These two C/diff and mrsa seem to have increased since the flood gates where opened to let in many from eastern europe,

eastern block countries

King Eric wrote:

what makes you so pedantic all the time

An article about disease, you try and hijack it with bollix about East Europeans, and I pull you.
Call me Mr Pedant.

considering your eagerness to turn every debate into a race issue.

King Eric wrote:

These two C/diff and mrsa seem to have increased since the flood gates where opened to let in many from eastern europe,

A quite ludicrous remark made without any evidence, and totally unrelated to the article.
Can Mr Gibbon give us the figures for those people from Romania who have brought this bug into UK hospitals ?

saida wrote:
If more patients and relatives made complaints regarding the care and level of hygiene at the royal bolton then more would be done. The management would be forced to listen. It is not an easy process but we must seek justice for our loved ones. the health care commission have been very helpful and i hope they can make the royal bolton hospital answer for their deeds. Also i have to say, care for the elderly is shocking at the hospital, my heart goes out to those elderly patients who have no one, to speak up for them or make sure they are being well cared for. Some of the nurses we met just didnt care and couldnt be bothered. If you are old and go into hospital, chances are your not coming back.

Whos fault? Labour!

BoltonDave wrote:
It's a fact that these bugs are being brought in by immigrants. The government knows it but won't admit it.
I know because I'm married to a high ranking nurse who tells me all sorts of horror stories which are covered up by the NHS/Government.
Just pray you don't get admitted.

Gloria wrote:

BoltonDave wrote:
It's a fact that these bugs are being brought in by immigrants. The government knows it but won't admit it.
I know because I'm married to a high ranking nurse who tells me all sorts of horror stories which are covered up by the NHS/Government.
Just pray you don't get admitted.

What a load of codswallop.......you should be ashamed

Gloria wrote:

BoltonDave wrote:
It's a fact that these bugs are being brought in by immigrants. The government knows it but won't admit it.
I know because I'm married to a high ranking nurse who tells me all sorts of horror stories which are covered up by the NHS/Government.
Just pray you don't get admitted.

What a load of codswallop.......you should be ashamed

Gloria wrote:
No I canr see th epoint for saying it....as I said before...to suggest that ALL immigrants are the great unwashed and WE are all perfect is clearly ridiculous....we have plenty of our own "dregs" to deal with...colour or creed has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Rocky wrote:
Oh and would it not then be considered RACIST?

If if so WHY?

Isn't it racist to suggest someone is overweight and use that as a reasob for not treating them when it is this government who have promoted a fast food frenzy, work all hours god send attitude so home healthy cooked meals become unpractical?

Gloria wrote:
You are completely exagerating your argument to prove a point. The story is about MRSA, a contributor suggested that the rise in this kind of bug was due to immigrants....nothin
g at all to do with HIV, TB and obesity....

Do try and stay on topic.

Gloria wrote:
NO RICKY

He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants"

He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

Gloria wrote:
No I canr see th epoint for saying it....as I said before...to suggest that ALL immigrants are the great unwashed and WE are all perfect is clearly ridiculous....we have plenty of our own "dregs" to deal with...colour or creed has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Gloria wrote:
Do you think that reducing your argument to assuming that I am in some way "thick" will win it for you???

If you treated people with an ounce of civility then you might end up with an interesting and diverse discussion on a topic

Take your time...its a simple concept

cow-head wrote:
How long before this thread gets closed? BoltonDave has just mentioned the "I" word, so no doubt Andrew, Erica, Declan and the rest of the loonie left PC brigade will start whingeing.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

It does matter. This is about a specific issue. You think everything is about immigration. It's not fella.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

It does matter. This is about a specific issue. You think everything is about immigration. It's not fella.

Gloria wrote:
Do you think that reducing your argument to assuming that I am in some way "thick" will win it for you???

If you treated people with an ounce of civility then you might end up with an interesting and diverse discussion on a topic

Take your time...its a simple concept

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
Do you think that reducing your argument to assuming that I am in some way "thick" will win it for you???

If you treated people with an ounce of civility then you might end up with an interesting and diverse discussion on a topic

Take your time...its a simple concept

You havent answered the question.


Do you or do you NOT accept the point?

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

It does matter. This is about a specific issue. You think everything is about immigration. It's not fella.

No we were discussing the anomolies of the spread of disease and increase in infectious diseases. We were also discussing the lack of cleanliness and the increase in people coming into this country with specific diseases like TB as a cause for the increased rates. What is it you were prattling on about?

Andrew wrote:

cow-head wrote:
How long before this thread gets closed? BoltonDave has just mentioned the "I" word, so no doubt Andrew, Erica, Declan and the rest of the loonie left PC brigade will start whingeing.

If people stayed on topic and stopped trying to make absolutely every sodding thread about immigration we would not have this problem. That there are a handful of one-trick wonders disrupting things is nobody's fault but theirs. We are talking what, half a dozen posters who come and peddle the same old line every minute of every day. It's boring and it's instructive only in revealing the tired and discredited agendas of those posters. Hopefully the BN will take action so the board can focus on topics in hand which will, on occasion, include immigration.

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

It does matter. This is about a specific issue. You think everything is about immigration. It's not fella.

No we were discussing the anomolies of the spread of disease and increase in infectious diseases. We were also discussing the lack of cleanliness and the increase in people coming into this country with specific diseases like TB as a cause for the increased rates. What is it you were prattling on about?

No, the topic is the specific issue of MRSA and Cdiff. The clue is in the story. As usual the mob want to turn it into an immigration issue, start chucking insults about, get the thread closed and blame the vague concept that is the "PC Brigade". It's a tired and tiresome formula.

Still, if you want proper moderation here, do keep it up chaps. The more you hack people off the more chance of posts being vetted prior to publication.

Rocky wrote:
OH AND GLORIA


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Answer the question

DO YOU or DO YOU NOT agree that immigration of people into this country has contributed to higher infection rates of infectious disease?

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

cow-head wrote: How long before this thread gets closed? BoltonDave has just mentioned the "I" word, so no doubt Andrew, Erica, Declan and the rest of the loonie left PC brigade will start whingeing.

If people stayed on topic and stopped trying to make absolutely every sodding thread about immigration we would not have this problem. That there are a handful of one-trick wonders disrupting things is nobody's fault but theirs. We are talking what, half a dozen posters who come and peddle the same old line every minute of every day. It's boring and it's instructive only in revealing the tired and discredited agendas of those posters. Hopefully the BN will take action so the board can focus on topics in hand which will, on occasion, include immigration.

So are we to be given the parameters of our debate now? You saying we can only debate MSRA ? Does MSRA not spread like any other infectious disease like TB through touch cough, contact or lack of cleanliness? How did we come to get such diseases, or why are rates on the increase is that not we are supposed to debate? If not them why have comments at all? or is that exactly what you would want ? If people like you Andrew cannot control the debate you start complaining because you finally realise you're utopian ideology is broken?

Infection rates are part of the story and Gabon raised the issue of increased infection rates due to high numbers of infected immigrants.

A TOTALLY REASONABLE DISCUSSION TOPIC.

HE SAID IMMIGRANTS never brought race into it.

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

It does matter. This is about a specific issue. You think everything is about immigration. It's not fella.

No we were discussing the anomolies of the spread of disease and increase in infectious diseases. We were also discussing the lack of cleanliness and the increase in people coming into this country with specific diseases like TB as a cause for the increased rates. What is it you were prattling on about?

No, the topic is the specific issue of MRSA and Cdiff. The clue is in the story. As usual the mob want to turn it into an immigration issue, start chucking insults about, get the thread closed and blame the vague concept that is the "PC Brigade". It's a tired and tiresome formula. Still, if you want proper moderation here, do keep it up chaps. The more you hack people off the more chance of posts being vetted prior to publication.

NO the TITLE is WAR ON MRSA. "We are delighted the Department of Health is putting yet more impetus on reducing infection rates." Infection rates are part of the story and Gabon raised the issue of increased infection rates due to high numbers of infected immigrants. A TOTALLY REASONABLE DISCUSSION TOPIC. HE SAID IMMIGRANTS never brought race into it. It is you, Andrew, Zimmple and ERICOLE that are attempting to hijack the topic.

gabon wrote:
Why wait till april start now,
These two C/diff and mrsa seem to have increased since the flood gates where opened to let in many from eastern europe,
Romania as a very poor heath record and all these people should be checked on entering the country,if they are found to have these then
Like animals they should be quarantined untill they are clear,
Do not take this the wrong way i am not saying these people are animals,
Its just a point that should be looked at,

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Gloria wrote: NO RICKY He said "these bugs are being brought in by immigrants" He was talking about MRSA !!!!!

It doesn't matter what was said originally. Immigration is a draw on the NHS budget, and has to be included in any discussion concerning the NHS.

It does matter. This is about a specific issue. You think everything is about immigration. It's not fella.

No we were discussing the anomolies of the spread of disease and increase in infectious diseases. We were also discussing the lack of cleanliness and the increase in people coming into this country with specific diseases like TB as a cause for the increased rates. What is it you were prattling on about?

No, the topic is the specific issue of MRSA and Cdiff. The clue is in the story. As usual the mob want to turn it into an immigration issue, start chucking insults about, get the thread closed and blame the vague concept that is the "PC Brigade". It's a tired and tiresome formula. Still, if you want proper moderation here, do keep it up chaps. The more you hack people off the more chance of posts being vetted prior to publication.

NO the TITLE is WAR ON MRSA. "We are delighted the Department of Health is putting yet more impetus on reducing infection rates." Infection rates are part of the story and Gabon raised the issue of increased infection rates due to high numbers of infected immigrants. A TOTALLY REASONABLE DISCUSSION TOPIC. HE SAID IMMIGRANTS never brought race into it. It is you, Andrew, Zimmple and ERICOLE that are attempting to hijack the topic.

The reducing infection rates quote refers to the topic in hand (MRSA/Cdiff) unlike your posts.

We all know the agenda. We're not stoopid.

Romania as a very poor heath record and all these people should be checked on entering the country,

I cannot for life of me see the word ROMANIANS in that thread.

I cannot for life of me see the word ANELKA in that thread

anomolies

Sun Tzu wrote:
So that's settled then. Immigration does have a negative effect on the ability of the NHS to function at it's best and therfore is the indirect cause of some MSRA infection. No attempt has been made to put forward a serious argument to the contrary. Therfore, our only option is to accept this statement to be true.

Andrew wrote
What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal?

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: So that's settled then. Immigration does have a negative effect on the ability of the NHS to function at it's best and therfore is the indirect cause of some MSRA infection. No attempt has been made to put forward a serious argument to the contrary. Therfore, our only option is to accept this statement to be true.

Fabulously extended logic. Jolly good show once again. What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal? Just a wee reminder, the topic is MRSA/Cdiff - actions to be taken to reduce infection, immigration NOT a factor.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: So that's settled then. Immigration does have a negative effect on the ability of the NHS to function at it's best and therfore is the indirect cause of some MSRA infection. No attempt has been made to put forward a serious argument to the contrary. Therfore, our only option is to accept this statement to be true.

Fabulously extended logic. Jolly good show once again. What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal? Just a wee reminder, the topic is MRSA/Cdiff - actions to be taken to reduce infection, immigration NOT a factor.

Lollipop wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: So that's settled then. Immigration does have a negative effect on the ability of the NHS to function at it's best and therfore is the indirect cause of some MSRA infection. No attempt has been made to put forward a serious argument to the contrary. Therfore, our only option is to accept this statement to be true.

Fabulously extended logic. Jolly good show once again. What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal? Just a wee reminder, the topic is MRSA/Cdiff - actions to be taken to reduce infection, immigration NOT a factor.

Hang on a minute! How can you say immigration is not a factor?
Do you have evidence to back this up?

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal?

They're all good, but we will have to wait and see.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal?

They're all good, but we will have to wait and see.

Well your perverted logic could certainly come up with such rubbish given the way you've twisted countless other threads - with a little help from your friends.

Still unable to condemn some of the disgusting posts made here today aren't you?

Lollipop wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: So that's settled then. Immigration does have a negative effect on the ability of the NHS to function at it's best and therfore is the indirect cause of some MSRA infection. No attempt has been made to put forward a serious argument to the contrary. Therfore, our only option is to accept this statement to be true.

Fabulously extended logic. Jolly good show once again. What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal? Just a wee reminder, the topic is MRSA/Cdiff - actions to be taken to reduce infection, immigration NOT a factor.

Hang on a minute! How can you say immigration is not a factor? Do you have evidence to back this up?

Rocky wrote:
Of course his logic prevented him from doing so, his only retort could only be that of a half witted amature comic.

Andrew wrote:

Lollipop wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: So that's settled then. Immigration does have a negative effect on the ability of the NHS to function at it's best and therfore is the indirect cause of some MSRA infection. No attempt has been made to put forward a serious argument to the contrary. Therfore, our only option is to accept this statement to be true.

Fabulously extended logic. Jolly good show once again. What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal? Just a wee reminder, the topic is MRSA/Cdiff - actions to be taken to reduce infection, immigration NOT a factor.

Hang on a minute! How can you say immigration is not a factor? Do you have evidence to back this up?

Look it up on NHS Direct with reference to development of anti-biotic resistant bacteria etc Of course you could start from the position of where's the evidence that immigration causes MRSA. That would surely be the more sensible position unless you just want to take the word of a few far right activists.

Rocky wrote:
Ok fair enough.... He mistakenly put MSRA in the same category but the point he was making was a fair one. Do you accept the point I am making?

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote What you got for tomorrow? Immigrants Force Allardyce Out? Brown People Push M&S Share Price Down? Diana - Blame Johnny Foreigner Shocked Inquest Hears? Asylum Seekers Behind JJB Shirt Price Scandal?

They're all good, but we will have to wait and see.

Well your perverted logic could certainly come up with such rubbish given the way you've twisted countless other threads - with a little help from your friends. Still unable to condemn some of the disgusting posts made here today aren't you?

I don't know what you're talking about Andrew. I don't read all the threads and I'm not here all the time. So sometimes you've had them removed before I get chance to read them.

The Health Service could be "overwhelmed" by cancer sufferers from Eastern Europe, a leading doctor has warned.

There are almost twice as many smokers in Poland and neighbouring countries than the UK, which means they have far higher rates of lung and other cancers.

It comes as a new documents showd the bill for treating health 'tourists' amounts to at least £62 million a year.

It says NHS trusts are ignoring guidelines aimed at preventing foreign patients abusing the NHS, a document said.

An internal Department of Health study said NHS trusts were failing to check the eligibility of patients and were chasing only around half of the debts owed.

Taxpayers were footing a bill of more than £30 million, with some of the total £62 million bill being paid back by patients.

Dr David Collingridge, editor of the respected journal Lancet Oncology, warned that so many East European migrants have arrived in Britain in recent years that the NHS may struggle to cope with the subsequent rise in cancer patients.

Official figures show that 579,000 people have come to Britain from Eastern Europe since the expansion of the European Union in 2004, though the true figure is thought to be far higher.

Dr Collingridge said: "Clearly, any large increase in population over a short period of time will put considerable pressure on, and possibly overwhelm, NHS infrastructure.

"The new migrant communities have different cultural and lifestyle habits that influence their cancer risk. They will also have different inheritable characteristics.

"This will undoubtedly change the cancer burden and the proportions of various cancers commonly seen in the UK."

Recent data suggests up to half of all Polish men smoke. Lung cancer kills more men in Eastern Europe than any other form of the disease. In the UK, on the other hand, more men die of prostate cancer.

The NHS's Cancer Plan is based on needs identified in 2000.

Dr Collingridge said it may have to be drastically rewritten to take into account the different needs of Eastern European patients. He added: "The increasing number of people needing access to healthcare in the UK puts greater emphasis on a need for easily accessible local services, particularly for emergency medicine, maternity units, general practitioners and the like.

"Otherwise, regional hospitals could easily become overwhelmed or inaccessible to many people.

"The increasing pressures on NHS services continue to emphasise a need for increased efficiencies; in particular, there needs to be a demonstrable decrease in bureaucracy and increased electronic streamlining of systems that benefit both doctors and patients."

In March, the British Pregnancy Advisory service said that increased demand for pregnancy care and abortions as a result of immigration was a "huge challenge" for the NHS.

In some areas as many as one in four women seeking an abortion comes from Eastern Europe. More than 5,000 babies are born to Polish parents in England every year.

A spokesman for the Department of Health insisted that the NHS would be able to cope with demands of immigration. He said: "Cancer mainly affects older people - around 74 per cent of people diagnosed with cancer are over 60.

"Given the average age of Eastern European immigrants - around 80 per cent are under 84 - it will be decades before any different risk behaviours, such as smoking, mean higher workloads for NHS cancer services.

"Smoking may be higher among recent migrants from Eastern Europe but if they decide to remain in the UK long enough, they will have been exposed to behaviour-changing initiatives, such as action the Government has taken on smoking in public places.

"As part of the cancer reform strategy, we are considering the issue of future cancer service capacity across England, including looking at how population changes will affect future need."

Soaring rates of infection by hepatitis B, fuelled by large-scale immigration, pose a serious health threat that is not being addressed properly, a report has said.

The Hepatitis B Foundation estimates that the numbers infected by the disease in Britain have almost doubled in the past five years, to 326,000. More than half of these people are immigrants from Africa, Asia, Russia and the new EU nations.

Hepatitis B has few symptoms. If untreated it can lead to serious liver disease including liver cancer, and death, decades after infection. World-wide, 500,000 to 700,000 people die every year as a result of infection by the virus.

Britain, unlike 85 per cent of countries, does not have the universal vaccination against hepatitis B that is recommended by the World Health Organisation. Instead, the policy is to vaccinate selectively, attempting to prevent the spread of the disease from mothers to children, for example.

Brak wrote:
I agree with the cleaning standards being terrible. They should hire in contract cleaning teams as this has been done at a couple of hospitals round the country and proved very effective indeed; as they are trained specifically to deal with these things. Why internal cleaning staff can’t be trained properly is a mystery but also bringing in specialist contract cleaners can surely be budgeted for instead of squandering it elsewhere.

Upsy Daisy wrote:

Brak wrote: I agree with the cleaning standards being terrible. They should hire in contract cleaning teams as this has been done at a couple of hospitals round the country and proved very effective indeed; as they are trained specifically to deal with these things. Why internal cleaning staff can’t be trained properly is a mystery but also bringing in specialist contract cleaners can surely be budgeted for instead of squandering it elsewhere.

The cleaning and portering IS contracted out, they aren't considered internal staff - they are ISS mediclean staff and to be fair they should be dragged over the coals over the infection rates along with the management and the level of service they provide should be brought into question.

mss1964 wrote:

Upsy Daisy wrote:

Brak wrote: I agree with the cleaning standards being terrible. They should hire in contract cleaning teams as this has been done at a couple of hospitals round the country and proved very effective indeed; as they are trained specifically to deal with these things. Why internal cleaning staff can’t be trained properly is a mystery but also bringing in specialist contract cleaners can surely be budgeted for instead of squandering it elsewhere.

The cleaning and portering IS contracted out, they aren't considered internal staff - they are ISS mediclean staff and to be fair they should be dragged over the coals over the infection rates along with the management and the level of service they provide should be brought into question.

Are the cleaners actualy screened before going into hospitals etc !!!

Lollipop wrote:
http:// www.avert.org/hivmig rants.htm Some easy reading for you Andrew.

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote: Ok fair enough.... He mistakenly put MSRA in the same category but the point he was making was a fair one. Do you accept the point I am making?

How do you square this with what you are now saying?

Lollipop wrote:
Another example of immigration and health issues

Soaring rates of infection by hepatitis B, fuelled by large-scale immigration, pose a serious health threat that is not being addressed properly, a report has said. The Hepatitis B Foundation estimates that the numbers infected by the disease in Britain have almost doubled in the past five years, to 326,000. More than half of these people are immigrants from Africa, Asia, Russia and the new EU nations. Hepatitis B has few symptoms. If untreated it can lead to serious liver disease including liver cancer, and death, decades after infection. World-wide, 500,000 to 700,000 people die every year as a result of infection by the virus. Britain, unlike 85 per cent of countries, does not have the universal vaccination against hepatitis B that is recommended by the World Health Organisation. Instead, the policy is to vaccinate selectively, attempting to prevent the spread of the disease from mothers to children, for example.

Rocky wrote:
Andrew Wrote "Of course you could start from the position of where's the evidence that immigration causes MRSA. That would surely be the more sensible position unless you just want to take the word of a few far right activists." You really are stupid. We were talking about infectious diseases in similarity to MSRA that are carried here and as a result cause the increased infections rates reported in the NHS SO YOU UNDERSTAND?

tosh wrote:
Although I believe that bad hygene practice and cleanliness of hospitals in general are to blame for the extraordinary rise in hospital acquired infections ( Probably the policies of this deplorable govenment with its layer upon layer of pen pushing tossers. Not enough medically trained staff to run the hospitals) Otherwise why is the problem nationwide? I also believe that the over use of anti- biotics over the years has lowered the nations immune systems and could be a contributable factor.

Rocky wrote:
YES YOU CAN infectious diseases are exactly that.. INFECTIOUS DISEASES and the MAJORITY of them are caught, passed on in the same way. Contact,albeit direct or third party touch, airbourne and seminal fluids. SO YOU CAN CLASS THEM ALL IN A SIMILAR VEIN.

Rocky wrote:
OK THEN ANDREW in the same respect.....Why is someone from Bury commenting on a Story to do with BOLTON?

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:
Andrew Wrote "Of course you could start from the position of where's the evidence that immigration causes MRSA. That would surely be the more sensible position unless you just want to take the word of a few far right activists." You really are stupid. We were talking about infectious diseases in similarity to MSRA that are carried here and as a result cause the increased infections rates reported in the NHS SO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Do you understand that you cannot place all infectious diseases in the same basket. The story is about MRSA/CdIFF - difficult to keep on topic I know because you can't blame immigrants.

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:
OK THEN ANDREW in the same respect.....Why is someone from Bury commenting on a Story to do with BOLTON?

Bury is within the BN catchment area. It is sold in my newsagent. It is part of the same group as the Bury Times which shares editorial resources.

By the way, how would swapping carpets for tiles halt TB transmission?

Rocky wrote:
Andrew you talk a good talk but when applying your own logic to the area in the context of the story instead of the disease then ITS NOW WRONG. Cmon Andrew you cannot have it both ways either you are correct and the Diseases are not as similarly infectious or someone from Bury (You) are wrong for commenting (like you say we are) because you are not in the same basket. Cant have it both ways Andrew sorry. Oh I forgot its selective logic you have isn't it?

King Eric wrote:
I watched a film made in the US last night, can't comment I'm not from America. No logic.

Andrew wrote:

King Eric wrote:
I watched a film made in the US last night, can't comment I'm not from America. No logic.

I'm still waiting for these people to explain, logically, how TB transmission can be curbed by changing carpet for tiles and chairs replaced, given all infectious diseases can be placed in the same basket.

King Eric wrote:
I watched a film made in the US last night, can't comment I'm not from America.
No logic.

Rocky wrote:
I have no agenda.. A pertinent point was raised RE immigration and the effects of IMMIGRATION on the spread of infectious diseases and why the NHS are struggling to cope. ITS ALL PERTINENT to the story of the spread of infectious diseases. There I've said it.....Immigration in capitals. Have you fell of your chair, bitten your tongue off or choked on your coffee? I accept there are other factors such as overuse of antibiotics im not stupid enough to deny it but we are talking about infectious diseases and the spread of TB which has direct consequences on the movement and traffic of other diseases such as CDIFF and MSRA. IF people who need hospital treatment for TB will perhaps then become infected with MSRA and CDIFF and therefore if the hospital have trouble controlling CDIFF AND MSRA how in hell are they supposed to cope with TB endemics as well? The points are quite pertinent and it is your ignorance that deflates the argument.

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

King Eric wrote: I watched a film made in the US last night, can't comment I'm not from America. No logic.

I'm still waiting for these people to explain, logically, how TB transmission can be curbed by changing carpet for tiles and chairs replaced, given all infectious diseases can be placed in the same basket.

Infectious diseases are spread in the same way as each other....if you catch MSRA through touch you can catch TB through touch Now concentrate.

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Andrew wrote:

King Eric wrote: I watched a film made in the US last night, can't comment I'm not from America. No logic.

I'm still waiting for these people to explain, logically, how TB transmission can be curbed by changing carpet for tiles and chairs replaced, given all infectious diseases can be placed in the same basket.

Infectious diseases are spread in the same way as each other....if you catch MSRA through touch you can catch TB through touch Now concentrate.

TB is spread threough coughing, sneezing etc. If you're going to spout, do some research.

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
Do you think that reducing your argument to assuming that I am in some way "thick" will win it for you???

If you treated people with an ounce of civility then you might end up with an interesting and diverse discussion on a topic

Take your time...its a simple concept

You havent answered the question.


Do you or do you NOT accept the point?

I have taken the opportunity to do my own research on the rise of TB rather than blindly accept your posting.

According to my research, yes, there is a rise in TB, however, "only 22% of cases where the sufferer was not from the UK had arrived within the last two years" - The Guardian

therefore, they did not bring it here, they caught it here.

Gloria wrote:

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
Do you think that reducing your argument to assuming that I am in some way "thick" will win it for you???

If you treated people with an ounce of civility then you might end up with an interesting and diverse discussion on a topic

Take your time...its a simple concept

You havent answered the question.


Do you or do you NOT accept the point?

I have taken the opportunity to do my own research on the rise of TB rather than blindly accept your posting.

According to my research, yes, there is a rise in TB, however, "only 22% of cases where the sufferer was not from the UK had arrived within the last two years" - The Guardian

therefore, they did not bring it here, they caught it here.

For the record ROCKY.....I did answer the question (quoted here) and the idea that the fact that someone has gone offline and is therefore no longer posting means you have somehow won a one (or two) man crusade is extremely sad.

Some of us have a life outside of sitting posting on the BN

Gloria wrote:

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
Do you think that reducing your argument to assuming that I am in some way "thick" will win it for you???

If you treated people with an ounce of civility then you might end up with an interesting and diverse discussion on a topic

Take your time...its a simple concept

You havent answered the question.


Do you or do you NOT accept the point?

I have taken the opportunity to do my own research on the rise of TB rather than blindly accept your posting.

According to my research, yes, there is a rise in TB, however, "only 22% of cases where the sufferer was not from the UK had arrived within the last two years" - The Guardian

therefore, they did not bring it here, they caught it here.

For the record ROCKY.....I did answer the question (quoted here) and the idea that the fact that someone has gone offline and is therefore no longer posting means you have somehow won a one (or two) man crusade is extremely sad.

Some of us have a life outside of sitting posting on the BN

Rocky wrote:
Curly wurlying again Andrew ? some people are more intelligent than you give them credit for than to be blinded by your ever slithering twist and turn.

Rocky wrote:


GLORIA Seen as you are quoting articles from the Guardian here is one I also found for you to "research"


"The highest rates in the UK are in parts of London with high levels of immigration, such as Brent, Newham, Ealing and Hackney. The TB burden in those boroughs is not dissimilar to Russia, China, and Brazil - countries that have some of the highest rates in the world."

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:
Curly wurlying again Andrew ? some people are more intelligent than you give them credit for than to be blinded by your ever slithering twist and turn.

No. You just keep exposing your lack of understanding of the subject. Possibly deliberately, possibly not.

As Gloria points out, just because someone does not post immediately in response to your vaccuous ramblings does not mean you have scored some kind of victory. Far from it given the weakness of and prejudice beghind your argument. It means they are not online 24/7. But you still haven't squared the contradiction highlighted several times before despite being online last night and this morning.

Now, I have to do some work so I won't be responding immediately to whatever you post a few moments from now., OK.

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:


GLORIA Seen as you are quoting articles from the Guardian here is one I also found for you to "research"


"The highest rates in the UK are in parts of London with high levels of immigration, such as Brent, Newham, Ealing and Hackney. The TB burden in those boroughs is not dissimilar to Russia, China, and Brazil - countries that have some of the highest rates in the world."

What an ignoramous.....

That proves a correlation, not a causality......

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:


GLORIA Seen as you are quoting articles from the Guardian here is one I also found for you to "research"


"The highest rates in the UK are in parts of London with high levels of immigration, such as Brent, Newham, Ealing and Hackney. The TB burden in those boroughs is not dissimilar to Russia, China, and Brazil - countries that have some of the highest rates in the world."

What an ignoramous.....

That proves a correlation, not a causality......

So please explain..

The Guardian says

"TB rates in the UK had been virtually eradicated"

The Guardian then says

"he highest rates in the UK are in parts of London with high levels of immigration,"

Are you now saying immigration ISN'T the cause of the increased infection rates?

Gloria wrote:
The difference being, I dont PRETEND to be an expert and try to inflate my responses by pretending I am the worlds leading authority on a subject. If the reserahers within the articles dont offer an explanation, then I wont pretend to, but I do know where they say its NOT coming from.

Your argument is purely self serving

Sun Tzu wrote:
I don't understand what argument Andrew and Gloria are putting forward.

Are you both saying, that high rates of immigration into this country, from countries where there are existing high rates of infectious disease, will not raise the incidence of infection here?

Because if this is the case. Then it's absurd, and you both need to take a good dose of reality and common sense.

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
The difference being, I dont PRETEND to be an expert and try to inflate my responses by pretending I am the worlds leading authority on a subject. If the reserahers within the articles dont offer an explanation, then I wont pretend to, but I do know where they say its NOT coming from.

Your argument is purely self serving

Interesting that as I'm only quoting from the same sources you are yet its wrong for me and right for you?

Gloria wrote:
If you are happy to have a sensible debate about a subject, it is interesting, once you and your cronies lower the level of the discussion to point scoring and belittling it is not worth my effort anymore.

The fact that you and I read different things from the same article DOES not make you (nor I) correct.

I am not claiming it does, you are the one that claims victory....I am not out for victory, merely a debate or a discussion with intelligent individuals.

Clearly I am not in the right place for that !!

gabon wrote:
I agree with you there eric/gloria one and the same,
Go join all your PC brigade mates and discuss between your selves,

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
If you are happy to have a sensible debate about a subject, it is interesting, once you and your cronies lower the level of the discussion to point scoring and belittling it is not worth my effort anymore.

The fact that you and I read different things from the same article DOES not make you (nor I) correct.

I am not claiming it does, you are the one that claims victory....I am not out for victory, merely a debate or a discussion with intelligent individuals.

Clearly I am not in the right place for that !!

No you dont read things at all.Proven when the same article that showed 22% of cases reported TB in the NHS were immigrants (As the immigrant population of the UK is, as we keep being told, is only 2/3%, this means that there must be a high % of immigrants with TB.

Its not reading things differently it comes down to simple maths Gloria.

IF 22% of all NHS admitted patients with TB were immigrants and 3% of our population is Immigrant then it stands to reason mathmatically that there is a much vastly higher % of Immigrants with TB coming into the country than the indigenous population.

Simple maths my dear not supposition or the way something is read simple maths.

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Gloria wrote:
If you are happy to have a sensible debate about a subject, it is interesting, once you and your cronies lower the level of the discussion to point scoring and belittling it is not worth my effort anymore.

The fact that you and I read different things from the same article DOES not make you (nor I) correct.

I am not claiming it does, you are the one that claims victory....I am not out for victory, merely a debate or a discussion with intelligent individuals.

Clearly I am not in the right place for that !!

No you dont read things at all.Proven when the same article that showed 22% of cases reported TB in the NHS were immigrants (As the immigrant population of the UK is, as we keep being told, is only 2/3%, this means that there must be a high % of immigrants with TB.

Its not reading things differently it comes down to simple maths Gloria.

IF 22% of all NHS admitted patients with TB were immigrants and 3% of our population is Immigrant then it stands to reason mathmatically that there is a much vastly higher % of Immigrants with TB coming into the country than the indigenous population.

Simple maths my dear not supposition or the way something is read simple maths.

Ok Rocky, if it makes you feel better you are correct, you are the superior being, I am a lowly serf who cannot understand what she reads, without having the likes of you point out the error of my ways.

I apologise for trying to have a friendly, intelligent debate

I will not let it happen again

NOW GO PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK

King Eric wrote:
Gloria don't waste your energy on this tiny band of right wing fools and bullies.
You have comprehensively dismantled this guy's argument.
Therefore he resorts to abuse. He's then joined by the thicker ones who cannot construct any argument and are like kids at the back of the school bully join in with the name calling.

Again, I have to say you have defeated this guy totally with statistics,informati
on and logic.
Congratulations.

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote: Ok fair enough.... He mistakenly put MSRA in the same category but the point he was making was a fair one. Do you accept the point I am making?

How do you square this with what you are now saying?

Rocky is strangely silent (I wasn't online last night, you were). Please square.

Gloria wrote:
Sun, have you heard of the difference between causation and correlation????

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote: Ok fair enough.... He mistakenly put MSRA in the same category but the point he was making was a fair one. Do you accept the point I am making?

How do you square this with what you are now saying?

Rocky is strangely silent (I wasn't online last night, you were). Please square.

This contradiction, queried last night - trawl back to suss the context which was the suggestion that immigration caused MRSA. I have no real idea what curly wurlying is but I'm guessing your own infantile terminology may apply to you. What was your user name before Rocky?

Posted by: Rocky, Bowton on 12:17pm today
Eric are you the one with statue of Maggie in your bedroom. Ive heard a rumour about you been seen in your flat in Deane in prayer every night before you go to bed.

Sun Tzu wrote:
I don't understand what argument Andrew and Gloria are putting forward. Are you both saying, that high rates of immigration into this country, from countries where there are existing high rates of infectious disease, will not raise the incidence of infection here? Because if this is the case. Then it's absurd, and you both need to take a good dose of reality and common sense.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
I don't understand what argument Andrew and Gloria are putting forward. Are you both saying, that high rates of immigration into this country, from countries where there are existing high rates of infectious disease, will not raise the incidence of infection here? Because if this is the case. Then it's absurd, and you both need to take a good dose of reality and common sense.

Are people bringing MRSA into the country? MRSA and Cdiff were the focus of the story before your mob got hold of it.

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote: Ok fair enough.... He mistakenly put MSRA in the same category but the point he was making was a fair one. Do you accept the point I am making?

How do you square this with what you are now saying?

Rocky is strangely silent (I wasn't online last night, you were). Please square.

This contradiction, queried last night - trawl back to suss the context which was the suggestion that immigration caused MRSA. I have no real idea what curly wurlying is but I'm guessing your own infantile terminology may apply to you. What was your user name before Rocky?

Tap, tap, tap....

Afraid I'll blow you away again Andrew

King Eric wrote:

Posted by: Rocky, Bowton on 12:17pm today
Eric are you the one with statue of Maggie in your bedroom. Ive heard a rumour about you been seen in your flat in Deane in prayer every night before you go to bed.

Tubby Scruff

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote: Ok fair enough.... He mistakenly put MSRA in the same category but the point he was making was a fair one. Do you accept the point I am making?

How do you square this with what you are now saying?

Rocky is strangely silent (I wasn't online last night, you were). Please square.

This contradiction, queried last night - trawl back to suss the context which was the suggestion that immigration caused MRSA. I have no real idea what curly wurlying is but I'm guessing your own infantile terminology may apply to you. What was your user name before Rocky?

Tap, tap, tap....

gabon wrote:
In your dreams eric/gloria one and the same,
How can anyone defeat the truth your views but not the truth,
Same old story abuse racist bully you use them all when you cant win

gabon wrote:
Typical reply from the PC again all the posts on here are or have been about CDiff and MRSA, There you go again the mob got hold of it, What the posts said that the increase in infectious diseases have increased since the immigration influx was allowed no one said they brought it in, Its only your way of trying to turn it into some form of racist remark every time you are on the backfoot, Most likley tubby as been terminated just like donmarg, What can you expect with people like you and the perv eric runing to the editor every time you dont get your way, Unlike eric though he does not use so many alliases to try and baffle people good job we are as clever as him and see through it, Unlike tubby we wont go away so call us all you want,

inigo wrote:

Afraid I'll blow you away again Andrew

Touting for business again?
As a pox-ridden Bangkok ladyboy I've no doubt this story is close to your heart.

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: I don't understand what argument Andrew and Gloria are putting forward. Are you both saying, that high rates of immigration into this country, from countries where there are existing high rates of infectious disease, will not raise the incidence of infection here? Because if this is the case. Then it's absurd, and you both need to take a good dose of reality and common sense.

Are people bringing MRSA into the country? MRSA and Cdiff were the focus of the story before your mob got hold of it.

Afraid I'll blow you away again Andrew? Just like I did over on the forum. You seem happy to debate this issue here. That is until someone puts you on the spot and asks a question, which you know would blow your agument to pieces should you give an honest answer. Your beaten again, and it's just too easy.

Gloria wrote:
Sun, put simplistically... In summer there is an increase in women having their hair cut short. However, this is not necessary CAUSED by the sun and heat, but may have MANY other factors such as Fashion, a rise in the number of hairdressers etc etc etc therefore it is a CORRELATION and not a direct CAUSE...

Some of it MAY be because it is hot and sunny, but it WILL NOT account for ALL of it...

The same applies.....

Your argument is like saying that Ice Cream sales have gone up at the same right as immigration, therefore immigrants must eat more ice-cream.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: I don't understand what argument Andrew and Gloria are putting forward. Are you both saying, that high rates of immigration into this country, from countries where there are existing high rates of infectious disease, will not raise the incidence of infection here? Because if this is the case. Then it's absurd, and you both need to take a good dose of reality and common sense.

Are people bringing MRSA into the country? MRSA and Cdiff were the focus of the story before your mob got hold of it.

Afraid I'll blow you away again Andrew? Just like I did over on the forum. You seem happy to debate this issue here. That is until someone puts you on the spot and asks a question, which you know would blow your agument to pieces should you give an honest answer. Your beaten again, and it's just too easy.

Hardly. You ducked a question again I see. Jolly well done.

Gloria wrote:
Sun, put simplistically... In summer there is an increase in women having their hair cut short. However, this is not necessary CAUSED by the sun and heat, but may have MANY other factors such as Fashion, a rise in the number of hairdressers etc etc etc therefore it is a CORRELATION and not a direct CAUSE...

Some of it MAY be because it is hot and sunny, but it WILL NOT account for ALL of it...

The same applies.....

Your argument is like saying that Ice Cream sales have gone up at the same right as immigration, therefore immigrants must eat more ice-cream.

Gloria wrote:
If we take your presumptions as read then, how do you explain the 78% of infections that DO NOT come from immigration????

Posted by: Rocky, Bowton on 1:02pm today
Yes you mean like the editorial team at the Guardian who were a tad little annoyed that a story due to appear in the newspaper had been leaked to this forum by a certain person who had been talking to one of his pals there. Only his source has dried up since.

King Eric wrote:

Posted by: Rocky, Bowton on 1:02pm today
Yes you mean like the editorial team at the Guardian who were a tad little annoyed that a story due to appear in the newspaper had been leaked to this forum by a certain person who had been talking to one of his pals there. Only his source has dried up since.

Explain

Rocky wrote:
http://www.bmj.com/c
gi/content/full/310/
6985/954


Read em and weep Gloria.


http://www.bmj.com/c
gi/content/abstract/
310/6985/963?ijkey=3
6bb163f5ae1e99cbdaca
699c1bfdb6ad0aa22e5&
keytype2=tf_ipsecsha



From the Horses mouth itself THE BMJ.

Conclusion: The average tuberculosis notification rates were related to overcrowding and the proportion of migrants

Unsurprisingly, in the 32 London boroughs tuberculosis is associated with unemployment and immigration; of more concern may be the association between recent increases in both tuberculosis and unemployment

IE MIGRANTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote: I don't understand what argument Andrew and Gloria are putting forward. Are you both saying, that high rates of immigration into this country, from countries where there are existing high rates of infectious disease, will not raise the incidence of infection here? Because if this is the case. Then it's absurd, and you both need to take a good dose of reality and common sense.

Are people bringing MRSA into the country? MRSA and Cdiff were the focus of the story before your mob got hold of it.

Afraid I'll blow you away again Andrew? Just like I did over on the forum. You seem happy to debate this issue here. That is until someone puts you on the spot and asks a question, which you know would blow your agument to pieces should you give an honest answer. Your beaten again, and it's just too easy.

Hardly. You ducked a question again I see. Jolly well done.

gabon wrote:
So according to eric and andrew the BMJ have got it wrong, Maybe it would be a good idea if these two could put them right and therefore not mislead us, You cant trust nobody these days.

King Eric wrote:
Ho ho Rocky is Ian Upton, king of the misleading scientific argument.

Andrew wrote:
Tubby eh? Wonder if he had his account terminated under the new regime and then.....

Rocky wrote:

King Eric wrote: Ho ho Rocky is Ian Upton, king of the misleading scientific argument.

Who? You mean that former UKIP activist who aligned himself with the orange one? Quoting the Guardian? ...... hardly. Keep guessing Eric I'm starting to enjoy this.

King Eric wrote:
Ho ho Rocky is Ian Upton, king of the misleading scientific argument.

Andrew wrote:

Rocky wrote:

King Eric wrote: Ho ho Rocky is Ian Upton, king of the misleading scientific argument.

Who? You mean that former UKIP activist who aligned himself with the orange one? Quoting the Guardian? ...... hardly. Keep guessing Eric I'm starting to enjoy this.

More pertinently, why the change of user name? Chucked off were we? If so, what for?

Sun Tzu wrote:

King Eric wrote:

what makes you so pedantic all the time

An article about disease, you try and hijack it with bollix about East Europeans, and I pull you.
Call me Mr Pedant.

He's not tried to hijack the thread. He makes a valid point about immigrants bringing disease into the country.
It's far from being the only issue concerning hospital infections, but will no doubt become so because you had to make a big deal of it.

A person could be excused for thinking that you Andy and Deckers are BNP activists, considering your eagerness to turn every debate into a race issue.

Rocky wrote:
http://www.bmj.com/c
gi/content/full/310/
6985/954


Read em and weep Gloria.


http://www.bmj.com/c
gi/content/abstract/
310/6985/963?ijkey=3
6bb163f5ae1e99cbdaca
699c1bfdb6ad0aa22e5&
keytype2=tf_ipsecsha



From the Horses mouth itself THE BMJ.

Conclusion: The average tuberculosis notification rates were related to overcrowding and the proportion of migrants

Unsurprisingly, in the 32 London boroughs tuberculosis is associated with unemployment and immigration; of more concern may be the association between recent increases in both tuberculosis and unemployment

IE MIGRANTS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES.

Sun Tzu wrote:
Rocky - Are you Santa Claus?

Rocky wrote:
No Gloria if you have it lets have it!

Rocky wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
Rocky - Are you Santa Claus?

No but I am one of his Elfs.

Gloria wrote:

Rocky wrote:
No Gloria if you have it lets have it!

Oh but yes, we've already established your open ended ability to re-interpret and read between the lines

Sun Tzu wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
Rocky - Are you Santa Claus?

No but I am one of his Elfs.

ET? Elvis?

Rocky wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
Rocky - Are you Santa Claus?

No but I am one of his Elfs.

ET? Elvis?

Elf during the Christmas period and a Munchkin all other times.

Sun Tzu wrote:

Rocky wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
Rocky - Are you Santa Claus?

No but I am one of his Elfs.

ET? Elvis?