Manchester. If diesel rolling stock can be made available prior to December 2014, it would be for them to work with Northern on how best carriages might be redeployed from other local train services. It would be for Transport for Greater Manchester and the operators to develop the business case and any necessary funding for the provision of additional carriages for train services that call at Bolton.


Kind regards


Alistair Hobbs
Correspondence Manager
Rail Commercial
Department for Transport Great Minster House 33 Horseferry Road London SW1P 4DR Tel: 0300 330 3000 Web Site: www.gov.uk/dft Our Ref: 96879 Your Ref: 19 February 2014 Dear Mr Postlethwaite, Thank you for your email of 27 January to Stephen Hammond MP, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport, regarding Bolton train services; I have been asked to respond. When the Northern franchise was let in 2004 there was not expected to be any growth in passenger demand. Since the start of the franchise Northern has seen passenger numbers increase by around 40% across the franchise. Although the popularity of the railway is to be welcomed, it has led to some trains being crowded, particularly at peak times. Additional carriages were provided to Northern in 2008 and 2011 because of this growth. Within their franchise agreement, Northern is required to use all reasonable endeavours to provide a minimum number of places on around 250 peak services each week day. The delivery of this capacity is monitored by Northern and discussed regularly with the DfT and Transport for Greater Manchester as well as other stakeholders. The train service between Manchester and Bolton is sponsored and specified by Transport for Greater Manchester. You may wish to make your concerns known to them if you have not done so already. It is important to remember that safety is the first priority of rail operations and a recent European Union report found that the UK has the safest rail network of all EU members – see http://ec.europa.eu/ commission_2010-2014 /kallas/headlines/ne ws/2013/01/doc/swd(2 013)-10-part3.pdf for details. With regard to the safety implications of overcrowding, I should explain that the body that monitors and enforces compliance with health and safety legislation on Britain’s rail network is the Office of Rail Regulation (‘ORR’). It is for each train operating company to use its train fleet to best match the train capacity to the passenger demand expected on individual services. Operators are required to use all reasonable endeavours to minimise overcrowding. ORR has advised me that there is no legal limit on the number of passengers that can travel on a train. This is because trains differ from other modes of transport, such as buses and aeroplanes, where passenger numbers can affect stability. Trains are designed to operate safely and effectively even when they are loaded to maximum capacity. The structural design of rail vehicles takes account of the maximum load including crowded conditions. In addition, the interior design contain features that minimise passenger injury in the event of an accident It is true that in the event of a serious accident – a rare event in itself – on a heavily loaded train, it is an inescapable fact that the more passengers there are on the train, the greater the number of passengers at risk. However, research into a number of train accidents has shown that crowding itself did not contribute to the severity of the incident or to any injuries incurred. You may wish to look at the policy statement issued by ORR on its website at http://www.rail-reg. gov.uk/upload/pdf/tr ain_crowding_positio n_statement.pdf As you may be aware, the Department for Transport has also announced additional investment in the railways of Northern England over the next few years. This includes electrification between Liverpool and Manchester, in Lancashire and in due course, between Manchester and York via Huddersfield. The works to deliver electrification between Manchester, Newton-le-Willows and Liverpool are under way. As well as offering longer trains and faster journeys on these routes, electrification means that diesel trains currently used between Liverpool, Manchester and Blackpool will become available to provide additional capacity for passengers across the railways of Northern England. The second section of the Liverpool to Manchester line – between Liverpool and Newton-le-Willows – will be available for use by electric trains from December 2014. Once electric trains are able to operate on the Liverpool to Manchester line, it will be possible for the diesel trains used on local services along the route to transfer to provide additional capacity for passengers on other routes. It will be for the rail industry to develop plans for the redeployment of these diesel trains after 2014. If Northern were to provide additional diesel trains for services between Bolton and Manchester prior to December 2014, they would have to come from within the Northern fleet or from a Rolling Stock Company. The Northern Franchise Agreement requires the operator to use its entire fleet of trains (allowing for normal maintenance) at peak times. It is for Northern to determine, based on the passenger demand on individual services, whether any changes can be made to reallocate carriages between the routes that they operate. As I said, Transport for Greater Manchester sponsor and specify local services within Greater Manchester. If diesel rolling stock can be made available prior to December 2014, it would be for them to work with Northern on how best carriages might be redeployed from other local train services. It would be for Transport for Greater Manchester and the operators to develop the business case and any necessary funding for the provision of additional carriages for train services that call at Bolton. Kind regards Alistair Hobbs Correspondence Manager Rail Commercial The Righteous One
  • Score: -3

11:05am Wed 5 Mar 14

MarkAllRead says...

What I find bizarre about the whole situation is that Northern Rail are effectively turning away customers and profit by restricting usage. If this was a shop or a café and it was so popular that people were crammed in and being turned away, you'd buy bigger premises and make more money. Since this is a private operation these days, you'd think they'd see this?
What I find bizarre about the whole situation is that Northern Rail are effectively turning away customers and profit by restricting usage. If this was a shop or a café and it was so popular that people were crammed in and being turned away, you'd buy bigger premises and make more money. Since this is a private operation these days, you'd think they'd see this? MarkAllRead
  • Score: 8

11:23am Wed 5 Mar 14

The Righteous One says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
What I find bizarre about the whole situation is that Northern Rail are effectively turning away customers and profit by restricting usage. If this was a shop or a café and it was so popular that people were crammed in and being turned away, you'd buy bigger premises and make more money. Since this is a private operation these days, you'd think they'd see this?
Not really as teh Northern Rail is only a franchise and they have to lease the rollingstock from Porterbrook. Northern Rail are not allowed to buy their own rolling stock (that is one of the conditions of the franchise).

As it is there are no spare diesel rolling stock in the UK, and has been shown on TV News over the last couple of days the North of teh country's rail service is going to get worse as Porterbrook have literally taken 9 train units from First TPE (from April 2015) and now renting them out to Chiltern Railwasy in the South East (for a lines that serves the North West) and, according to reports coming from DfT yesterday, it looks as though Northern Rail will have to give up 2 of its train units to give to First TPE!!!!

Privatisation has created too many rail companies, whether it be the train operating companies the leasing companies the cleaning companies etc etc etc, and created massive confusion as to who owns or runs what - even the DfT don't really know and they just keep passing the buck!!!
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: What I find bizarre about the whole situation is that Northern Rail are effectively turning away customers and profit by restricting usage. If this was a shop or a café and it was so popular that people were crammed in and being turned away, you'd buy bigger premises and make more money. Since this is a private operation these days, you'd think they'd see this?[/p][/quote]Not really as teh Northern Rail is only a franchise and they have to lease the rollingstock from Porterbrook. Northern Rail are not allowed to buy their own rolling stock (that is one of the conditions of the franchise). As it is there are no spare diesel rolling stock in the UK, and has been shown on TV News over the last couple of days the North of teh country's rail service is going to get worse as Porterbrook have literally taken 9 train units from First TPE (from April 2015) and now renting them out to Chiltern Railwasy in the South East (for a lines that serves the North West) and, according to reports coming from DfT yesterday, it looks as though Northern Rail will have to give up 2 of its train units to give to First TPE!!!! Privatisation has created too many rail companies, whether it be the train operating companies the leasing companies the cleaning companies etc etc etc, and created massive confusion as to who owns or runs what - even the DfT don't really know and they just keep passing the buck!!! The Righteous One
  • Score: 3

12:01pm Wed 5 Mar 14

MarkAllRead says...

Same difference then effectively, you'd think that Porterbrook would buy more carriages to lease out. If I were running a hire car company and I had more customers than cars, I know what I'd do about it.
Same difference then effectively, you'd think that Porterbrook would buy more carriages to lease out. If I were running a hire car company and I had more customers than cars, I know what I'd do about it. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 5

12:14pm Wed 5 Mar 14

The Righteous One says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
Same difference then effectively, you'd think that Porterbrook would buy more carriages to lease out. If I were running a hire car company and I had more customers than cars, I know what I'd do about it.
Not quite as it is not Porterbrook, as they are only the leasing company that is contracted to DfT, but ultimately it is the DfT that buy the rolling stock.


As it is they have bought over 2500 new trains of which 40 will be heading up north and the rest will be for teh South East!
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: Same difference then effectively, you'd think that Porterbrook would buy more carriages to lease out. If I were running a hire car company and I had more customers than cars, I know what I'd do about it.[/p][/quote]Not quite as it is not Porterbrook, as they are only the leasing company that is contracted to DfT, but ultimately it is the DfT that buy the rolling stock. As it is they have bought over 2500 new trains of which 40 will be heading up north and the rest will be for teh South East! The Righteous One
  • Score: 2

12:40pm Wed 5 Mar 14

MarkAllRead says...

Still, whoever it is, the point remains. We need more trains, we need bigger platforms, we need bigger car parks at the stations, we need bigger stations. The country is crying out for industry like this, let's get it on.
Still, whoever it is, the point remains. We need more trains, we need bigger platforms, we need bigger car parks at the stations, we need bigger stations. The country is crying out for industry like this, let's get it on. MarkAllRead
  • Score: 3

12:54pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Lynn57 says...

MarkAllRead wrote:
Still, whoever it is, the point remains. We need more trains, we need bigger platforms, we need bigger car parks at the stations, we need bigger stations. The country is crying out for industry like this, let's get it on.
The station at Bolton is reminiscent of seventies Eastern Europe. Bare, cold, shabby and dreary. I feel genuinely sorry for the staff that work there trying to cram people on. The abuse that they get from travellers who have paid in excess of a grand a year is terrible as it is simply not their fault.
[quote][p][bold]MarkAllRead[/bold] wrote: Still, whoever it is, the point remains. We need more trains, we need bigger platforms, we need bigger car parks at the stations, we need bigger stations. The country is crying out for industry like this, let's get it on.[/p][/quote]The station at Bolton is reminiscent of seventies Eastern Europe. Bare, cold, shabby and dreary. I feel genuinely sorry for the staff that work there trying to cram people on. The abuse that they get from travellers who have paid in excess of a grand a year is terrible as it is simply not their fault. Lynn57
  • Score: 4

12:57pm Wed 5 Mar 14

The Righteous One says...

Dont even start me off with carparks as the one at Bolton station will be closing for good, sometime this year, and there will be no replacement! So where are 200+ cars (ones that park in the carpark, the sidestreet opposite the carpark and the sidestreets behind Siansburys) goingt to park???

Platforms at Bolton station can take up to 12 coaches. Moses gate used to be to take 6 coaches until they got rid of teh old platforms, but Kearsley, Farnworth and Clifton can take 6 coaches!

Whilst Labour were in power they only ordered what was necessary and they predeicted no increase in passenger numbers for the Bolton line, although they were already rising by over 13% a year!!!! Tories/LibDems come in and scrap order to have a wholesale review and save money!!!!!

I never saw any reason as to why the old Trinity Street station was pulled down - yes it would have cost more to restore than going for the easy option for being pulled down (like they have done with most other stations on teh Bolton lines)

But teh Government are not that overly concerned and would rather spend the money for people in teh South East. Again as shown on BBC NWT the other night, in Greater London the spending (per person) on public transport is over £5000, whilst in Greater Manchester it is just over £800 per person.

Just makes a complete mockery of having Westminster or even a privatised network - not just that Greater London actually have different transport laws than the rest of the UK - why????
Dont even start me off with carparks as the one at Bolton station will be closing for good, sometime this year, and there will be no replacement! So where are 200+ cars (ones that park in the carpark, the sidestreet opposite the carpark and the sidestreets behind Siansburys) goingt to park??? Platforms at Bolton station can take up to 12 coaches. Moses gate used to be to take 6 coaches until they got rid of teh old platforms, but Kearsley, Farnworth and Clifton can take 6 coaches! Whilst Labour were in power they only ordered what was necessary and they predeicted no increase in passenger numbers for the Bolton line, although they were already rising by over 13% a year!!!! Tories/LibDems come in and scrap order to have a wholesale review and save money!!!!! I never saw any reason as to why the old Trinity Street station was pulled down - yes it would have cost more to restore than going for the easy option for being pulled down (like they have done with most other stations on teh Bolton lines) But teh Government are not that overly concerned and would rather spend the money for people in teh South East. Again as shown on BBC NWT the other night, in Greater London the spending (per person) on public transport is over £5000, whilst in Greater Manchester it is just over £800 per person. Just makes a complete mockery of having Westminster or even a privatised network - not just that Greater London actually have different transport laws than the rest of the UK - why???? The Righteous One
  • Score: 5

2:37pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Eliz63 says...

I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously.

The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.
I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously. The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont. Eliz63
  • Score: 5

2:46pm Wed 5 Mar 14

The Righteous One says...

Eliz63 wrote:
I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously.

The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.
That is PMQ's every week - laughters and jeers from the Government to the shadow Government and others!!!!!

It is VERY pathetic!
[quote][p][bold]Eliz63[/bold] wrote: I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously. The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.[/p][/quote]That is PMQ's every week - laughters and jeers from the Government to the shadow Government and others!!!!! It is VERY pathetic! The Righteous One
  • Score: 3

4:39pm Wed 5 Mar 14

Darren1951 says...

Eliz63 wrote:
I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously.

The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.
Thank you for that Eliz63. I gather that PMQs is repeated on the BBC Parliament channel some time after 23:00, so I'll definitely be watching it. If it's as you say, I'll be writing letters, first to Jake Berry, my (Tory) MP, and then to my local newspaper. Like so many others, I've found PMQs in recent years to be nothing more than a sick joke.
[quote][p][bold]Eliz63[/bold] wrote: I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously. The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.[/p][/quote]Thank you for that Eliz63. I gather that PMQs is repeated on the BBC Parliament channel some time after 23:00, so I'll definitely be watching it. If it's as you say, I'll be writing letters, first to Jake Berry, my (Tory) MP, and then to my local newspaper. Like so many others, I've found PMQs in recent years to be nothing more than a sick joke. Darren1951
  • Score: 2

7:02pm Wed 5 Mar 14

JustBecause says...

Ever heard of online petitions? Would have save a lot travel......
Ever heard of online petitions? Would have save a lot travel...... JustBecause
  • Score: -1

11:08pm Wed 5 Mar 14

hal pel says...

Eliz63 wrote:
I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously.

The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.
Tuition fees were first introduced across the entire United Kingdom in September 1998 as a means of funding tuition to undergraduate and postgraduate certificate students at universities, with students being required to pay up to £1,000 a year for tuition. The U.K had a Labour Government in 1998.
[quote][p][bold]Eliz63[/bold] wrote: I saw Prime Ministers Question time Live today and when Jack Straw brought up the topic of trains being moved from the North to the South it was greeted with a howl of laughter and jeers from the MPs in parliament! Great to see this is being taken seriously. The introduction of university student fees by the Tory government, has resulted of 100s of Bolton students chosing to live at home to save money and therefore commuting into Manchester Universities. Plus the job situation... I could go on, but wont.[/p][/quote]Tuition fees were first introduced across the entire United Kingdom in September 1998 as a means of funding tuition to undergraduate and postgraduate certificate students at universities, with students being required to pay up to £1,000 a year for tuition. The U.K had a Labour Government in 1998. hal pel
  • Score: 2

12:51am Thu 6 Mar 14

wsw69 says...

At least the petition has arrived at the PM's door. Trouble is that the present incumbent of Number 10 is a complete waste of space. Will anything happen? I, like so many others, very much doubt it.

The total and utter balls up and devastation of our railways was masterminded by the Tory government of Harold Macmillan in 1961, the year I was born, by appointing Dr Richard Beeching to get chopping the railways lock, rolling stock and barrel.

He wielded his axe by axiing from 7000 stations to under 4500, over 70,000 British Railways jobs to be lost over 3 years, over 350,000 goods wagons to be scrapped............
....................
........ and the list goes on.

Where did all the goods end up? Yes, on the roads of Britain, and we are paying sorely now for it all.

The bloody railways were invented here and as usual we are utter 5h1te are being able to run them.

The whole country, the whole government are not fit for purpose. The place is a shambles, a disgrace and the biggest sufferers are, anything north of Watford, which by the way is also a 5H1th0lE.
At least the petition has arrived at the PM's door. Trouble is that the present incumbent of Number 10 is a complete waste of space. Will anything happen? I, like so many others, very much doubt it. The total and utter balls up and devastation of our railways was masterminded by the Tory government of Harold Macmillan in 1961, the year I was born, by appointing Dr Richard Beeching to get chopping the railways lock, rolling stock and barrel. He wielded his axe by axiing from 7000 stations to under 4500, over 70,000 British Railways jobs to be lost over 3 years, over 350,000 goods wagons to be scrapped............ .................... ........ and the list goes on. Where did all the goods end up? Yes, on the roads of Britain, and we are paying sorely now for it all. The bloody railways were invented here and as usual we are utter 5h1te are being able to run them. The whole country, the whole government are not fit for purpose. The place is a shambles, a disgrace and the biggest sufferers are, anything north of Watford, which by the way is also a 5H1th0lE. wsw69
  • Score: 2

7:14am Thu 6 Mar 14

Wigan Trotter says...

Are they going to provide us in the North West with new modern 4/5/6 coach multiple units like they have down south to replace the 40 year old 2/3 out of date Class 142 Pacers and Class 150 Sprinters.

The answer is no, just more older units from other area's.

What makes the situation look sick is the fact that in London where most of the new trains, buses and underground units are and have been provided, it is full of foreigners.

In other words, they come first and we in areas like the north west do not matter.
Are they going to provide us in the North West with new modern 4/5/6 coach multiple units like they have down south to replace the 40 year old 2/3 out of date Class 142 Pacers and Class 150 Sprinters. The answer is no, just more older units from other area's. What makes the situation look sick is the fact that in London where most of the new trains, buses and underground units are and have been provided, it is full of foreigners. In other words, they come first and we in areas like the north west do not matter. Wigan Trotter
  • Score: 4

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