Good on you Barry Moss, giving Bolton Council a well deserved kick up the 4rse!

So what kind of people do we have in the town hall?
The government produces an idiots guide to show these clowns how to paint lines on the road and how they should be spaced and not one person in the town hall is able to follow them? Is this because the instructions don't contain pictures? or because there are words greater than one syllable?

Whilst i dont want parking in Bolton to be a free for all and agree that some people deserve to be fined, there are situations where money has been collected for minor infringments beyond drivers control, for which i had cause to appeal against once, fortunatley for me i was able to fight and win my case, but others are not so lucky and some just pay the fine because they dont know what else they can do.

Good One Barry, lets hope they get this in order now, although, if they raise council tax to make up for the loss in parking ticket revenue i may have to fall out with you!!

Are you people crazy ?
Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ?
Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ?
Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ?
Absolute plonkers.

King Eric wrote:
Are you people crazy ? Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ? Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ? Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ? Absolute plonkers.

Hehe, hungover this morning love, christ almighty, lets hve the underdog win one for once, stop being such a sheep and bowing to everything the authorities tell you is right, not having an argument, you had your opinion on us, i am having my opinion on you.

End of discussion. :)

King Eric wrote:
Are you people crazy ? Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ? Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ? Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ? Absolute plonkers.

Maybe its with the clocks changing Erica, but I agree with you.

Surely common sense says they apologise, give a few grand to charity and start doing it properly as from now.

Otherwise, the ratepayers will be footing the bill, along with all the other millions which have been paid out this year for various reasons.

Additionally the people who got the fines must have thought they were in the wrong otherwise would have challenged it at the time?

Why should they be better off because of some ancient bit of legislation?

King Eric wrote:
Are you people crazy ? Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ? Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ? Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ? Absolute plonkers.

Maybe its with the clocks changing Erica, but I agree with you.

Surely common sense says they apologise, give a few grand to charity and start doing it properly as from now.

Otherwise, the ratepayers will be footing the bill, along with all the other millions which have been paid out this year for various reasons.

Additionally the people who got the fines must have thought they were in the wrong otherwise would have challenged it at the time?

Why should they be better off because of some ancient bit of legislation?

King Eric wrote:
Are you people crazy ? Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ? Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ? Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ? Absolute plonkers.

Maybe its with the clocks changing Erica, but I agree with you.

Surely common sense says they apologise, give a few grand to charity and start doing it properly as from now.

Otherwise, the ratepayers will be footing the bill, along with all the other millions which have been paid out this year for various reasons.

Additionally the people who got the fines must have thought they were in the wrong otherwise would have challenged it at the time?

Why should they be better off because of some ancient bit of legislation?

Does the clock going back really justify your reply in triplicate, or does the triplication give away the fact you work on the parking side of the council and have a vested interest ..

This crank was recently in the BN when his daughter-in-law was fined for parking her car diagonally across two parking bays. He obviously has the ear of the Numptyville News's resident tabloid guttersnipe and seems to have devoted long hours in what looks like a one-man vendetta - sorry, campaign - against the council and its parking regulations.
The council - and the police for that matter - have better things to do than to waste valuable resources pandering to the whims of this imbecile.
What are the odds nothing comes of it?

King Eric wrote:
Are you people crazy ? Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ? Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ? Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ? Absolute plonkers.

The council can always pick on sevices to the vunerable in the community and claw some money back, they have had good recent experience.

Crank ? Why for exposing the Council as alleged parking cheats ?

If they've had 6 million pounds illegally which equates to 200,000 tickets (assuming they've paid the lower £30.00)They want stringing up for the damaged they've caused Bolton in scaring away in droves potential customers / visitors ?

Good on Barry Moss for taking them on. I hope they'll be refunding with interest added.

erica.
The law is the law. accept it and get over it.

Parking cheats my backside, Tubby.
This crank got the council to change their signs because they did not say that people have to park "wholly" within a parking space, after his daughter-in-law was fined when she parked 5 1/2 inches into another parking space thus taking up two parking spaces. You often lecture us on here about "common sense", Tubby, "common sense" dictates that you don't park your car diagonally.
And if you think 5 1/2 inches isn't worth bothering about, then perhaps this modern-day Reginald Molehusband should park her car with 5 1/2 inches across the front of your driveway.
Mr Moss should stop wasting the time of the council. He is now involving the police and wasting their time as well. Don't they have enough to do in this crime-riddled town than to waste time on this idiot?

hi good one on you my mother is registered disabled and as desibled car we recently had to pay a parking fine in bolton for they said one wheel was just out of the on street bay of the car park at back of the police and courts the warden had class the colour of our car and it was the wrong colour that was on the ticket but they insisted that it did not matter what colour the warden put it down as it is the colour that they themselfs interprit he had put it down as green and it was infact blue

I never lecture anybody..you'd all then be as clever as me.

So what you saying Joe ? 200,000 tickets were all legal or just having a pop at Mr. Moss ? I think the latter Joe.

It's the Councils responsibility to ensure bays / signs ect are correct wouldn't you agree ? If Mr. Moss has found failings, he's being public spirited in informing people and should be rewarded. (I should have been a politician..with a crack like that !)

But seriously, if they're wrong, they're wrong and therefore illegal.

Got to go Joe, need to ring my mobile for the lady to tell me how much credit's left..makes me look good in the winebar with Eric....LOL !

Oi Tubby, you prat ! Didnt you mean :

So called Mr Rock And Roll
Is dancing on his own again
Talking on his phone again
To someone who tells him that his balance is low
He’s got no where to go
He’s on his own again


Best tune for donkeys years, have it on all the time in the gaff, punters are thinking of serving me an ASBO instead of the crap lager we have ...he..hee !

Dave wrote:
Does the clock going back really justify your reply in triplicate, or does the triplication give away the fact you work on the parking side of the council and have a vested interest ..

Sometimes the 'post comment' works in mysterious ways Dave.

I am not so needy as to post my comment three times lol.

I do like you thought about triplication and the parking ticket though - neat thought.

It's not rocket science. The thing that gives the Council the ability to fine you for incorrect parking is legislation. This same legislation specifies the criteria for the restrictions, including how the restrictions are indicated. All has to be correct, not just the bit's you happen to like. If Bolton Council are employing someone to put the "Indicators" in place they should at least ensure they are legal. If this person had been doing their job correctly there would have been no-one incorrectly fined and also no need for anyone to point out the inaccuracies. Bolton Council have no-one to blame but themselves.

So, council tax will go up as a result of repaying these illegally imposed penalties?

That would suggest that the council is using parking penalties as a way of raising revenue, wouldn't it?

JoePublic wrote:
This crank was recently in the BN when his daughter-in-law was fined for parking her car diagonally across two parking bays. He obviously has the ear of the Numptyville News's resident tabloid guttersnipe and seems to have devoted long hours in what looks like a one-man vendetta - sorry, campaign - against the council and its parking regulations. The council - and the police for that matter - have better things to do than to waste valuable resources pandering to the whims of this imbecile. What are the odds nothing comes of it?

valuable resources they got 6 million quid illegally they should be locked up for that.try witholding 6 pounds of your council tax and the bailiffs will be knocking before you know it.

Barry Moss's pedantic crusade benefits nobody, except perhaps Barry Moss.

Paying back parking fines, re-painting bays two inches wider, putting new signs up, paying for more bureaucracy to ensure every box is ticked in future. It all adds to our council tax bills.

If Barry Moss wants to make a difference he should crusade for common sense on both side of the parking debate. Then at least he could take the high ground when it comes to pointing out some of the Jobsworth behaviour, exhibited by those enforcing parking regulations.

its the p1llocks in the council offices who have brought this on no one else, if the bays were the right size from day one not a single ticket would be about to be riembursed no argument. im glad now this scum council will hve to rethink its money raising stealth taxes and go for the harder things like litter or the smokers or even the dogsh1tters.

again this so called council fall foul of the law £8 MILLION paid out to homecare workers now this ,can i ask the council how much is paid out again in consultation fee,s was that 7million pounds,how much is paid out on legal fee,s per year THIS COUNCIL IS A JOKE TIME FOR THE OLD GITS THAT RUN THIS TOWN TO RETIRE IN DISGRACE

jimbobob wrote:
again this so called council fall foul of the law £8 MILLION paid out to homecare workers now this ,can i ask the council how much is paid out again in consultation fee,s was that 7million pounds,how much is paid out on legal fee,s per year THIS COUNCIL IS A JOKE TIME FOR THE OLD GITS THAT RUN THIS TOWN TO RETIRE IN DISGRACE

I'd hold your breath before suggesting that the council have fallen foul of the law. That's just the view of this crank. Nothing will come of it other than a waste of resources by a man who couldn't handle the fact that his daughter-in-law was fined because she couldn't park her car properly.

Bill1 wrote:
So, council tax will go up as a result of repaying these illegally imposed penalties?

That would suggest that the council is using parking penalties as a way of raising revenue, wouldn't it?

Er, yes. Surely taxing idiots who can't read parking restriction signs; incompetent drivers who park over two parking bays or numptys who put their blue badges in the windscreen upside down is preferable to an increased council tax for everyone. If council tax does have to go up due to Moss' campaign perhaps we can all go round to his house and ask for a handout.

Ah! get the Jackboots out, Loki has spoken.
Parking signs, painted parking bays all illegal. But never mind we will still fine you, although doing so is illegal as we've cocked up on the requirements. What shear crass stupidity. The Council has an obligation to follow the law. If it doesn't the money collected is under false pretences. If there is a complaint it should be against the Council. It's not a case of paying this money back form the Council Tax, it should never have been collected in the first place. If the Council can't follow the legal requirements they have no right to illegally collect the fines. The people wrongly fined should not have to pay for the incompetance of the Council.

Ah! get the Jackboots out, Loki has spoken.
Parking signs, painted parking bays all illegal

The only people who say it's illegal are Mr Moss and his mis-guided acolytes on here.

Well done Barry Moss. The council leaders elected and officers should be fined or jailed for this £6m rip-off. Parking fines and parking charges are just another stealth tax. The central government contribution to the councils expenses is kept at such a level that the council needs to charge for parking to make up the difference. Sorry Eric rates don't have to go up to pay for this Labour needs to stop wasting money on illegal wars etc. The Nose-Picker has shown himself to be a profligate and wasteful chancellor and now an incompetent PM.
Parking charges or fines are unnecessary and damaging to the commercial life of this town.

are parking signs all over the country being re-made to include the word "wholly"? or is it just bolton? or do other towns have a more common sense approach?
this "the law is the law" bs is just that - BS! if the law was more about common sense than the absolute letter than it would be a lot fairer for everyone.

JoePublic wrote:

Ah! get the Jackboots out, Loki has spoken. Parking signs, painted parking bays all illegal

The only people who say it's illegal are Mr Moss and his mis-guided acolytes on here.

Being neither an attendant or follower of Barry Moss (look up the definition of acolyte Joe Public)It really is up to Bolton Council to ensure they comply with the legal requirements of the parking legislation if they wish to fine people. They are not above the law, neither are they law makers. It appears they could be law breakers. If people are parking illegally I have no problem with them being fined. If the fine is levied illegally I do have problems. If you think this is O.K. where do you allow the Council to draw the line. They cannot be allowed to ignore the law.

Druid wrote:
Ah! get the Jackboots out, Loki has spoken.
Parking signs, painted parking bays all illegal. But never mind we will still fine you, although doing so is illegal as we've cocked up on the requirements. What shear crass stupidity. The Council has an obligation to follow the law. If it doesn't the money collected is under false pretences. If there is a complaint it should be against the Council. It's not a case of paying this money back form the Council Tax, it should never have been collected in the first place. If the Council can't follow the legal requirements they have no right to illegally collect the fines. The people wrongly fined should not have to pay for the incompetance of the Council.

And perhaps now you will explain where the money will come from if the fines do have to be repaid.
Thought not...

The money, if collected eroniously will have to be paid back. If that has to come out of the Council Tax it will be because of the maladministration by Bolton Council. It would also mean that the Council Tax would have had a shortfall in the years that this money was collected and that the Council Tax for those years was incorrectly calculated. Again the fault of the Council.
If the Council received monies that it wasn't entitled to they should pay it back. If that means that people have to pay a slightly higher Council Tax that should be taken up with Bolton Council. It's not the drivers fault that they were illegally fined, it's Bolton Council. It would have meant that the Council Tax had been illegally subsidized and the true costs not passed on.
So think again dipstick.

Hilarious.

Whoever is in charge of Parking policy/enforcement law should be sacked on Monday.

If people did their jobs properly none of this would've happened.

This is Barry Moss, let me tell you that I do not make one penny from my parking campaign, it is totally funded by my meagre savings,much to the chagrin of my better half. recently I got a man off with his parking ticket because the Taxi bay he stopped in for only seconds was illegal, it is so illegal that taxis cannot park in it lawfully if the signage is anything to go by, in the Taxi bay there is a Dubyell line which means NWAT (no waiting anytime)if the upright sign gave indication of when taxis were allowed to use the bay, the bay would be lawful provided the worn lines and bay marking were of the correct sizes. the bay is ambigious therefore it is illegal in Statute. I have said this before and I will say it again, I am concerned at the 22,000 penalty charges that went to bailiffs and one lady with 2 young kids recently had to pay £384 to Drakes Bailiffs who use intimidation, harrassment and threats to obtain money on the Councils behalf. The bay was the mayors bay. which was hurriedly changed recently to try to make it lawful because I informed the council that I would park there from 0700 every day until it was made lawful, I gave the council a week to change the bay, the council changed it within 3 days, I have now brought the police in because the council were totally ignoring my letters and emails to them, they are now conspiring against me so that when I phone parking services I am immediately directed to a Mr Paul Winnard who I am told is my only contact with the council, why are the council giving me special treatment, you should phone them and ask them why can't you have the same treatment. The council have now hijacked my blog, I have a poll on there and they are using the Poll to their own ends by influencing the outcome, I cannot influence it myself and I put the poll on the blog, if they continue to abuse it I will remove the poll, the council trivilise their own actions, by saying the bay marking does not accord (Their Words not mine)with the Traffic Law but it is obviously a bay, so they take £30, £60, £90, or any amount after that off you via the Bailiff if you are a bit late getting back or are bit over the line, or have put your clock out a bit they expect the motorist to abide by the traffic laws yet ignore the same laws to continue stealing and robbing from you, recently in Deane the council spent hundreds of thousands resurfacing and relining Deane Road, only problem is the Bus Stop bays are all illegal because there are Dubyell lines in them the Dubyell line known as a 1018.1 line means No Waiting Antime so technically a bus can be given a parking ticket for stopping in a bus stop lane,the yellow line in a bus stop shoud be 200mm to 300 mm wide without a gap. which highly paid member of the council signed off this work so the contractors can be paid, who signed the work off to state that the lines comply with statute, who signed the work off to state it was satisfactory. sorry Joe Public you are obviously of limited intellect and are totally ignorant of the true facts, otherwise the crap you write would be less like infant speak, or is your wendy house broken and why do you hide behind such a silly childish non de plume, I asked Bolton Council if they wanted informal or formal talks to help them with their parking enforcement I was available, but they ignored me, so i stepped up my campaign by investigating the bays in Bolton, I ask for FOIA requests and they take them to the wire taking 28 days. most emails are not replied to. In 2000 Bolton Council Signed an agreement with the department for Transport to state they would make all the Lines and signs in the Borough comply with the 1991 Road Traffic Act(as amended) and the Traffic laws, they have reneged on this because 7 years later they are still the same, I have now reported the Council to the Department for Transport and will soon lobby my MP Ruth Kelly to look into this 7 year glitch. after all she is the Transport Minister...
If you think todays front page was serious wait for two weeks and the brown stuff will really hit the fan much harder and faster than todays news, this will ensure that Bolton Council will have to voluntarily pay back all the money taken prior to August 23rd last year, the Council contested an appeal on Friday of which they had no chance of winning they Brought in barristers from manchester, they wasted thousands of pounds of your Council Tax funds on a no win situation, their defence was indefensible, they were trying to win the unwinnable, they did it because they were ignorant of the facts and totally incompetent, they wanted the Council to hold onto their illegally derived income for which they were unjustly enriched by, Legal Services and Parking Services are not fit for purpose and if Mrs Sheila Jackson and Michelle Harris are reading this then I ask you to resign immeditely before the council after to answer for more misgivings brought about by two council employees who are the main Protagonist in Bolton Council's illegal Decriminalised Parking Enforcement Regime. When bolton council issue restitution it will represent only a fraction of what they receive in Council tax each year, which is over £500M, and it will take years to find everyone and with all due diligence they must do everything to find these innocent motorist who were unlawfully convicted by way of a Parking fine, these individuals can apply statutory interest of 8% and if the Bailiffs took your money or your goods and chattels you can ask for Punitive Damages and compensation read about Bolton Councils illegal Parking regime on my Blog www.boltonparkingapp
eals.blogspot.com.
Joe Public why do you hide behind such a childish non de plume, if you want to put your money where your mouth is use your real name. My name is Barry Moss and if you want to chat maybe I can get you on my side with the true facts or do you just like having a go at anyone. my PN is 01942 818687 crank calls will be reported.
BTW if anyone received a parking fine for parking in any on street bay after Setember 2007 in Bolton you can get your money back and ask for damages, because that is when the Council were made aware that the bays were illegal.
B. Moss

xipetotec46 wrote:
This is Barry Moss, let me tell you that I do not make one penny from my parking campaign, it is totally funded by my meagre savings,much to the chagrin of my better half. recently I got a man off with his parking ticket because the Taxi bay he stopped in for only seconds was illegal, it is so illegal that taxis cannot park in it lawfully if the signage is anything to go by, in the Taxi bay there is a Dubyell line which means NWAT (no waiting anytime)if the upright sign gave indication of when taxis were allowed to use the bay, the bay would be lawful provided the worn lines and bay marking were of the correct sizes. the bay is ambigious therefore it is illegal in Statute. I have said this before and I will say it again, I am concerned at the 22,000 penalty charges that went to bailiffs and one lady with 2 young kids recently had to pay £384 to Drakes Bailiffs who use intimidation, harrassment and threats to obtain money on the Councils behalf. The bay was the mayors bay. which was hurriedly changed recently to try to make it lawful because I informed the council that I would park there from 0700 every day until it was made lawful, I gave the council a week to change the bay, the council changed it within 3 days, I have now brought the police in because the council were totally ignoring my letters and emails to them, they are now conspiring against me so that when I phone parking services I am immediately directed to a Mr Paul Winnard who I am told is my only contact with the council, why are the council giving me special treatment, you should phone them and ask them why can't you have the same treatment. The council have now hijacked my blog, I have a poll on there and they are using the Poll to their own ends by influencing the outcome, I cannot influence it myself and I put the poll on the blog, if they continue to abuse it I will remove the poll, the council trivilise their own actions, by saying the bay marking does not accord (Their Words not mine)with the Traffic Law but it is obviously a bay, so they take £30, £60, £90, or any amount after that off you via the Bailiff if you are a bit late getting back or are bit over the line, or have put your clock out a bit they expect the motorist to abide by the traffic laws yet ignore the same laws to continue stealing and robbing from you, recently in Deane the council spent hundreds of thousands resurfacing and relining Deane Road, only problem is the Bus Stop bays are all illegal because there are Dubyell lines in them the Dubyell line known as a 1018.1 line means No Waiting Antime so technically a bus can be given a parking ticket for stopping in a bus stop lane,the yellow line in a bus stop shoud be 200mm to 300 mm wide without a gap. which highly paid member of the council signed off this work so the contractors can be paid, who signed the work off to state that the lines comply with statute, who signed the work off to state it was satisfactory. sorry Joe Public you are obviously of limited intellect and are totally ignorant of the true facts, otherwise the crap you write would be less like infant speak, or is your wendy house broken and why do you hide behind such a silly childish non de plume, I asked Bolton Council if they wanted informal or formal talks to help them with their parking enforcement I was available, but they ignored me, so i stepped up my campaign by investigating the bays in Bolton, I ask for FOIA requests and they take them to the wire taking 28 days. most emails are not replied to. In 2000 Bolton Council Signed an agreement with the department for Transport to state they would make all the Lines and signs in the Borough comply with the 1991 Road Traffic Act(as amended) and the Traffic laws, they have reneged on this because 7 years later they are still the same, I have now reported the Council to the Department for Transport and will soon lobby my MP Ruth Kelly to look into this 7 year glitch. after all she is the Transport Minister... If you think todays front page was serious wait for two weeks and the brown stuff will really hit the fan much harder and faster than todays news, this will ensure that Bolton Council will have to voluntarily pay back all the money taken prior to August 23rd last year, the Council contested an appeal on Friday of which they had no chance of winning they Brought in barristers from manchester, they wasted thousands of pounds of your Council Tax funds on a no win situation, their defence was indefensible, they were trying to win the unwinnable, they did it because they were ignorant of the facts and totally incompetent, they wanted the Council to hold onto their illegally derived income for which they were unjustly enriched by, Legal Services and Parking Services are not fit for purpose and if Mrs Sheila Jackson and Michelle Harris are reading this then I ask you to resign immeditely before the council after to answer for more misgivings brought about by two council employees who are the main Protagonist in Bolton Council's illegal Decriminalised Parking Enforcement Regime. When bolton council issue restitution it will represent only a fraction of what they receive in Council tax each year, which is over £500M, and it will take years to find everyone and with all due diligence they must do everything to find these innocent motorist who were unlawfully convicted by way of a Parking fine, these individuals can apply statutory interest of 8% and if the Bailiffs took your money or your goods and chattels you can ask for Punitive Damages and compensation read about Bolton Councils illegal Parking regime on my Blog www.boltonparkingapp eals.blogspot.com. Joe Public why do you hide behind such a childish non de plume, if you want to put your money where your mouth is use your real name. My name is Barry Moss and if you want to chat maybe I can get you on my side with the true facts or do you just like having a go at anyone. my PN is 01942 818687 crank calls will be reported. BTW if anyone received a parking fine for parking in any on street bay after Setember 2007 in Bolton you can get your money back and ask for damages, because that is when the Council were made aware that the bays were illegal. B. Moss

Bolton's Parking Department have been advised that their singage does not conform on many occasions over the last three years. They cancel tickets at an early stage if an informal appeal appears to be from someone knowledgeable but they pursue unlawfully issued tickets against the ignorant to the end causeing serious hardship to those that can least afford it. It is funny though that certain parts of the town don't receive the same level of enforcement as others. Well done Barry.

well done bolton council glad to see you are keeping up the CLOG TOWN image. I always said there are more empty heads on bolton council than anywhere else in England

Well done again Barry.

It's odd to see the one whining about you, is the one most vocal in threads regarding politics and apathy.

In my humble opinion, if we had more people like you, prepared to take on the establishment, just maybe, the country would not be in such an awful mess.

If it transpires, the council are using parking fines as a revenue raising exercise, will we see demonstrations on the streets as per the poll tax days ? If so, can we get Clarkson to lead ?

Vote for Barry !

As a signing consultant working in the private sector, my work primarily involves me being an independent expert witness to assist the Courts.
I am continually called upon to prepare reports into the legal requirements for, and the legitimacy of signing regimes. These reports are primarily created for Court prosecutions and/or parking civil proceedings/parking appeals.
I continue to be astounded by the actions, or should I say inaction of local authorities to comply with simple and basic Statute Law, the Regulations and the directions of the Secretary of State for Transport.
The legislation is often referred to by council officers as too complicated. There are basically only four diagrams/pictures of parking bays to follow and two diagrams for yellow lines. These are simple and if too complicated, technical drawings are free to download from the DfT website.
Provided the quote by the press is correct, once again we have a highway authority with a legal duty to only employ prescribed traffic signs stating they are writing to the Government for clarification on what they continually quote as being: guidance.
There is no guidance that requires clarification and, once again the public are being spun.
Any guidance documents issued by the Department for Transport always defaults to the legislation, in this case, the contents of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002.
As such the legislation is binding and the use of any 'sign' not within the publication, without the written site specific authority the Secretary of State for Transport is illegal and the authority is simply acting beyond its powers (for those that doubt read Chapter 1, the Traffic Signs Manual, Part 3, the Legal Responsibilities for Signs at point 1.18).
Therefore the use of anything that does not meet the precise requirements of signing law is 'non-prescribed' . Additionally, de minimis (minor deviation from law) is often quoted, however, the Regulations deal with de-minimus in the permitted variations and Regulation 12. There is nothing beyond that, as Lord Parker found in the High Court ruling in the case of Davies v Heatley 1971
Having worked with Philip Somorakis and also formerly as a Police Officer, I can confirm that the criminal offence of misfeasance in public office should be dealt with by the Police and, additionally should anyone care to look at the CPS website you can see the additional criminal offence of misconduct in public office.
Do not be fooled into believing that the council officers do not understand the legislation, all signing 'law' is written for engineers to both understand and apply. National conferences and seminars are held to assist, I was the opening speaker at the IHIE Conference this September, talking about this very subject.
The public should also consider that their councils have legal departments and hold copies of all the legislation, plus, as their comments in the paper show, they have access to free access to additional guidance by the Department for Transport, Westminster, London.
If anyone is actually interested in understanding the legislation, what signing should look like and also the
consequences of signing inaction they need look no further than the advice pages of my website: rmbconsulting.co.uk

How many times have we seen on these blogs 'It's the law, accept it, get over it, etc, etc. The law applies to everybody and if the council have broken the law they should pay. We have had MPs voting for new laws and breaking them and they should be made to pay two or three times over.
I am a great believer of fighting for things when I know that they are wrong and I support anybody who fights against wrong doings.
This country needs many more 'cranks' like Barry Moss.

Some time ago, I took Bury Council all the way regarding a ticket issued. The Council case collapsed when presented with evidence based on information from DfT and others.Which resulted in signs being changed and also wording on the tickets.

It caused untold arguments in Scruffy Towers but it was the principle of the damm thing. I have some sympathy for Mr. Moss in so much as I know just how much effort he must have put in to his campaign based on my own experience.

Thanks also to rmbconsulting for his post.

LOKI: And perhaps now you will explain where the money will come from if the fines do have to be repaid.
Thought not...


---------

Parking is meant to be self funding, ring fenced, therefore the parking dept through "legal fines" will have to find the cash to pay this back. The council are not allowed to bail them out (they maybe able to loan it, but it must be paid back)

If the council increase the council tax then this shows that the fines were for revenue generation. That in itself is illegal, they are not allowed to do that and if they have used it for revenue, this further shows the misfeasance in public office

Parking does need controlling, but it is important. Although it is decriminalised it is still a prosecution for infringement of the law. This means the council must also follow the law, not do what they want and abuse that power

Just a thought. Could Railtract be guilty under this law for fining people who smoke on open platforms?

chas wrote:
Just a thought. Could Railtract be guilty under this law for fining people who smoke on open platforms?

No, you would have to look up the railway byelaws and see if they have been amended to allow them to do that

What about hospitals who ban smoking on their open air car parks?

jamesbolam wrote:
LOKI: And perhaps now you will explain where the money will come from if the fines do have to be repaid.
Thought not...


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Parking is meant to be self funding, ring fenced, therefore the parking dept through "legal fines" will have to find the cash to pay this back. The council are not allowed to bail them out (they maybe able to loan it, but it must be paid back)

If the council increase the council tax then this shows that the fines were for revenue generation. That in itself is illegal, they are not allowed to do that and if they have used it for revenue, this further shows the misfeasance in public office

Parking does need controlling, but it is important. Although it is decriminalised it is still a prosecution for infringement of the law. This means the council must also follow the law, not do what they want and abuse that power

Thanks for a rational comment. I'm not sure about Bolton now but other councils no longer ring fence these charges and treat as revenue. If they are treated as revenue then the council tax will have to go up. If it does go up call Barry Moss on the number he publishes above (what a mug) and as such is in the public domain. Presumably him and his imbecilic supporters will dip into their pockets and bail us all out. Or a better idea may be to ensure the parking signage is accurate then triple parking charges - again Moss and his ilk can help us out perhaps...

loki
So if you were fined wrongly, you wouldn't claim it back.

jamesbolam
I've just looked up the bylaws and it states 'on or near a notice'. My local station has very few notices and none on the open platform. I wonder if anybody has been fined at my station.

If they're treating it as revenue ,they are doing so illegally. You cannot extort money from people as an income and then whinge when you have to pay it back. If this money was obtained illegally it should be treated tha same as any other ill gotten gains and the people responsible prosecuted. It's stealing by another name. Maybe Loki is happy to have his Council Tax subsidised by theft but I'm not. If you are unhappy with the outcome Loki, complain to the people responsible, Bolton Council.
Maybe you have an excuse for holding on to this money that was obtained illegally, if so let us know what it is.

chas wrote:
loki
So if you were fined wrongly, you wouldn't claim it back.

Too right I would claim it back! The point I'm trying to make (badly, obviously) is that if I do something wrong I expect to pay for it. We have all seen the movies where some scumbag gets away with a crime due to a slick lawyer. Now imagine if this news item was entitled 'child abusers get released because police forgot to sign a form'
Just how many of those who have posted above would be commenting on this story applauding the aforementioned slick lawyer? OK an exaggeration to make the point but think how many times you have tried to park correctly and pay for your ticket then think that those people who are so cr4p at driving that they end up with a fine and now may have got away with it (including the campaigners relative who is such a f***ing liability on the road that she managed to take up two parking spaces). There's the law then there's justice and if people who are morons get away with this then the law may be correct but it certainly isn't justice.

Loki: That is the problem now. Most councils are now 'relying' on it for revenue. Which on it's own introduces protection of income rather than fair application of the law.

Even if they are treating it as revenue, the rules and regs around it say that any moneys from it are for specific things and High Court judges have said that to use it as revenue is not on, for the same reason above.

I can understand your frustration in this. Believe it or not this is a bit bigger than just parking tickets. At the moment councils are getting powers to fine us based on their evidence, Bins, Recycling, Littering. Before you had recourse to defend yourself if it was wrong in, a fair and impartial court. Now it is just 'We say so, so pay up'.

Dave wrote:

King Eric wrote: Are you people crazy ? Do you want an added amount on the Council Tax to pay back Parking fines ? Do you want the Police to be spending time with this or dealing with real crime ? Do you want to line this guy's pockets as he contests parking fines on minor technicalities ? Absolute plonkers.

Hehe, hungover this morning love, christ almighty, lets hve the underdog win one for once, stop being such a sheep and bowing to everything the authorities tell you is right, not having an argument, you had your opinion on us, i am having my opinion on you. End of discussion. :)

This is an absolute discrase what you have said, at the end of the day the counsil has commited fraud, if you did this your self would you be saying the same thing, as i dont think so you would be banged up in prison where you belong.

good one on Barry i 100% support him all the way, as i would like to see the underground go under, as this counsil aint a counsil, its managed on money and false prommises, all talk no goods