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Fury as Council axes Holocaust memorial service
11:19am Saturday 27th January 2007
Comments (157) Have your say »
WIDESPREAD criticism has been levelled at Bolton Council for scrapping the town's annual Holocaust Memorial Day ceremony.
Town Hall chiefs have instead decided to hold an event as part of a genocide memorial day in June.
What do you think about this decision? Add your comment at the foot of this page
The council says that would be more inclusive.
But the decision to scrap the Holocaust Memorial event - made following consultation with Bolton Interfaith Council - has triggered criticism from religious leaders and councillors, some of whom said they were unaware of the move.
Liberal Democrat councillor Richard Silvester said: "I am thoroughly ashamed at the decision of Bolton Council and the Bolton Interfaith Council. I believe this is disgraceful and I am embarrassed to call myself a representative of this town."
Services are being held across the world to mark Holocaust Memorial Day today, which commemorates the liberation of the Auschwitz concentration camp.
Between 1940 and 1945, the Nazis killed about 1.5 million people at Auschwitz, mainly Jews but also Poles, gipsies, Russian prisoners of war and people of other nationalities.
Millions died in other concentration camps.
Bolton has held an annual ceremony in the Town Hall for the last seven years, which has been overseen by Rabbi Joseph Lever of the United Synagogue. Candles have been lit by children.
But this year, the flying of the Town Hall flags at half-mast on Sunday will be the only sign of remembrance.
Rabbi Lever said: "I was very upset not to be consulted about the decision and I mourn the fact that the ceremony will not be going ahead in Bolton.
"Schoolchildren have been involved and it was always a moving ceremony which would be attended by a sizeable crowd."
Cllr Silvester said: "The Holocaust should be remembered for all of the people who were persecuted and died, not just Jews, but disabled people, the mentally ill, Romanies, black people, old people, gay and lesbian people."
Labour councillor Frank White, Bolton Council's executive member for cohesion, said: "Councillors are appalled that this decision has been made without the consultation that this serious subject needs. It is sending out all the wrong messages.
"The service has always been sensitive and inclusive of all religions in the town. But this is not just about religion, it is about remembering an evil power who tried to persecute the disabled, sick, homosexual and others."
David Arnold, from north Manchester, is a Holocaust educator and has advised local councils and the Home Office about Holocaust Memorial Days.
He said: "Whoever made the decision failed to understand how the lessons of the Holocaust should challenge us to face up to the fact that racism, prejudice and intolerance still exist in today's society.
"The kindest thing I can say about this decision is that it is a gross error of misjudgement."
Louis Rapaport, president of the Jewish Representative Council of Greater Manchester, said: "There may not be many Jews in Bolton, but the day is supposed to have an educational message to the whole community.
"I can't help feeling the decision was influenced by Bolton's large Muslim community."
Bolton Interfaith Council, which is made up of Christian, Muslim and Hindu representatives, suggested the idea of Genocide Memorial Day to Bolton Council.
Tony McNeile, secretary of the Interfaith Council, said a general memorial day would be more inclusive of all faiths.
He added: "It does not mean bypassing the Holocaust or ignoring it because it will be included in the memorial day in June. It is one of the great tragedies of the world, but it is not the only one."
The Vicar of Bolton, Canon Michael Williams, who is treasurer of the Interfaith Council, said: "The service is a bit artificial because we have never had a Jewish community to support it.
"By changing the day it makes the point that it is not about one genocide, but it is about many."
A Bolton Council statement said: "We are hoping that by supporting the Interfaith Council's idea to join with Genocide Memorial Day and by holding an outdoors event, it will allow many more people to become involved.
"The change does not mean that the Holocaust is being ignored. It will be remembered as part of the Genocide event, which the Interfaith Council feels will be more inclusive."
Cllr Cliff Morris, Leader of Bolton Council, refused to say who made the final decision to cancel the ceremony.
"The Interfaith Council has always organised the event and Bolton Council went along with their recommendation," he said.
"We did not want to upset anyone or snub the Holocaust. It will be marked in June and the flag will still be flown at half-mast this weekend."
In neighbouring Bury, faith and political leaders joined the public for a service at Bury Town Hall to mark Holocaust Memorial Day on Thursday.
Your Say YourThe Bolton News
Daisy, says...
10:42pm Fri 26 Jan 07
'Artificial'!
Anyone who works for Bolton council is supposed to value diversity and promote community involvement.
It does not matter that Bolton council consider there isn't a Jewish community to support the memorial day...we all need to remember what happened.
Anne Barton, says...
1:08am Sat 27 Jan 07
The Russians lost 20 million during the second world war yet we do not have a special day to remember the Russians.
Of course we are all very respectful to the memory of the six million jews that were murdered during the war but I feel we must remember all the suffering of all of humanity together. No group ought to have special victim status.
Millions worldwide have been murdered in countless wars and every person lost ought to be remembered on one special day.
To have separate days of rememberence for Jews, Arabs, Catholics etc only serves to ghettoize the suffering and lessens the impact and message.
A Kay, says...
10:39am Sat 27 Jan 07
carl, says...
11:20am Sat 27 Jan 07
Emma Dodds, says...
1:13pm Sat 27 Jan 07
If certain religions have their own day of ceremony then people will just take an interest in their own particular religion.
The Bolton News seems to be blowing this story way out of proportion. Because the council want to have one day to remember all victims of genocide together it doesn't mean that the council is anti-jewish.
Peter, says...
1:13pm Sat 27 Jan 07
JB, says...
1:14pm Sat 27 Jan 07
charlotte, says...
1:41pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Barak, says...
1:58pm Sat 27 Jan 07
The danger is, as others have pointed out, that holocaust day could become marginalised and seen as a jewish event, when as Cllr Silvester says it is really about the persecution and suffering of all peoples.
Can you imagine the publicity generated if David Beckham, who regularly attended synagoge with his grandad, were to attend here in Bolton? The event wouldn't be described as artificial then.
Ian Upton, says...
2:16pm Sat 27 Jan 07
I know the family and the sister of this best man was beaten in a racist attack.
When the police were called the mother was arested and her career as a teacher put on the line because she had tried to defend herself when the thugs went to attack her as well.
What happened to the thugs? well they didnt turn up at court against the Teacher and not one police officer attmpted to arrest them even though a call was put in after her daughter was visibly beaten and injured.
Is it any wonder Jewish people dont want to be a part of Bolton?
gorgeous george, says...
2:17pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Christo, says...
2:51pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Chris B, says...
3:01pm Sat 27 Jan 07
It doesn't help that the good ol' US of A is trying to make up for the fact that they were late showing up for the last two world wars by being REALLY punctual for the next one...
M. Aziz, says...
3:27pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Sadly there are people today who preach hatred like that in Germany in the thirties, for this reason alone it is better to remember what the Holocaust means and then mean it when we say, NEVER AGAIN.
Ben, says...
3:29pm Sat 27 Jan 07
the life of a hundred Gentiles is not worth one Jewish toenail? It was proclaimed by Rabbi Yaakov Perrin, on Feb. 27, 1994 and quoted by the N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994
Old Farnworthian, says...
3:53pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Fair enough, but how come other groups who were persecuted by the nazis don't get compensated? The nazis knocked the **** out of our country during WW2 and at the end of the war we ended up helping tp pay for Germany to be re-built.
If Israel are entitled to billions in compensation then Germany should compensate civillians who were killed in Britain too.
pete, says...
4:05pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Ben wrote:spot on ben, jewish groups have played on sympathy for what happened to them under hitler while at the same time israel persecutes the palestinians.the news always seems to be biased towards israel for reasons i cant understand.im sorry for jews that were murdered during the war but that doesnt give israel the right to do what it wants.
60 million died in WWII, I refuse to accept that the Jews are more important than any of the others, even though they think they are.
the life of a hundred Gentiles is not worth one Jewish toenail? It was proclaimed by Rabbi Yaakov Perrin, on Feb. 27, 1994 and quoted by the N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994
Anne Barton, says...
4:59pm Sat 27 Jan 07
UK Daily Pundit - blogger, says...
5:10pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Commentator, says...
6:20pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Grist to your mill Frank for standing up to inapropriate manipulation :The majority are with you.
Commentator, says...
6:45pm Sat 27 Jan 07
MG, says...
6:55pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Thank the Lord I am a softy southerner. You people of Bolton should be ashamed.
lindy loo, says...
6:59pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Pauline Smith, says...
9:40pm Sat 27 Jan 07
What a great idea adopted by the Interfaith Council! Should encompass all genocides and not just one. Anyway what's in a name? Finally, don't let the hound dogs get to any one!
Why are the Muslims being implicated again by Louis Rapaport? Was he/she present at any meetings? Proud and Fair Boltonion
Reason, says...
9:41pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Yes there has been many different mass murderous episodes in history but this saw the virtual, pre-planned eradication of a part of the European community on an industrial scale. Jews have been one of the people's of Europe for well over a thousand years. Its the fact that in this case someone was trying to commit genocide on one of the European races. There are 7 million Scots in Scotland I believe, so imagine if someone came along and tried to wipe them off the earth being almost successful and that in 50 years time would we say, well its not worth remembering in itself? No we would want our children to learn from such an act and if we continue to remember the Holocaust hopefully we will see no such thing in Europe again.
The Gypsies do have a separate day to remember what happened to them but living in countries who spent the post war years behind the curtain and still live amongst people hostile to there living alongside them its not promoted over there as its believed it would heighten existing tensions.
Peter, says...
10:21pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Power Ranger, says...
11:50pm Sat 27 Jan 07
Pauline Smith wrote:I think polls like this are a waste of time because the question is usually very leading and designed to get a certain result. The council decision to have one day commemorate all victims is a very clever idea. I cant see how anyone can justify one group having their own day.
Completely agree with this decision. The majority of comments here are in favour, but isn't it ironic that the vote on this page is the reverse. I wonder why?
What a great idea adopted by the Interfaith Council! Should encompass all genocides and not just one. Anyway what's in a name? Finally, don't let the hound dogs get to any one!
Why are the Muslims being implicated again by Louis Rapaport? Was he/she present at any meetings? Proud and Fair Boltonion
Jewish groups however will probably say that this is anti-semtism, which it isnt. That is their way of intimidating anyone who is critical. Like when people are accused of being closet homosexuals if they object to gay adoption, or being racist if they condemn muslims.
Reason, says...
12:09am Sun 28 Jan 07
Yes there has been many different mass murderous episodes in history but this saw the virtual, pre-planned eradication of a part of the European community on an industrial scale. Jews have been one of the people's of Europe for well over a thousand years. Its the fact that in this case someone was trying to commit genocide on one of the European races. There are 7 million Scots in Scotland I believe, so imagine if someone came along and tried to wipe them off the earth being almost successful and that in 50 years time would we say, well its not worth remembering in itself? No we would want our children to learn from such an act and if we continue to remember the Holocaust hopefully we will see no such thing in Europe again.
The Gypsies do have a separate day to remember what happened to them but living in countries who spent the post war years behind the curtain and still live amongst people hostile to there living alongside them its not promoted over there as its believed it would heighten existing tensions.
lindy loo, says...
12:26am Sun 28 Jan 07
peace
Nazi or Islamist ignoramus, says...
5:51am Sun 28 Jan 07
Ignoramus, says...
6:07am Sun 28 Jan 07
Boltonbloke, says...
10:40am Sun 28 Jan 07
Arthur Leaburn, says...
10:43am Sun 28 Jan 07
Regretfully it appears that the liberal world view, which has held such sway since the early 1960s is now in its final stages, giving birth to a new era of intolerance, reflected in the growth of far right political groupings around the world.
We ought not be surprised by this though as history has demonstrated, clearly and decisively, that a sea change in politics often manifests itself every 40 years or so.
The Liberal and quite possibly the democratic era are giving way to a new mould of political attitude, I've seen this develop slowly since around 1990 and now it appears that this new attitude is gathering pace.
Brian, says...
12:53pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Marco, says...
1:04pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I would like pose the following question to one of the earlier posters (tubby scruff) who asked "what about the Arabs and Palestinians killed by the Jews?" Well I'm afraid, when Jews are defending themselves from Palestinian terrorists who want Israel destroyed, deaths are inevitable.
I wander if he could also afford me the courtesy of answering me this question, how many innocent civilians have been killed by Jews, compared to that of Muslims. The vast contrast will be quite startling. Yes please do include Iraq, 9/11, Mumbai train blasts, Beslan, Bali, Kenya (embassy bombings), Thailand, 7/7, Madrid Bombings etc.
I know it may be rather unpalatable to some, but Israel cannot be blamed for every problem in the Arab world.
John McNabb, says...
2:30pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Why is there no mention of suicide bombing by the Israelis on the British and the Palestinians? Lets add a few examples:
August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.
November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants.
November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.
July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing and injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.
December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate.
December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.
December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.
1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes.
January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.
January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.
January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.
I can go on and on and on
ian, says...
2:40pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Bravo to the council, they are actually doing what the many are thinking!!
Marco, says...
3:14pm Sun 28 Jan 07
That is rather a feeble attempt to divert the attention away from Islamic Terrorism. Can you provide credible sources by the way to substantiate all those "alleged" attacks?
I'm afraid, Islamic Terrorism makes terrorism from ALL other religions seem inconsequential and insignificant. I only need to highlight one atrocity of Islamic Terrorism, which consequently, dwarfs all the occurrences in that list put together. In 9/11, around 3000 innocent people lost their life, which is vastly more than the total number in your whole list isnt it? Here are just some cases of that vile occurrence of Islamic Terrorism. I emphasise the word some. Obviously 1000s more innocents have been killed in Iraq etc.
Examples of attacks
7 March 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Toiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. Uttar Pradesh government officials.
9 November 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved.
29 October 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.
23 July 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.
7 July 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.
4 February 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people.
3 September 2004 Approximately 344 civilians including 186 children, are massacred during the Beslan school hostage crisis by Chechen Islamist Terrorists or "Chechen Separatists".
11 March 2004 - Multiple bombings on trains near Madrid, Spain. 191 killed, 1460 injured. (alleged link to Al-Qaeda)
16 May 2004- Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.
12 October 2002 - Bombing in Bali nightclub. 202 killed, 300 injured.
24 September 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured.
7 May 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured
9 March 2002 - Café suicide bombing in Jerusalem; 11 killed, 54 injured
3 March 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured
13 December 2001-Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba.
11 September 2001 - September 11, 2001 attacks 4 planes hijacked and crashed into World Trade Center and The Pentagon by 19 hijackers. Nearly 3000 dead.
7 August 1998 - 1998 United States embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya. 224 dead. 4000+ injured
25 June 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.
26 February 1993 - World Trade Center bombing. 6 killed.
18 April 1983 - April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing in Beirut, Lebanon. 63 killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamist_terrorism
Marco, says...
3:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Israel's legitimate responses to Palestinian terrorist attacks don't count by the way. Im referring to the deliberate murder of innocent civilians here, much like the suicide bombings and the incessant firing of rockets indiscriminately into Israel. It is manifestly apparent that the Palestinians hate the Israelis more than they love their own kind anyway, with all this in-house fighting going on. Same thing happening in Iraq too it would seem.
Daniel Allen, says...
3:58pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It is a bold and brave step to commemorate all innocent killed in war and conflict around the world, in both past and present conflicts. Its time that people realise that its not just the Jewish Community who have suffered during the war, but many many others as well. If we live in a global and tolerant community called UK, then surely we should all remember people killed in conflict. People of all religions and nationality. It does not make monitary sense to remember all the victims separately, based on ethnic and religious divide.
I think that its time that the Jewish community realise that no one is trying to overtake the importance of the Holocaust, but merely explain the importance of it and other tragedies as well.
nblum, says...
4:02pm Sun 28 Jan 07
it is sad that Bolton council has taken this decision as result of political pressure
holocaust day was a date to remind the world of the dangers that religous intolerance can lead to. A lesson that still requires to be learnt 60 years afetr the war
Paul Laurie, says...
4:06pm Sun 28 Jan 07
They say that we are being prepared for the 2nd Holocaust - which is Iran's direct or indirect nuclear assault on Israel and the Jewish people. Apparently, that preparation is well advanced in Bolton.
Ismail B, says...
4:23pm Sun 28 Jan 07
P Arkwright, says...
4:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Can we not move with the times without being accused of being anti-semitic?
They want Bolton to organise a HMD event, get us thier despite us kicking and screaming and ram a single message down our throats. But I will welcome and attend a broader genocide commemorating event.
Ponder, says...
4:55pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It is also strange that some of the posts above use this and every opportunity to demonise the muslims to protect contemporary Israeli zionist crimes the same way Hitler blamed Jews for all the 'bad' in Germany and elsewhere. It seems to me that the some of the oppressed have become the oppressors today and are taking out their past frustrations on innocent Palestinian civilians (collateral damage as they say)- surely history is supposed to teach lessons that we do not repeat on any other race or religion in the future!
By the way for those who may not realise in their 'muslim bashing' emails that it was the Europeans and Christians (past) who persecuted and killed the Jews, causing the holocaust (and other historical inquisitions) - it was not the Palestinians. Why should the Palestinian people pay for the crime committed by the Europeans and earlier crusades ?
Surely, no matter how biased you may be against Muslims and Palestinians you should focus on the original oppressors against the Jewish people. You should also notice how the far right is rising again across the whole of Europe, rather than using this as a cheap opportunity for Muslim/Palestinian bashing and lose focus away from the true danger i.e. the far right and neocons.
To fight extremism and injustice we must recognise that this is a collective battle for the whole of mankind standing side-by-side, which requires mutual recognition of each others pain and suffering, and then we can move forward together. If we favour one community over another, and do not recognise that numerous faiths and people are suffering and have suffered then we always be prone to repeat mankinds mistakes and be continuously engaged in partisan politics avoiding the greater good for all.
Recognise all genocides and suffering together in an all inclusive manner.
jackie goymour, says...
4:56pm Sun 28 Jan 07
1. Holocaust Memorial Day, whilst comemorating the Holocaust, does in fact include all genocidal atrocities since 1945. It is not exclusive to WWII. The mere fact that recent atrocities are included makes the actual commemmoration very important, as it is obvious we are not learning from history, and so have to be reminded of it, every year.
2. The action by the Council is shabby at best, and racist at worst, pandering to the lowest common denomintor.
Reason, says...
5:09pm Sun 28 Jan 07
raz, says...
5:13pm Sun 28 Jan 07
jake fisher, says...
5:24pm Sun 28 Jan 07
raz wrote:LGF is awesome!!!
If this story disgusts you. Then check out Littlegreenfootballs.com re the reaction of the BBC
Shame on Bolton. And shame on those racist bunch who scrap Holocaust Rememberance Day! And how dishonest it was to not even notify the Jewish community of Bolton. Remember that it memorializes 11 million handicapped ,jews, queers, socialists & gypsies...you must have a problem with all of them to remove that day from Bolton.
John McNabb, says...
5:30pm Sun 28 Jan 07
But my point being that if ANYONE attempts to mention a Jewish terrorist, then that person is either anti-Semitic or a Nazi or a liar or hes a Muslim. There seems to be one rule for one, and another rule for the rest.
To see Jewish terrorist acts I suggest you start at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence
(and then go through each links)
Youll find:
British described such political violence as "Jewish" or "Zionist terrorism".
Now you cant blame the British for being Nazis or liars or Muslims.
When Baruch Goldstein killed 29 and wounded another 150 in a shooting attack, on the Palestinians, many like yourself saw him has an Israeli defending his homeland, or that this story was made up, and the whole incident didnt happen.
As Michael Jackson said If you wanna make the world a better place, Take a look at yourself, and then make a change
simon, says...
6:05pm Sun 28 Jan 07
1. We recognise that the Holocaust shook the foundations of modern civilisation. Its unprecedented character and horror will always hold universal meaning.
2. We believe the Holocaust must have a permanent place in our nation's collective memory. We honour the survivors still with us, and reaffirm our shared goals of mutual understanding and justice.
3. We must make sure that future generations understand the causes of the Holocaust and reflect upon its consequences. We vow to remember the victims of Nazi persecution and of all genocide.
4. We value the sacrifices of those who have risked their lives to protect or rescue victims, as a touchstone of the human capacity for good in the face of evil.
5. We recognise that humanity is still scarred by the belief that race, religion, disability or sexuality make some people's lives worth less than others'. Genocide, antisemitism, racism, xenophobia and discrimination still continue. We have a shared responsibility to fight these evils.
6. We pledge to strengthen our efforts to promote education and research about the Holocaust and other genocide. We will do our utmost to make sure that the lessons of such events are fully learnt.
7. We will continue to encourage Holocaust remembrance by holding an annual Holocaust Memorial Day. We condemn the evils of prejudice, discrimination and racism. We value a free, tolerant, and democratic society.
Muhammad, says...
6:17pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I regularly pray at my local mosque. The London Central Mosque, which was founded during World War II, in recognition of the substantial Muslim population of the British Empire and its support for the Allies during the war. On October 24, 1940, the Churchill War Cabinet allocated £100,000 for acquisition of a site for a mosque in London. The site chosen was a 2.3-acre spot in a prime location next to Regent's Park. The Islamic Cultural Centre, which would later include the mosque, was officially opened in November 1944 by King George VI.
On holocaust day, Ill be at my local mosque, praying for peace in the Middle East, and that we never have another holocaust, genocide, terrorism or war, on any human being, whether he is a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim.
Daisy, says...
6:38pm Sun 28 Jan 07
The Holocaust was a European event .. brought about as a culmination of centuries of ideological and practical anti-Semitism. Only a throughly sanctimoniously secular Europe would choose to forget what it .. COLLECTIVELY .. wrought. This is another big step into oblivion for Europe.
Michael, says...
6:39pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It goes without saying that many groups and minorities have suffered grave injustices, but there is absolutely no comparison between Palestinian terrorism and the Holocaust, both in terms of magnitude and cause. They bring misery unto themselves and continue blaming the Jew for whatever horrors befall them. There is no targeted killing campaigns of civilians, only defense against wanton and craven acts of terrorism.
It's a shame that the Bolton council has decided to whitewash the event to avail the Muslim community of their responsibility during WWII (look up the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem for more info), but based on Britain's regression from civilized country to Islamic proxy state, I'm certain that many more such historical revisions to suit Islamic favour will occur under the nose of the ignorant and intolerant.
shawn, says...
6:40pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Michael, says...
6:41pm Sun 28 Jan 07
ding, says...
6:41pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Gabe, says...
6:42pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Sampson Bach, says...
6:45pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Marco, says...
6:51pm Sun 28 Jan 07
The point I was advancing, was not that Islamic Terrorism exists, but that it dwarfs all the terrorism put together from other religions. It makes all the other religious extremism inconsequential when compared to Islamic extremism.
With reference to your list, you have completely and utterly failed to add any credence to your argument. That list from wikipedia still only includes occurrences in the 1940s. Moreover, the total number of people killed in all attacks in that list, is still diminutive when contrasted to just one case of Islamic Terrorism (9/11).
You cant genuinely be serious by the way with that Michael Jackson comment. Surely, it would be more aptly applied to the Palestinians. Lets face it, they use women and children as human shields, send suicide bombers into Israeli cafes/restaurants/busses, fire rockets indiscriminately to murder innocent Israeli civilians, and the majority vote for a government that candidly states it wants Israel destroyed. There is also in-house fighting between Hama and Fateh. What needs to be reformed is the Palestinians disinclination and inability to live in peace.
As for the comparison by another poster, who likens the treatment of Muslims today to that of the Jews in Nazi Germany. This is frankly laughable. The analogy is nonsensical.
Has the government advocated that Muslim businesses and homes be attacked in mass riots (remember Krystalnacht)? Have Muslims been forced to have signs placed upon your businesses? Have they been forced to wear symbols on their clothes so that people know they follow Islam?
Also, I dont recall Jews blowing up the German transport network, or Jews committing terrorist atrocities all around the world. I dont recall Jews plotting to blow up German airliners flying across the Atlantic to murder 1000s of innocent people (August Islamic Terrorist airline plot). I dont recall Jews being arrested for plotting any terrorist activities in Germany (all the other plots, Barot the Muslim convert). I dont recall Jews going on mass protests calling for those who insult Judaism to be beheaded. (cartoon and pope protests, behead those who insult Islam etc.) I dont recall Jewish rabbis in Synagogues preaching hate and advocating the murder of Christians and Muslims, or fighting the non-believer or calling women deficient (remember the dispatches programme). I dont recall Jews making continuous demands on the host community such as Jewish only schools, prisons, bank holidays etc
So in actuality, it was an utter crass and moronic analogy.
kasper., says...
6:59pm Sun 28 Jan 07
This has brought shame to Bolton.
What a disgrace.
simon, says...
7:01pm Sun 28 Jan 07
* London (2001) Theme: Remembering Genocides: Lessons for the Future
* Manchester (2002) Theme: Britain and the Holocaust
* Edinburgh (2003) Theme: Children and the Holocaust
* Belfast (2004) Theme: From the Holocaust to Rwanda: lessons learned, lessons still to learn
* London (2005) Theme: Survivors, Liberation and Rebuilding Lives, for the sixtieth anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz
* Cardiff (2006) Theme: One Person CAN Make a Difference
In addition to the national event, there are numerous smaller memorial events around the country organised by local government, community groups and religious organisations.
suhail khan, says...
7:03pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Instant Karma, says...
7:03pm Sun 28 Jan 07
The British still have a bit of Chamberlain left in them-or they would not be bending their backs time and again at the slightest suggestion of hurting the sentiments of the adherents of the "Religion of Peace". I hope for the sake of the British people that they wake up before the next Grand Mosque is built on the ruins of Westminster Cathedral.
Paul Green, says...
7:06pm Sun 28 Jan 07
http://www.frontpagemag.com//Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=7519
Bostoms footnotes include several valuable sources, such as Vahakn Dadrians 2002 article in the International Journal of Middle East Studies titled The Armenian Question and the Wartime Fate of the Armenians as Documented by the Officials of the Ottoman Empires World War I Allies: Germany and Austria-Hungary, and Bat Yeors discussion of the episode in her book The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam.
Let the citizens of Bolton also spare a thought for newspaper editor Hrant ****, a Turkish citizen of Armenian heritage who was persecuted by his government for refusing to remain silent about the genocide and then slain in Istanbul on Jan. 19 by a killer who a witness said shouted I shot the infidel! as he fled the scene. (The latter was reported in initial Reuters dispatches and the UK Telegraph.)
shawn, says...
7:09pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Paul Green, says...
7:12pm Sun 28 Jan 07
John, says...
7:13pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Start bringing in the camels. Their riders have already arrived.
Taqiyyotomy 101, says...
7:15pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Newsie Rule #1: if it goes against your predefined dogma, remove it.
Taqiyyotomy 101, says...
7:23pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Instant Karma, says...
7:25pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Taqiyyotomy 101, says...
7:26pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Catttt, says...
7:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
In other words, shut up and quietly assent to what shawn thinks. Earth to shawn - not everyone agrees with you, and they aren't going to shut up, thanks.
suhail khan, says...
7:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Bennie, says...
7:29pm Sun 28 Jan 07
George Orwell, says...
7:30pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Bankman, says...
7:31pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Steve Andrew, says...
7:33pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Catttt, says...
7:34pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Oh, wait - Muslims were involved in WWII - they were allies of Germany.
http://www.masada2000.org/mufti-Nazi.jpg
Taqiyy., says...
7:37pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Oh, well. It's probably better that the world understands just how many moonbats and ultra-leftists there are in jolly England these days. That way when it's more than just Piglet that's banned, when your women must remain covered to avoid being raped, when "honor"-killings are routine (more routine than now, anyway), when all criticism of the Cult of Death and it's insane followers is proscribed and prosecuted... at least then the world will know how it happened.
Taqiyyotomist, says...
7:44pm Sun 28 Jan 07
The reason for the change in this memorial is that MUSLIMS ARE OFFENDED BY IT. And because they are, you leftist appeasers will do anything, give up anything, change anything to "Get on their good side." When all your women are covered in black sacks, don't blame anyone but yourselves.
Brad Brzezinski, says...
7:47pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It seems many prefer to forget this important lesson of history.
david, says...
7:49pm Sun 28 Jan 07
name, says...
8:01pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Instant Karma, says...
8:04pm Sun 28 Jan 07
sam maven, says...
8:04pm Sun 28 Jan 07
But No! Jew Hatred in Bolton blinds your eyes to The Holocaust. You turn your backs like so many Holocaust Deniers in the past. You turn a blind eye to the greatest human suffering by mechanised slaughter ever expereinced. Its so terrible, so vast in ots scale that you cannot comprehend it.
Muslims say they are the New Jews. I hope for their sake they are not.
You can show your true colours even more I gurantee you debase the word Genocide by recognising the Palestinians on your Genocide Day. I guarantee the biggest boycott of politicians you could ever imagine and a permanent stain on Bolton.
I look forward to Arsenal's visit in the cup replay. As much as I hate Arsenal I hope they score five! Many Arsenal supporters are Jewish, as is their board of directors. There is your apportunity for further Antisemitism.
The Raccoon, says...
8:07pm Sun 28 Jan 07
It is so nice to see our dear Muslim friends preparing the world for another Holocaust - the demonization, vilification and denial of the right to exist of the Jews. Lovely.
Same blood libels, same lies, same propaganda themes, same cartoons are coming out from the Muslim world now as they did from Nazi Germany then.
It is little wonder they should want to negate the Holocaust - it makes a re-run that much easier.
Thank you for lending them a hand, good yeomen of England.
Andy, says...
8:12pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Muhammad wrote:What an excellent comment, must agree with you 100%.
Thats right blame the Muslims for all of this. Well probably get blamed for starting the holocaust. ****, some people even believe Hitler is a Muslim! I regularly pray at my local mosque. The London Central Mosque, which was founded during World War II, in recognition of the substantial Muslim population of the British Empire and its support for the Allies during the war. On October 24, 1940, the Churchill War Cabinet allocated £100,000 for acquisition of a site for a mosque in London. The site chosen was a 2.3-acre spot in a prime location next to Regent\'s Park. The Islamic Cultural Centre, which would later include the mosque, was officially opened in November 1944 by King George VI. On holocaust day, Ill be at my local mosque, praying for peace in the Middle East, and that we never have another holocaust, genocide, terrorism or war, on any human being, whether he is a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim.
I'll also be at my church praying.
shawn, says...
8:17pm Sun 28 Jan 07
national bohemian, says...
8:19pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Hiroshima and Dresden, while unfortunate that so many civilians died, were military actions designed for maximum industrial, economic, and psychological impact. which they succeeded in.
ISRAEL's battle with the 'palestinians' is a self defense battle with terrorists determined to wipe out the only democratic nation in the middle east.
Udo Ulfkotte, Germany, says...
8:25pm Sun 28 Jan 07
least1, says...
8:31pm Sun 28 Jan 07
If you're honest with yourselves, you'll look at the decline in population figures of European Jewry from 1939 to 1945.
Contrast this with the increase (!) during the "Palestinean Holocaust"
The UK of today has a false sense of pride because she stood up against the Nazi regime, but forgets that up until the Nazis reach exceeded her grasp, Britain had exactly the same mind-set she has today.
Peter, says...
8:33pm Sun 28 Jan 07
name wrote:I doubt the Palestinians would agree that the persecution is non existent.
The sole motive for cancelling the Holocaust memorial service is to appease Muslim anti-Semites. You can see anti-Semitism rearing its ugly head on this very page with some extremely offensive and ill-informed comments ranting about Jewish Nazis and non-existent persecution of Arabs.
Peter, says...
8:42pm Sun 28 Jan 07
national bohemian wrote:Dresden was NOT an economic city, what happened there was mass murder and a crime against humanity as was Hiroshima. You claim that Israel is defending itself against terrorists, funny how Israel was founded by terrorists like Ben Gurion and other zionist murderers. I suppose you think it was the toothfairy that blew up the King David Hotel and committed the various massacres on arab villages. The facts are we (the British) stole the land from the Palestinians and gave it to the zionists.
HIROSHIMA was not genocide, nor was DRESDEN. the situation in ISRAEL (no such thing as 'palestine', never was), is not genocide.
Hiroshima and Dresden, while unfortunate that so many civilians died, were military actions designed for maximum industrial, economic, and psychological impact. which they succeeded in.
ISRAEL's battle with the 'palestinians' is a self defense battle with terrorists determined to wipe out the only democratic nation in the middle east.
Ariel, says...
9:01pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Peter wrote:Well I suppose all those suicide bombings that occurred in Israel were done by the tooth fairy, all those rockets fired in were done my angels, and that Hamas and Hezbollah actually don't want to annihilate Israel even though they have stated this.
national bohemian wrote: HIROSHIMA was not genocide, nor was DRESDEN. the situation in ISRAEL (no such thing as 'palestine', never was), is not genocide. Hiroshima and Dresden, while unfortunate that so many civilians died, were military actions designed for maximum industrial, economic, and psychological impact. which they succeeded in. ISRAEL's battle with the 'palestinians' is a self defense battle with terrorists determined to wipe out the only democratic nation in the middle east.Dresden was NOT an economic city, what happened there was mass murder and a crime against humanity as was Hiroshima. You claim that Israel is defending itself against terrorists, funny how Israel was founded by terrorists like Ben Gurion and other zionist murderers. I suppose you think it was the toothfairy that blew up the King David Hotel and committed the various massacres on arab villages. The facts are we (the British) stole the land from the Palestinians and gave it to the zionists.
Are you an apologist for Palestinian Terrorism?
John C. Randolph, says...
9:46pm Sun 28 Jan 07
george whyte, says...
9:51pm Sun 28 Jan 07
cathy o dowel, says...
9:57pm Sun 28 Jan 07
IRQ Conflict, says...
10:08pm Sun 28 Jan 07
boltonfamily.com
Ron, says...
10:12pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Joe, says...
10:16pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Thank G-d my dad left Manchester back in '49 for the States!
Thomas Calan, says...
10:20pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Jo, says...
10:22pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Joseph, says...
10:33pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Normal folks here in the US just can't understand Europe's, especially GB's refusal to save itself and especially in siding with their own rapists!
Uncle Sam, says...
10:53pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Your liberal immigration policies have come home to bite you in the bottom.
Good luck getting your country back from the ones you've handed it over too.
clive donald, says...
11:03pm Sun 28 Jan 07
bolton council hang your head in shame..
no where to hide..
Irv Goldstein, says...
11:10pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Alan C, says...
11:13pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Sim, says...
11:21pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I asked him If he and his organisation were boycotting the Holocaust memorial on the grounds that it was not inclusively broad enough, Hence his wish to rename it to "Genocide memorial day," would he welcome renaming the month of Ramdan to "Religious Celebration Month" in which ALL religions could celebrate their relevant festivities
in a show of interfaith inclusiveness?
He wouldn't answer me. Two World Wars! Millions Dead!
And what for? So 3% of the population can dictate what the rest of us should be doing. Utterly Disgusting. Utterly Disgusting.
Dimitri, says...
11:21pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Sim, says...
11:22pm Sun 28 Jan 07
I asked him If he and his organisation were boycotting the Holocaust memorial on the grounds that it was not inclusively broad enough, Hence his wish to rename it to "Genocide memorial day," would he welcome renaming the month of Ramdan to "Religious Celebration Month" in which ALL religions could celebrate their relevant festivities
in a show of interfaith inclusiveness?
He wouldn't answer me. Two World Wars! Millions Dead!
And what for? So 3% of the population can dictate what the rest of us should be doing. Utterly Disgusting. Utterly Disgusting.
Pat, says...
11:27pm Sun 28 Jan 07
Muhammad wrote:The only decent comment!
Thats right blame the Muslims for all of this. Well probably get blamed for starting the holocaust. ****, some people even believe Hitler is a Muslim! I regularly pray at my local mosque. The London Central Mosque, which was founded during World War II, in recognition of the substantial Muslim population of the British Empire and its support for the Allies during the war. On October 24, 1940, the Churchill War Cabinet allocated £100,000 for acquisition of a site for a mosque in London. The site chosen was a 2.3-acre spot in a prime location next to Regent's Park. The Islamic Cultural Centre, which would later include the mosque, was officially opened in November 1944 by King George VI. On holocaust day, Ill be at my local mosque, praying for peace in the Middle East, and that we never have another holocaust, genocide, terrorism or war, on any human being, whether he is a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim.
I too shall pray!
Jimbo, says...
12:21am Mon 29 Jan 07
IT WAS 34% YES
AND 66% NO THEN IT WAS REMOVED!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!
WHATS THE POINT OF HAVING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE IF YOU ARE GOING TO REMOVOE IT IF YOU DONT LIKE THE RESULTS?!?!?!?????????????!?!?!??!??!??!?
WHATS THE POINT??????
LGFootballer, says...
12:35am Mon 29 Jan 07
melinwy, says...
12:45am Mon 29 Jan 07
Nazi or Islamist ignoramus wrote:gee of course the fact the palestinians have been sending bombs into Israel and Israel is just defending herself doesnt seem to make a difference to you, so if someone breaks into your home and tries to kill you but you kill them first that would make you the burglarer?
People talk about the six million Jews and millions of Poles, homosexuals, gypsies, communists and other non-nationals killed under the Nazis but why should this genocide be more important than the 30,000 Palestinians who have been killed fighting Israel in the last sixty years?
brilliant thinking....muslims are doing a bang up job of making **** on earth come to pass......hezzbolah etc they are getting their wish....most of you here are playing right into their hands, only thing is, if you arent a muslim YOU are next.....and the more rights you want....you be closer to the head of the line for the beheadings.....
raz, says...
1:32am Mon 29 Jan 07
No Free Speech left in the UK. Boycott the Biased BBC.
Anyone see Dispatches UnderCover Mosque last week?
The Truth is out there
As long as it's not censored like this POLL
George C Scott to the rescue, says...
3:48am Mon 29 Jan 07
"The Auschwitzes of the world must remain standing because they serve as monumounts to a moment in time when certain men turned the earth into a graveyard. And into it they shovled their knowledge, their reason,their logic,but worst of all their conscience. And the moment we forget this,the moment we cease to remember, then we become the gravediggers. Something to remember not only in the Twilight Zone, but where ever sane men walk God's earth."
-Rod Serling
bob-usa, says...
3:50am Mon 29 Jan 07
C.S., says...
6:27am Mon 29 Jan 07
jake fisher, says...
6:34am Mon 29 Jan 07
raz wrote:Spot on.
Where's the POLL this is Dhimmi censorship. No Free Speech left in the UK. Boycott the Biased BBC. Anyone see Dispatches UnderCover Mosque last week? The Truth is out there As long as it's not censored like this POLL
Shame on Bolton. It's 1938 all over again.
F Colls, says...
6:34am Mon 29 Jan 07
The Shoah (or Holocaust) is unique in history precisely because it was reasoned and justified on racial grounds in a way that no other genocide ever has been.
And if only such hatred of Jews were a thing of the past.
A TV programme showing religious leaders in some of the UKs leading mosques describing Jews as apes, pigs and monkeys bodes ill for the future was broadcast earlier this month.
True, Muslim leaders have been quick to denounce such sentiments.
But Bolton needs Holocaust Memorial Day. We all do
eric muldownie, says...
7:04am Mon 29 Jan 07
Suzanne, says...
7:27am Mon 29 Jan 07
McHil, says...
9:03am Mon 29 Jan 07
oliver, says...
10:09am Mon 29 Jan 07
declan, says...
10:18am Mon 29 Jan 07
C.S. wrote:first point, there is a big difference between being jewish and being Israeli. But, more worryingly, how can you excuse what the Israeli state apparatus is doing to the Palestinian people? Should we tolerate Israeli excesses because of the Holocaust? Should those who have been the victims of child abuse be allowed to abuse children themselves? There are obvious parallels here, I am not merely trying to shock, we must have minimum standards of decency and humanity, as set out in the Human Rights Act, which the Israeli state does not adhere to in its treatment of the Palestine people
Saying there is "genocide"/"holocaust" against the palestinians by the Jews is an INSULT TO HISTORY TOO not just Jews & other REAL victims of ethnic cleansing. Yes, there have been other genocides/holocausts/ethnic cleansings against those besides the Jews, HOWEVER, not against the palestinians. In actuality, if it were up to the palestinians it would be THEM committing a FULL SCALE ethnic cleansing of the Jews. As they put it, "push the Jews into the sea". Israel/Jews are only defending themselves from the obliteration that most palestinians & other muslims want to visit upon them.
penny, says...
10:37am Mon 29 Jan 07
Simon, says...
11:09am Mon 29 Jan 07
Zion, says...
11:11am Mon 29 Jan 07
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/
declan, says...
11:15am Mon 29 Jan 07
Simon wrote:hang on a moment, if muslim extremists engage in dangerous, even terrorist activities, are the whole muslim community to be held responsible? This makes no sense at all, thus when British anti-vivisectionists engage in terrorist acts, are the whole of britsh society to be blamed? Ridiculous
Perhaps the Bolton Council, and Britain as a whole, will finally wake up and smell the stench of their own cowardly droppings after a few more Muslim mass murder plots are revealed in the UK that are accompanied by the usual refusal of the Muslim community in the UK to distance themselves from their co-religionist martyrs.
fed up, says...
11:37am Mon 29 Jan 07
Simon, says...
11:42am Mon 29 Jan 07
This poll reveals that 37% of all British Muslims think Jews are a legitimate target of violence.
http://icevikings.blogspot.com/2006/02/uk-poll-37-of-muslims-in-britain-think.html
Thats 37% of 1.6 million. Do you honestly think the British anti-vivisectionists can boast of having such large support amongst all animal lovers in Britain?
Simon, says...
11:44am Mon 29 Jan 07
declan, says...
12:38pm Mon 29 Jan 07
Bobo, says...
2:26pm Mon 29 Jan 07
The comparison is also pathetic. Islamic Terrorism is prevalent the world over and results in carnage and destruction world wide affecting hundreds of thousands of people. Not too mention all the terror plots and preachers of hate in supposedly main stream mosques. Then you also have all those crazy, violent protesters. So are you still wondering why people are becoming sceptical of Islam. How many more terrorist attacks and preachers of hate do there need to be before people actually start to question Islams role in terrorism. Isnt there already enough.
raz, says...
2:42pm Mon 29 Jan 07
in a poll do not reflect real behaviour. And you totally ignore all the evidence of Israeli racist attitudes and behaviour towards arabs generally, and palestinians particularly, the biggest difference being that Israel is ion a position of political, social, and military superiority, and is able to dismiss arab opposition as extremist and terrorist. Israel constantly harps on about its right to exist, well what about the rights of the palestinian people that Israel booted into the occupied lands, to return and live side by side. NOT ALL ISRAELIS ARE EXTEEMISTS, BUT NEITHER ARE ALL MUSLIMS
Go and listen to this lebanese Christian talk and learn the truth declan!
http://www.phyllis-chesler.com/db_video.html
declan, says...
3:11pm Mon 29 Jan 07
Bobo wrote:what do you mean by prevalent? You're argument is decidedly simplistic and skewed in favour of being anti-islam, which is cynical, pointless, and retrograde to genuine debate
What utter rubbish Declan, there have been numerous polls now that demonstrate a significant support or sympathy for the 7/7 bombers and Sharia law from Muslims, the latest poll results today only go to reinforce that. Whilst polls are inherently skewed, the fact that so many polls reflect the same thing must show there is at least some truth in it. And that is very worrying. The comparison is also pathetic. Islamic Terrorism is prevalent the world over and results in carnage and destruction world wide affecting hundreds of thousands of people. Not too mention all the terror plots and preachers of hate in supposedly main stream mosques. Then you also have all those crazy, violent protesters. So are you still wondering why people are becoming sceptical of Islam. How many more terrorist attacks and preachers of hate do there need to be before people actually start to question Islams role in terrorism. Isnt there already enough.
declan, says...
3:14pm Mon 29 Jan 07
Simon wrote:indeed I wouild refer to islamic extremists as ann obscure group of marginalised whackos, so my analogy fits
No, youre ridiculous. Try as you might, you cannot compare an obscure group of marginalized animal rights whackos to the global Jihiadi movement, and the extent to which that movement has rooted itself in British society. Their hatred, particularly of Jews, is as mainstream in the UK as it is in other parts of the Muslim world. This poll reveals that 37% of all British Muslims think Jews are a legitimate target of violence. http://icevikings.blogspot.com/2006/02/uk-poll-37-of-muslims-in-britain-think.html Thats 37% of 1.6 million. Do you honestly think the British anti-vivisectionists can boast of having such large support amongst all animal lovers in Britain?
Bobo, says...
3:36pm Mon 29 Jan 07
declan wrote:It's not my fault your vocabulary is astoundingly bad, look up the word in a dictionary.
Bobo wrote: What utter rubbish Declan, there have been numerous polls now that demonstrate a significant support or sympathy for the 7/7 bombers and Sharia law from Muslims, the latest poll results today only go to reinforce that. Whilst polls are inherently skewed, the fact that so many polls reflect the same thing must show there is at least some truth in it. And that is very worrying. The comparison is also pathetic. Islamic Terrorism is prevalent the world over and results in carnage and destruction world wide affecting hundreds of thousands of people. Not too mention all the terror plots and preachers of hate in supposedly main stream mosques. Then you also have all those crazy, violent protesters. So are you still wondering why people are becoming sceptical of Islam. How many more terrorist attacks and preachers of hate do there need to be before people actually start to question Islams role in terrorism. Isnt there already enough.what do you mean by prevalent? You\'re argument is decidedly simplistic and skewed in favour of being anti-islam, which is cynical, pointless, and retrograde to genuine debate
That is the best counter argument I have ever seen though. Seriously, you have addressed and refuted each and every single one of my points. Are you a professional debater y any chance?
As for your analogy, there is no conceivable way it fits. I just demonstrated that in my previous post. Obtuseness is not a good trait. When Islamic Terrorism is so prevalent (look it up), and there are all those crazy preachers of hate in mainstream mosques, coupled with the polls and violent protests, it is clearly not an obscure group of marginalised whackos.
Bobo, England says...
3:48pm Mon 29 Jan 07
declan wrote:When you say "people's viewpoints do not reflect real behaviour", were you trying to win the award for dumbest statement of the year. People's view points are the major contributory factor in determining their behaviour. For example, if I really liked swimming, I would be far more likely to go swimming wouldn't I????
you're statistics are pointless, peoples viewpoints in a poll do not reflect real behaviour. And you totally ignore all the evidence of Israeli racist attitudes and behaviour towards arabs generally, and palestinians particularly, the biggest difference being that Israel is ion a position of political, social, and military superiority, and is able to dismiss arab opposition as extremist and terrorist. Israel constantly harps on about its right to exist, well what about the rights of the palestinian people that Israel booted into the occupied lands, to return and live side by side. NOT ALL ISRAELIS ARE EXTEEMISTS, BUT NEITHER ARE ALL MUSLIMS
I wonder what the view points were of the 7/7 bombers or all the other potential bombers that have been arrested. They too would have sympathised with terrorists, yet you say view points don't reflect behaviour. To demolish your argument even further, passive support is only a small step away from active support, which in turn is only a small step away from committing terrorist acts. So the fact that so many Muslims support the bombers is incredibly worrying. I wonder how many of them would disclose information to the police, or actively support would-be bombers if they had the chance.
Ariel, says...
4:10pm Mon 29 Jan 07
declan wrote:Simple question, how many innocent people have been killed by British antivivisectionists and how many have been killed globally by Muslim Extremists?
Simon wrote: Perhaps the Bolton Council, and Britain as a whole, will finally wake up and smell the stench of their own cowardly droppings after a few more Muslim mass murder plots are revealed in the UK that are accompanied by the usual refusal of the Muslim community in the UK to distance themselves from their co-religionist martyrs.hang on a moment, if muslim extremists engage in dangerous, even terrorist activities, are the whole muslim community to be held responsible? This makes no sense at all, thus when British anti-vivisectionists engage in terrorist acts, are the whole of britsh society to be blamed? Ridiculous
The answer to that will tell you how good the comparison is. Let's be honest, we already know the answer anyway don't we.
Scott, says...
9:48pm Mon 29 Jan 07
Britshit, says...
1:40am Tue 30 Jan 07
Alexandria, says...
8:28am Tue 30 Jan 07
Also, as far as I'm concerned, when the "Palestinians" turned down the Israel proposal that would have given them over 90% (it's called OVERBOARD COMPRISE on the part of Israel) of what they were DEMANDING then I now say they can shag off. Talk about professional or perpetual "victim-hood" the "Palestinians" are the perfect example. The Israeli govt isn't to be excused for their actions b/c of the Holocaust BUT B/C OF THE CURRENT CLIMATE OF MURDEROUS/SUICIDE BOMBING RACISTS calling themselves "Palestinians". IMHO, their is no such thing as EXCESSIVENESS when defending one's RIGHT to EXIST & NOT TO BE WIPED OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH. BTW, IMHO, Olmert should NEVER have been put into office. He should be careful of "destiny" for the last two rulers of Israel that did or attempted to CAPITULATE to those that would WIPE THEM OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH IF THEY CAN, one is DEAD & the other is basically such. And I don't buy for one nanosecond that only "37% of all British Muslims think Jews are a 'legitimate target' of violence". If that is the case, then WHERE O' WHERE are the MULTIPLE MASS demonstrations against the Muslim terrorist activities that we see world-wide against the JEWS & other actions by non-Muslims. Yes, here & there individuals when asked or SMALL groups of Muslims will say "tsk, tsk our fellow Muslims, stop the murderous violence against the non-Muslims" all the while, I suspect, many of those saying such are doing a lot of winking & nodding. THERE have been a FEW Muslims that I believe are sincere in their rebukes/recriminations for Muslim murderous terrorist activities but in my experience it is no where near what the above mentioned poll indicates.
melinwy, Unfortunately, in the UK & elsewhere if someone does kill a home intruder the homeowner sometimes IS PUT ON TRIAL. It is utter non-sense to do so in those cases JUST AS IT IS non-sense to put Israel "on trial" for doing the same thing.
To paraphrase/re-phrase something that was said of he WWII Holocaust:
1st They came for the Jews.
Next they came for the Christians.
Next They came for the Buddhists.
Next They came for the Hindus.
Next They came for ............
Next When they came for ME there was nobody left to help me........
IOW, when some of you say to yourselves "Oh, they're not after ME...they're after THEM!" Well, guess what, AFTER they have gone AFTER others you will eventually be targeted...that is unless you're ARE them.
*Note: This site needs to learn how to spell Gypsies since it spelled the word as "gipsies". Sloppy, Sloppy
zeezeebee, says...
2:06pm Tue 30 Jan 07
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for the Catholics
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Catholic
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
Verohnika, says...
2:36am Wed 31 Jan 07
Emma, says...
2:40am Wed 31 Jan 07
You people are sick...Jewish people have the audacity to say "never forget" while they are extorting billions from Germans and Americans tio fund a genocide against the native inhabitants of Palestine?
Excuse me bigot? Excuse me pig? Excuse me you genocidal sociopath.
I think not.
Boycott Israel and the Jewish people.
Mimo, says...
11:48am Wed 31 Jan 07
Emma wrote:LOL
Let's celebrate the Jewish genocide against Palestinian Semites occurring right now before all of our very eyes. CELEBRATE! You people are sick...Jewish people have the audacity to say "never forget" while they are extorting billions from Germans and Americans tio fund a genocide against the native inhabitants of Palestine? Excuse me bigot? Excuse me pig? Excuse me you genocidal sociopath. I think not. Boycott Israel and the Jewish people.
This has got to be one of the worst cases of moronic ramblings I have ever seen. I think you'd find it is Muslim terrorists killing people all over the world.
As for your flawed comparison of the genocide of the Palestinians, this already has been refuted and demonstrated to be a pathetic comparison. At the rate Palestinians are proliferating, their population will double in size in no time.
I don't think you could have exhibited your anti-Semitism any more than you have done to be frank. You are clearly a Muslim and an anti-Semite.
Alexandria, says...
7:40pm Thu 1 Feb 07
Chan, London says...
9:35am Tue 6 Feb 07
Diode, Auschwitz says...
9:41am Tue 6 Feb 07
Verohnika wrote:I am with you 100% on that verohnika. People seem to believe every flippin' hype they read or hear. Did you know the Immigrants along with those **** JEWS wanted to get rid of Remembrance day & St..Georges flag. Oh yes they do but so far their attempts had failed. WHy get rid of Remembrance day when every year they celebrate the **** HOLOHOAX. It was our men OUR MEN that ought a war that had nothing to do with England. Hitler was no threat to England. But Churchill was in debt with the jewish bankers and they said you fight Hitler we will forget about the high debt you owe us. Of course Churchill fought Hitler, he was a fat alcoholic and was used by the jews to get what they wanted. RIP AH
I am tired of genocide \"celebrations.\" Let\'s remember the murder of Jesus Christ at the hands of Jewry shall we? Let\'s remember that AH took his life to avoid being beaten, tortured, and hanged by American filth shall we? Let\'s remember the Dresden Holocaust shall we? Let\'s remember that whites are being slaughtered and raped in South Africa every day shall we?
Poekeltje, The Netherlands says...
2:49pm Wed 7 Feb 07
Reg Denny, London says...
11:28pm Wed 7 Feb 07
Denny Kane, Coventry says...
11:39am Fri 9 Feb 07
8th feb 2007
BNP 2nd again HUGE turnout 36.08%
Full result
Labour 658
BNP 546
CON 301
LIB DIMS 119
ENG DEM 75
Save our NHS 43
UKIP 8 (this is not an error the vote was 8 which is 0.45%)
THE BNP is the only party that can go into a labour heartland and shake them to the core
TICKTOCKTICKTOCKTICKTOCK
Jimmy Boy, says...
6:09pm Sat 10 Feb 07
Chan wrote:You talk about the Jews the way most people would talk about Muslims. Muslims have caused nothing but trouble in virtually every country they have infected. Islamic Terrorism for starters. The Muslims are the most hated race in the UK.
What is it with everyone, yes I will deny the Holocaust. Why because in order to kill 6 million jews over 2 year period, Auschwitz had only 2 small crematoriums. So where are the \"alledged\" 6 million bodies. Remeber before the war started millions of jews left Germany and disappeared without trace to other countries leaving friends & family behind. The jews have been lying about the Holocaust for years. Not once have they proved to anybody that 6 million died. Ok people die in wars. The ones in concentration camps mainly died for hygenic , lack of food & medical reasons. Why is everyone so het up on the jews, for gods sake do we have to worship those liars for the rest of eternity. 90% of ANY war is started because of jews. Look at Israel & Palestine. Those places dont belong to the jews, yet they start a war and demand they want them. Jesus rejected the jews because he knew them to be evil. Come on who encourages the crucifxtion of jesus to the cross.... The jews did. Stop **** footing around the jews. They cause nothing but trouble and they never fight their own arguments, they go running to the west & kill us off instead. Do you see jews intermixing their so called people with other RACES. NO you dont. But they encourage it for others to intermix. Come on people the truth is coming out and will reveal the jews for whom they are.
As for you denying the holocaust, every reputable historian agrees with the figure, as well as film footage and eye witness accounts that prove around 6 million Jewish people died in the holocaust. How stupid can some people get?
It may be unpalatable to you, but compared to Muslims, the Jews are a superior race, a simple look at the number of successful Jewish businesses and vast number of Jewish millionaires demonstrate this. You need only look at the tiny number of Muslim noble prize winners, or the dire state of Muslim countries where they live in abject poverty.
acid_jim, SS8 says...
2:36am Tue 20 Jan 09
Millions died in other concentration camps.'
Dumb **** Chan. Read what the article says.
How the decision was revealed on the front page of The Bolton News
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e.brereton, says...
9:21pm Fri 26 Jan 07