Bolton town centre 'is a mess' (From The Bolton News)

Cliff Morris thinks that if he tells us often enough that Bolton Town Centre is wonderful, then we will believe him. Unfortunately most of us have eyes in our heads and can make up our own minds about it. I suppose it is good in parts - the bits between the chewing gum spattered pavements for instance. Yes, there are some good bits - but how about asking us all to write in with suggestions of how we envisage the town centre should look/operate and then take our suggestions on board. Believe you me - I have had my belly full of 'taking the Management stance' - it's a bit like the Emporer's New Clothes.

Usual crap from the left wing. Morris and his chums have ruined the town centre - now they are working on the rest of this once great town. We now rank behind Chorley and Bury.

Bolton Council should get advice from Bury Council, Bury is a delight to visit for many reasons including shopping, eating out, Bury Met. Fusiliers Museum, the Market . the Rock, town centre cinema etc .Bolton is now a depressing dump which has been created by the incompetent Council.

What is the story here? He is right. Every year it gets one step closer to being a ghost town. All the charm of the old market place was lost in that disastrous refit into plastic shops. Car parking is expensive. The only time I travel in these days is to do any banking matter I am unable to do online.

Pound shops, charity shops, pawn brokers etc

A radical strategy is needed

Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

Bolton should be a thriving Town Centre but its core is too close to boozers pubs, pawnbrokers and bookies to attract people with shopping money. You don't see people loitering aggressively around Middlebrook, Bury or Manchester Town Centres. Street drinking should be banned completely as should skateboarders, cyclists and hawkers.
The Market Place should be expanded to create more eateries and leisure and more of the external nearby shopping area should be covered.
Reduce seating on the Town Hall square and along Knowsley St to give less opportunity for "undesirables" to loiter and create more stalls in their place.

Reed Lover...

Bolton council sold the Market Hall to a private developer - thats when it became an eyesore and spoiled the integrity of the building. But what has Morris and his cronies done with the money since the sale of the building? Is it lining the bank accounts of the councillors involved (via pay-rises which the frontline staff didn't get?)

Why has no one investigated as to what was done with the money???

Years ago I can remember coaches coming into Bolton from Blackpool and other places for shopping - where are they now? Plenty of parking though - £4 on Central Street for a few hours makes sure of that!

Anyone coming in by train comes down past the grotty shops (Oh, I forgot there will be yet more of our money spent to brighten up that side of town)
and then the delights of Newport St, cheap shops, empty shops, yelling residents and early morning drinkers.

At least when we had the market on Knowsley St there was something unique, different about Bolton.

Like others, I don't go in unless no choice and would much rather go to Bury.

Thank goodness there is one Councillor that can speak the truth!
Its a dump,we lost the character of the town when the Market Hall went, we got a plastic eyesore in its place
No one listened to the people !!!!!!
. No individuality, as the little stalls had,& every historic building gone under the bulldozer. Now we have the new look bus station coming along, thank goodness I dont go to Bolton now, Im ashamed of it.

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

bang on mate, the main entrances into town centre need knocking down and rebuilding. Bank street and Bradshawgate ,Manny road end is absolutely disgusting, should take a leaf out of Bury`s book. Council are **** been saying it for years. Bolton is ruined, another thing why do all the immigrants get dumped in Bolton. I work in Manchester and my mates call Bolton Boltistan HA

Clifford Morris ought to get his priorities straight. He is making a laughing stock of what should be a thriving town. Living in Bolton is a total embarrassment at the moment. The town centre is a disgrace. Chorley Old Road is a joke. Halliwell Road isn't much better. Deane's doing OK with the University developments....

Parking is cheap in comparison with, say, Manchester. The new market place is much much better than the old one. So what is the problem? The answer is the people who frequent the town centre. Anyone with money will not go shopping where English is a second language on the street and the only 'local' people look like they should be in a circus. Bolton is finished.

I arrived back at Bolton railway Station last night after being away for Christmas,walking along Bradshawgate for my bus i was disgusted with the state of my home town. Derelict boarded up premises and filthy take aways.I could go on but most people know what I am talking about, the councill do not listen, they are to busy having a nice easy ride claiming expenses and taking back handers. What a disgrace Bolton has become.

It is easy to blame Morris and his cronies, and they should take lots of the blame, but the destruction of Bolton town centre has been going on for many years. And certainly before his time. Churchgate ruined. The Market Hall ruined. Odeon cinema. Gone. I could go on. Morris will not be happy until the Pastie Shoppe is replaced by a McDonald's.

Have they no sense?

I agree with the poll results so far - the UK economy is hurting the town centre. People don't have the same amount of money to spend. However, this is an issue with commerce and how to attract more of it in very difficult circumstances. In the respect, I feel that Bolton is falling behind - how often do people mention they now do their shopping in Bury, Wigan, Manchester, Trafford, Middlebrook? I find it hard to believe these places are easier to get to then our own town centre although admittedly free parking is a factor. Bolton town centre is a healthy commercial hub, it employs thousands of people, is a meeting point for many, has a name for itself for putting on big events like the Food & Drink festival, Ironman and has one of the best markets in the region. I think we need to think more about how to make Bolton more attractive to shoppers by building on all of the above. A bit of self-promotion never did any harm - I just don't see it. By the way, I hope the Bolton News follows this story up throughout the year and the party political bickering stops.

Aardwolf. The old Market bHall was award winning and helped to bring people from all across the country. It was Bolton's unique selling point!!! Whats happened since, the stall holders forced out and many completely out of business. New "extension" to the Market Place is ghastly. Pre-fab units in a building!!! Not all units even filled by retail outlets, employing less than 20% of the people that used to work in the old Market Hall - never won any prestigious awards. Foot-count over a 12 month period is approximately 45% less than when it was the old market hall.

All in all its a complete disaster and Bolton Council has never come clean as to what it has done with the money since they sold the Market Hall!!!

Bolton entered the 1960s with a thriving shopping centre, that went from strength to strength for the next thirty-plus years. The town centre's pull extended well beyond even the new metropolitan borough boundary, and coach parties descended from as far afield as Chester and Carlisle to shop in pedestrian-friendly, and just plain friendly, Bolton. In the early eighties, the GMPTE was forced to revise its fare structure to acknowledge the fact that people were taking the train and bus to Bolton, rather than Manchester, and just before its abolition, a GMC officer specifically conceded that "places like Bolton have a life of their own".

What went wrong? Four factors have combined to destroy it: the emergence of out-of-town retail facilities like Middlebrook and the Trafford Centre, the convenience of the Internet and the establishment of Manchester, after decades in the doldrums, as a "regional centre", where it had previously been regarded as little more than the city down the road, with nothing particular to recommend it.

The fourth factor? This is not at bottom a party-political issue, but the failure of the current regime to address the above challenges cannot be ignored. Councils of both political hues have successfully moved Bolton forward in the recent past, including through the devastation of the mill closures and the clearance of large areas of central Bolton (and Farnworth). They succesfully sidestepped the errors of other areas - very few high-rise flats, no all-encompassing shopping mall like Manchester's Arndale initially was, and they set out at every stage to improve - pedestrianisation, sympathetic development of buildings and sites and enhancement of the setting of the town's iconic town hall (now ruined by a plethora of poles and assorted clutter, and unbalanced by the removal of the fountains from opposite the town hall and their replacement by near-invisible trickles dwarfed by the frontage).

In other words - we had real imagination, and we haven't got it any more. Now we just have "vision" in the buraucrats' sense: something someone has told us to have, bulletpointed and written up so we can check what we are suposed to believe if anyone asks us.

While Bury has made the most of its assets as a much smaller market town, we have destroyed what could have been (given that it had already been through at least three refurbishments in its long life) a real selling point: a proper Lancashire market hall. Stockport has its preserved 1930s picture and variety palace in the Plaza, now once again thriving; we pulled down the Odeon, a masterpiece of art deco inside, and located in the very "cultural quarter" the council is meant to be promoting - and replaced it with - nothing. From the ABC to the old fire station to the Tech, we have allowed buildings of dignity and substance to be replaced by inferior ones that do not enhance the townscape in any way. As for Smithills Hall - the Council's craven kowtowing beggars belief.

All this after other areas have learnt their lesson in this regard - and also as regards doctrinaire anti-motorist policies. I'm all for promoting public transport, but you cannot simply force people out of their cars and on to the buses, as Manchester found out in the 1970s. They will just go elsewhere, and there are more places to go now than there were then. Besides Bolton's transport system is worse than it was 40 years ago; it is expensive, sporadic and unreliable, run largely by a company based in Oldham and overseen by a body that is not primarily interested in our area.

Would unitary status give us back some of our pride and a council that had real vision? it seems to have worked for Warrington.

Bolton has gone down hill in more ways than one. Over the past 50 years many fine buildings have been destroyed and replaced with eyesores such as:

Churchgate house
Elizabeth House
The Arndale Centre aka Crompton Place
The Picture House flats (formerly Lido)
'Lego' prefabs at South end of Bradshawgate.
Newport St between Town Hall and Gt Moor St on the West side.
Crown Courts.
The building replacing the old fire station.

Add to this the number of fine buildings demolished in the same period:
Hippodrome
Gas Offices on Hotel Street
The Railway Station.

And the permanent 'holes in the landscape' in addition to the above demolition:
The Odeon
Gregory & Porritt's on Gt Moor St
Water Place
Church Wharf Area

Add to this the arterial roads that have been stripped of buildings and now look like industrial estates. The worst of these being Manchester Road, Higher Bridge Street, Folds Road, and the area between the railway station and College Way.

All this is in addition to the empty and low quality shops already mentioned, and as a result it is no wonder that few people have pride any more in the town.

It is unacceptable to blame the decline on internet shopping, as every town has had the same exposure to this. Anyway, internet shopping has increased because of the poor quality of regular shops rather than having caused the problem in the first place. Bolton was in decline well before most people had every even heard of the internet. The council should also stop trying to blame other issues for the decline, and also trying to claim that there is not a problem.

BWFC71 wrote:
Aardwolf. The old Market bHall was award winning and helped to bring people from all across the country. It was Bolton's unique selling point!!! Whats happened since, the stall holders forced out and many completely out of business. New "extension" to the Market Place is ghastly. Pre-fab units in a building!!! Not all units even filled by retail outlets, employing less than 20% of the people that used to work in the old Market Hall - never won any prestigious awards. Foot-count over a 12 month period is approximately 45% less than when it was the old market hall.

All in all its a complete disaster and Bolton Council has never come clean as to what it has done with the money since they sold the Market Hall!!!

Great comment - I agree with your point about the Market Place. I too think it was a mistake to redevelop it the way it was done. You have some very interesting facts to hand - I wonder if you know of what came of the 80% of traders that were displaced from the market hall? Could they even be attracted back? I have a feeling that if they were it would attract a lot more of the footfall it used to get!

My mother took her anual triup to Bolton a few weeks ago for a pre-christmas shopping mission.

She came back empty handed and said I dont know why people go to Bolton...

Says it all really.


Is it me or has Whittakers gone down the pan since it became Beales? As a 33yr old i found nothing to tempt me... I was originally looking for homewares.


Bury and Chorley have done a cracking job on bringing the "out-of-town" sheds into town. They have seen the rise of this type of shopping and embraced it to bring life and vigor to the town centre. Bury the more so with The Rock.

Bolton seems to have aranged a set of these around the outskirts with the likes of Bolton Gate, Trinity Retail Park and that dump where Toys R Us is.

As for the earlier comments about migrants... Boltons success and need for cheap labour in the early part of last century drove migration from the east. These early migrants took up residence in places of cheap housing. Further migration has taken place as further migrants have come to the UK and simply moved into to areas where other people form the same culture live and thus they feel secure.

Bolton is in a mess because the good folks of Bolton have voted Labour for the last 30 years. No change of governance means Labour don't have to do anything.

I agree with Mr Crausby that Retail is fools gold as the internet is heavily impacting on our lives eg Comet.

Leisure facilities are what is needed.
Bolton should build a Exhibition Centre which is flexible enough to accomadate a Cinema, but able to hold sporting events, business events and yes pop concerts. That way we would get people into the Town.

More wine bars rather than pubs would attract more females to the Town Centre. More finacial support for the Octagon would also help bring more people to the town.

More police patrols to make Town safer would also help.

After returning to Bolton after 29 years of this once proud town. The last 10 years have gutted this town.

I remember chatting to people many years ago saying I came from Bolton and they all said it is a great town. Saying the same words in recent years and meeting other people from Bolton on route across the country, saying they are sad to leave Bolton but had no choice in the end for their children future. It is a rough town now with no direction. I am amazed how much it has changed in the last 10 years. I am back for 3 years only to finish off a University Course (not Bolton Uni). Then I will sell up and leave there is nothing to stay for apart for family.

Bolton has never been a town what supports working people. I am honestly gutted to be back. I visited the town once since I have been back, I will never go there again. It is rough, the only uniform I saw where traffic wardens waiting like vultures with a 5 minute stop watch.

Bolton is a disgraceful town, it not Bolton bashing it a fact sadly.

When I moved to Bolton some twenty years ago it was a lovely place to live and shop. It was a nice day out going into the town (especially the big market place) and doing a bit of shopping and going for lunch
Where I live is still grand, but the town centre is dreadful. Foreign beggers for instance should be sent home to their own countries to beg on their own streets instead of cluttering up the towns pavements outside boarded up shops. Sometimes on the rare occasion when I do go into the town I have to think "what country am I in"
I don't think I am racist but I am beginning to think that I am outnumbered by veiled people who don't mind living in this country but cannot or will not speak the language. Give us back our town I say

Nicely said Hulton, but one slight error. The Oldham base of First in Greater Manchester only receive orders from First's headquarters in Glasgow!!!!

But I agree with public transport and something I have been crusading for over the years both when I was in Bolton and even now whilst I am outside the town. Again most of the downfall of the bus network in the town is ultimately down to First group destroying probably the most profitable network in Lancashire but the GMPTE (as they were called then) not doing enough to stop the destruction and not helping to stabilise the network through lack of fore-thought! All the PTE did was to react rather than pre-empt First and be pro-active, although anyone with a small amount of brains could have easily been pro-active against all that was happening - but the PTE, to be fair, is far too big and needs to be broken down into North, East and South GM quangos rather than 1 big ineffective (unless one lives in Manchester itself) Quango.

Thanks BWFC71, I know First Manchester (or whatever it currently calls itself) is a subsidiary of Firstgroup.

Rather than create four GM quangos, I would abolish both Transport for Greater Manchester and Merseyside PTE and replace them with a looser tariff region, encompassing the whole of the North West's urban belt, as the Germans do. Oversight of the buses would be passed back to (possibly revised) local council areas. I think this would give places like Bolton both more direct local control and more leverage at regional level. We certainly don't get a fair crack of the whip as things stand - which hinders regeneration.

This town is a joke, instead of worrying about the main area, sort out the rest of the falling to bits rubbish, such as farnworth, great lever and such, the council are the biggest waste of space i have ever seen, they fail to act on anti-social behaviour, drug crime, and anything in between, the council, the police force and the government are being run into the ground by a bunch of overpaid overweight idiots, and do not sugar coat this by saying otherwise, maybe if Bolton council would stop sticking useless Kate Moss style shops such as H&M and Zara, Starbucks and other useless yuppie crap in, you'd easily find more useful shops wanting to join the town to help inprove which was once a great town!

moved out of bolton because it became a town of pound shop and charity shops. I am in a wheelchair and every time i went into town there was no parking for me. The rates and taxea are that high how is a buisness supposed to survive in this economy. If the rates and taxes were lowered it might attract the shops back. And install free parking a few times a week then the customers would come back. People have fell out with bolton because they do not provide for them. donna and nick from blackpool

TheBritishCrusader wrote:
This town is a joke, instead of worrying about the main area, sort out the rest of the falling to bits rubbish, such as farnworth, great lever and such, the council are the biggest waste of space i have ever seen, they fail to act on anti-social behaviour, drug crime, and anything in between, the council, the police force and the government are being run into the ground by a bunch of overpaid overweight idiots, and do not sugar coat this by saying otherwise, maybe if Bolton council would stop sticking useless Kate Moss style shops such as H&M and Zara, Starbucks and other useless yuppie crap in, you'd easily find more useful shops wanting to join the town to help inprove which was once a great town!

There is a shop on Tonge Moor Road, do lovely pairs of jackboots and tailored uniforms by Hugo Boss.

Why do you think the Council ignore what's going on by allowing the centre to become as it is or just don't see it?
Chris makes some very valid points, he may be a prat elsewhere but you can't argue with what he is saying here and Cliff's CV.
I wonder if the planners who work in the long term have engineered the decline of the town centre? There was one plan which effectively punched a hole through the town from Church Wharf, right through to Moor Lane. I couldn't see the sense in it at the time until somebody popped up with a £200 million scheme, centring around Church Wharf. I think this Council as with all socialists will trump about fairness and equality, until they see ££££ signs. They're happy with £ shops as long as they don't have to shop there but knowing there are so many, gives them a smug satisfaction in knowing this is what they not the Government have created. A once wealthy town is on the skids and the Council are doing nothing but trousering money, given by multinationals as sweeteners, then make a big (empty) announcement as if they've done the Town a favour. I'm surprised Cliff doesn't demand his subjects attend Victoria Square to hear him make his announcements. His favourite of the moment is "Stop running the Town down" if you are critical, well I'm sorry Cliff, you may walk round naked in your new robes but we can see your willy and it isn't a pretty sight.

I agree that Bolton is an absolute disgrace, I live in Farnworth and its equally as bad. dirty looking take aways, charity shops, junk shops anything but a decent shop!! I going shopping in Bury its a lovely pleasant place to shop and they have a market that is second to none. MY husband said the last time we went to Bolton that he felt like a tourist.

We left Bolton twenty years ago due to work commitments Still having family in the town, we are regular visitors, now unfortunately very disillusioned each time we visit. The pavements are full of gum, fast food packaging, all types of litter. Walking into the centre past Wellsprings you have the kids effing & blinding, riding bikes and skateboarding. God help you if you don't get out of their way. More beggars than any other town I have visited, empty shops, derelict buildings in fact any way you drive into the centre the place looks third world. There seems to be a cloud of depression over the town and no-one shows any pride in the place. If people really want to make Bolton what it once was don't blame the council, blame those who have turned the place into a tip. If you had a spare few million would you invest it Bolton?

sandra hayes wrote:
I agree that Bolton is an absolute disgrace, I live in Farnworth and its equally as bad. dirty looking take aways, charity shops, junk shops anything but a decent shop!! I going shopping in Bury its a lovely pleasant place to shop and they have a market that is second to none. MY husband said the last time we went to Bolton that he felt like a tourist.

If you're from Farnworth Sandra, you are a tourist. Cliff isn't bothered about you - he could put a lame donkey up for election and as long as it wore a red sunhat, they'd vote for it so why should he care? He's had £300,000 which was meant for you, so sits on his fence blowing raspberries because he thinks you're all so daft.

Here's something worth considering regarding the changing shopping patterns/Internet debate: There is a view that search engines like Google believe the future is 'Local', i.e. you have a local profile which is shared with others nearby. In turn this effects your Internet habits like the purchasing of products & services. Think about how you use Facebook, I'd imagine that most of your friends are local. The Internet should work for places like Bolton town centre, #ifyouknowbolton for example. The challenge then is to create a modern town centre that is compatible with the digital world we all occupy, one which attracts visitors on an interactive basis and generates real commercial advantage.

the big dog wrote:
Usual crap from the left wing. Morris and his chums have ruined the town centre - now they are working on the rest of this once great town. We now rank behind Chorley and Bury.

I shop now in Bury and Chorley because it's a pleasant and attractive option. Not ripped off for parking (Xmas parking incentive was a plus for Bolton). You can only see pound shops flourishing and multiplying in Bolton. The lazy work shy scrotes and jobless East Europeans hanging around does nothing for it's image. I saw a number of young girls walking through the precinct and these East European types make an intimidating hissing noise trying to get their attention. The girls were no more than 14 or 15. It will be a long time before I bother with Bolton Town Centre again.
Bolton Born and Bred!!

Why is it that Manchster city centre is thrivving and Bolton and other towns struggling? Is it because Bolton & the other boroughs are part of MIDAS and who's remitt.... MIDAS, acting on behalf of the ten Local Authorities of Greater Manchester, works to attract inward investment into the City Region by promoting Manchester as a leading European business location as well as a complementary proposition to the UK’s capital, London...... We should be insisting, that this organisation now ensures all future investment must go to the surrounding towns, and make the whole region prosperous not just Manchester

Get behind the what a load of town rollocks. Supply a town worth backing Cliff.

Keith Davies regeneration executive has had a £85000 pa plus pension to develop the town sack him now for failure to deliver when other neighbouring towns have Wigan Bury Chorley .

excusses galour as ever yet to action.

email cliff.morris@bolton.
gov.uk
emal keith.davies@bolton.
gov.uk

The main reason for Bolton failing is its become the international drop in centre, as the imigrants sneak through the tunnel they are directed to Bolton, The town hall square has become a meeting place for the illegals, sat outside the cafes shouting to each other in their respective languages, before collecting their benefits from the system they have never paid into. The town centre by day or night has become a No Go area, where crime pays, We are responsible for this as a country, Block the Tunnel off completely !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! forget the appeal and let them out in the community to never return system, make it a easy system, come through the tunnel without permission (Invite and papers), put straight on a plane and send them back permenant without a chance of ever returning, forget all the kids and wives regulations and rights that allow them automaticaly into this country and gets them a passport. Come on Cameran, grow some B**ls.

Morris upset at Crausby's comments because unlike him he isn't sat with his head in the sand trying to ignore what is going on, the people of bolton are proud of their town but are annoyed and frustrated to the fact it is being left to go to ruin,come up with a plan soon and if need be, swallow your pride, admit you aint got a clue and ask how surrounding towns are making improvements and bolton is not and when the ideas come in for the better do the decent thing and leave your post along with the crittens around you

Same old, same old......... Mr Morris and his buddies with their heads in the clouds. The people to blame for the way the town has gone downhill are the ones that keep voting for the Old Boys Club. Shame on them!!

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

Well said

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

Well said.

Pound shops selling tacky Chinese rubbish, charity shops selling other peoples cast offs and pawn brokers lending shoppers the cash with which to buy said rubbish. People eating chips and gravy as they wobble across the rubbish strewn town hall square their bags bulging with cheap c*ap. Bolton is now a skid row town that was once great. I prefer to shop in Chorley.

I couldn't agree more with most of the above comments. Bolton Town Centre is with doubt a complete disgrace! I'll never forget reading a letter in The Bolton News regarding the state of the place. The letter was written by a former resident of our town. After a long list of accurate observations, the letter concluded " I wiped my feet on the way out of Bolton ".

I wrote a letter that appeared pride of place 5-years ago in the BEN regarding Middlebrook, a town center cinema, and the dire state of the town. YES 5-YEARS AGO!

Nothing has been done, the town center has moved further downhill and still the arguments are banging on.

Nothing short of radical pull-down and build programs are needed. Having trotted off to many towns locally, nationally and internationally I will tell you with absolute vigor that Bolton Town Center is dead unless something drastic is done NOW.

Mark my words if this isn't sorted out very very soon, in 5-years I will point back to this comment and say I told you so, just like I am about to do now... I told you so!

So all you shills that tried to beat my opinions down 5-years ago can go flip the bird... Everybody can now see that my opinions on the town center were actually accurate... and so it continues.

Bloody hell actually that was 2006 http://www.thebolton
news.co.uk/archive/2
006/01/16/Lancashire
+Archive/6235300.Mid
dlebrook___the_out_o
f_town_centre/

Gaz1262 wrote:

the big dog wrote:
Usual crap from the left wing. Morris and his chums have ruined the town centre - now they are working on the rest of this once great town. We now rank behind Chorley and Bury.

I shop now in Bury and Chorley because it's a pleasant and attractive option. Not ripped off for parking (Xmas parking incentive was a plus for Bolton). You can only see pound shops flourishing and multiplying in Bolton. The lazy work shy scrotes and jobless East Europeans hanging around does nothing for it's image. I saw a number of young girls walking through the precinct and these East European types make an intimidating hissing noise trying to get their attention. The girls were no more than 14 or 15. It will be a long time before I bother with Bolton Town Centre again.
Bolton Born and Bred!!

spot on !

I have fond memories of Bolton,Queens park sunday morning listening to the Boys Brigade in the distance,Mossbank park, Trinity st.station with it's wonderful smokey atmosphere,Sabinis' on saturday afternoon ,big treat.The pubs in the 60s were magical ,(of course I was young then).It's sad to read all your comments about the present state of Bolton.I moved away from Bolton 40 years ago,I don't want to seem like a smart **** but in retrospect it was a wise move.PS if Bolton needs funds to rejuvinate itself they should take all the illgotten gains (aquired) by cll. morris

Whether it's Royal Bolton Hospital, the libraries reorganisation or Bolton centre, anything Cliff Morris touches turns to dross.

Surely the ruling Labour group can see that a new leader is required.

Thanks are owed to David Crausby MP for taking this issue up. He is one of those independent-minded backbenchers who justifies the support of people like myself who aren't natural Labour supporters and it can be seen why the swing against him in 2010 was so low.

bolton council please explain why the odeon was knocked down and left . its about time a compulsary notice was served on the owners to either build somthing within 6 months or loose it. ive seen there will be a new cinema complex in the canary wharf area ,wouldent it be better placed and central on the odeon site . come on bolton less mosque and more area,s to keep the kids off the streets prevent crime give kids somwhere to go

The less time I spend in Bolton the happier I feel.

I shop in Bury now and only wish I was paying rates to bury council they have given the residents in bury a town to be proud of.

WEll... how about you focus on what a disgrace the JOB CENTER IS!!! i have been there and i was on it little over 2 years and i applies for hundreds of places and the job centers here they are full of snot nosed, idiotic people who haven't got a clue what they are doing and all they do is bully people and manipulative us and all they try to do is send people to places within the bolton center or some where else to do free labor, they don't want us to get a job... they just wanna mess us about and flog us off on some cheapo company expecting us to do it for free... There are more pressing matters at the job center than the town center... and it's time you SORTED IT OUT!! the reason nobody is getting jobs there is that one reason there... so you need to have a word with the job center about their constant sending people to do crappy little free labor jobs and tell them to change how they do things because when i was there in august they were still telling me to go look in shop windows when most companies now use the internet for jobs... what is the point in walking around town when i have clue what little shops do put stuff up in the shop windows? lol i could be walking around completely undirected for ours and not find anything wasting a whole day when i could of been doing something a lot better with my time, so i think dear sir you are blaming the wrong place.

gene watts...

Because the building was a nightmare to keep secure and safe.

A piece of land is much easier and cheaper to look after.

Why should the be compelled to build anything... Its their land to grow carrots on off they wish.

How can you do anything but knock it.

In the last month the police cheif has publically stated it seems unsafe.

The MP says it looks closed for business and the boarded shops waste land litter chewing gum marked pavements crumbling roads etc.

I don't understand Mudasir (Tory councillor for Bradshaw) point here. Is he saying that he thinks that the town centre is a dump or not? Is he agreeing with Morris or Crosby?
Why is the Bolton News giving him such prominence, for saying what exactly? Maybe because they agree with his politics.

Actually all Dave Crosby was saying is because of the ConDem austerity, slash and burn policy (which Mudisar and John Walsh support) towns like Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley etc are suffering and with the cuts to council and social security budgets about to get worse, then so will the town centres.

i use to love popping into bolton as a young lad , loads of shops to go in , now i go one a year if lucky .. it is a absolute dump .now i do my shopping at the trafford centre which is a much better enviroment and also has free parking
A few more years and bolton will no longer exist as a shopping destination unless it gets a complete revamp ... the council need to look around the uk at other shopping centres , bury , carlisle , york , manchester , kendal .. all totally different sizes but all catering for people to shop , eat out etc

Town centre is going down the plughole fast.It makes The Bronx look like Park Lane.

Bury, Wigan, Salford, Chorley etc is a long way short as being as good as Bolton. We have much more to offer.
Yes improvements are required and shops will prosper when we build areas central to OUR town for entertainment, recreation, sport etc for ALL to use.
Cinema complex, Skating (like the old Navada) ice or roller (or both) with skate park, sports complex, and more. Specialists’ shops would add balance (old market hall types). Several areas for clubs to use for all ages.
I am not sure we need a new transport interchange. The current setup is acceptable for current demand. However plans to be ready to bolt on to above attractions when we have affordable transport within the Bolton borough.
Affordable car parking should be refundable to any person who uses old and new attractions or part of monthly or annual memberships.
What do our young children want! Research required at primary and secondary schools.
We have fantastic Town Hall buildings and Crescent that I am sure is the envy of other local towns? Quality period buildings,Octagon, Parish Church. Man and Sythe and some great big shops M & S to name just one, New Bolton 1 etc and much more.
Certain buildings should never have been built since the 60’s, and are not in line with much older and better.
Knock them down; we all know which ones they are. Just walk down Churchgate! And many more.
Let’s save the good and do away with the bad, and build new in line with theme.
Bradshawgate gets a lot of bad press from readers and quite rightly so, but if we change some of the purpose (not all) for this area, most of buildings are aesthetically very good. How can it be a good idea to have a kebab takeaway opposite Preston’s of Bolton! (Nothing against late night takeaways, but not there) or ensure exterior and decor needs to be in line with neighbours.
We are and could be even further “streets” ahead of local towns?
No more supermarkets, we have enough!!! No more money to Middlebrook / Reebok. Involve Emerson etc in town centre?
The powers that be need to be ruthless with the regeneration of Bolton. There has been much press about certain plans, but I feel the plans are building around poor. Flatten all area from corner of Great Moor St. (opposite old 123 cinema) all the way to Trinity St and up to University and across to Fire Station. Wm Morrison’s and Casino needs relocating? Hargreaves House needs to go and occupants housed in better. Seamlessly linking it to Le Mans crescent were restaurants, bars would be. Shops opposite old Odeon, Elizabeth House would need to go! Lever Chambers could stay maybe? Improve were necessary The Market and Bus station, but don’t spend too much of the budget here. It’s not broken.
Certain appearances of roads leading into Bolton of course need sprucing up!
lets just get on with it and all political parties stop throwing stones and blaming each other, what's been done is history ! learn from it and knock down and rebuild for the future .

It's plain and simple......just get rid of the 'dead wood' i.e. Morris, Harkin and the rest and get some younger Councillors in with fresh ideas. They'll have a hell of a job on though trying to improve this crummy dump!

If you like betting shops pawn brokers money lenders charity shops litter
Foreign languages kebab houses then Boltons the town for you.

hatonfire wrote:
I don't understand Mudasir (Tory councillor for Bradshaw) point here. Is he saying that he thinks that the town centre is a dump or not? Is he agreeing with Morris or Crosby? Why is the Bolton News giving him such prominence, for saying what exactly? Maybe because they agree with his politics. Actually all Dave Crosby was saying is because of the ConDem austerity, slash and burn policy (which Mudisar and John Walsh support) towns like Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley etc are suffering and with the cuts to council and social security budgets about to get worse, then so will the town centres.

Bolton's decline started well before 2010, hatonfire, as I'm sure you really know. This isn't party politics - but it IS about the right people for the job. Other local towns are not in the state ours is, nor did they have Bolton's former headstart in the North West's shopping league.

Cliff Morris isn't the right man for the job(s) - whichever particular one of his many hats he's wearing at any given moment.

David Crausby, like Andy Burnham in Leigh, is willing to state the truth even when it upsets the commissars who are the real decision makers in our boroughs. For that, they deserve the respect of all.

Tonka Morris take your head out of your backside and walk around town.

You have ostrich syndrome only there is only one hole big enough for your head.

I have read this article and feel compelled to add my own comments.
The decline of Bolton Town Centre has been happening for some years now. For David Crausby to start blaming the coalition is not only short sighted but a cheap way of trying to score a political point.
The problems faced by Bolton Town Centre lie well and truly at the Town Hall doors.
Maybe the coalition in central government being Conservsative and Liberal Democrat conflict with the local Labour Council.
Bolton has been a Labour stronghold for some time now and the decision making affecting all of us is made here in Bolton.
Maybe it is now time for a change.
The Labour Council of Manchester City Council has just enjoyed one of its most successful trading periods ever, record numbers through the door of the Arndale and busiest ever Saturday on the Christmas Markets. Well Mr Crausby this contradicts what you have said about the coalition.
So lets look at Bolton Town Centre, in my opinion the rot and decline started in the late 90's with the birth of Bolton Town Centre Management.
Lets not try and compete with the likes of the Trafford Centre, Manchester or Bury, lets be our own individual unique town.
One of the worst things to ever happen to the town centre was the mass pedestrianisation. Some was necessary, but in other parts has led to that isolated, unsafe feeling we all now feel if we dare to walk through certain parts.
As we all know, the loss of the Market Hall was a massive own goal, again well done Bolton council.
A leading member of Bolton Police last week had an article in the Bolton News regarding making the town centre safe for families. A very nice idea, but I would ask the question 'Where is there in the town centre to go as a family?" There are no restaurants, no cinema, nothing.
I certainly do not believe there is too much competition from surrounding areas to prevent us from once again becoming a thriving, booming town.
I can imagine families in the Northwest deciding were to go for a day out, Manchester, Trafford Centre, Preston, Blackpool. Windermere. I can categorically say no one will opt for Bolton.
I'm hoping this will now be a turning point and I honestly believe that change can only start with a radical change at the Town Hall.
Mr Crausby and the other Labour officials who have the majority share in Bolton Council you should hang your heads in shame and gain some passion for once and for all and set up a steering group of local businesses, local residents and people and lets get this town back on the map.

This is a tough issue that needs a radical solution to carve out a new niche for Bolton and generate a competitive advantage over the other retail options (Manchester, Trafford centre, Middlebrook, Online etc). Whatever the answer is it can't simply be a palliative one.

The town centre footprint will need to reduce, perhaps centred on Victoria Square, Le Mans Crescent and Bolton Market. Areas not considered core to retail will need alternative use, either for non retail businesses, green space or more free parking. Entrepreneurs could be clustered in free rent shops to establish and test out new ideas.

My only worry is that Councillors aren't necessary used to managing this type of situation and will need help and support. The task to transform a town against the backdrop of an uncertain economic climate, reduced government funding and consumer shopping trends changing faster than ever before is very difficult. I would like to see Bolton University, Bolton Council, Local businesses and local people with influence coming together to provide oversight, momentum and sponsorship of a "New Bolton" initiative.

The article has put this issue at the top of minds, is a priority for people and a plan now needs to follow. I am a resident and of course a shopper, yet going to shop in Bolton wouldn't feature in my top 5 choices, and thats not good or something I am proud of.

Kerfmar wrote:
This is a tough issue that needs a radical solution to carve out a new niche for Bolton and generate a competitive advantage over the other retail options (Manchester, Trafford centre, Middlebrook, Online etc). Whatever the answer is it can't simply be a palliative one.

The town centre footprint will need to reduce, perhaps centred on Victoria Square, Le Mans Crescent and Bolton Market. Areas not considered core to retail will need alternative use, either for non retail businesses, green space or more free parking. Entrepreneurs could be clustered in free rent shops to establish and test out new ideas.

My only worry is that Councillors aren't necessary used to managing this type of situation and will need help and support. The task to transform a town against the backdrop of an uncertain economic climate, reduced government funding and consumer shopping trends changing faster than ever before is very difficult. I would like to see Bolton University, Bolton Council, Local businesses and local people with influence coming together to provide oversight, momentum and sponsorship of a "New Bolton" initiative.

The article has put this issue at the top of minds, is a priority for people and a plan now needs to follow. I am a resident and of course a shopper, yet going to shop in Bolton wouldn't feature in my top 5 choices, and thats not good or something I am proud of.

Excellent comment! I would personally like to be involved in a "New Bolton" initiative - I think you've highlighted most of the important stakeholders however, putting politics to one side it would need to be sponsored by someone like the Chief Executive of the council. There are so many things that can be done to breathe life back into the town centre - I agree that maybe those in charge don't always have the right answers.

If the government has a deliberate policy of reducing the amount of cash in circulation (except of course for the top 10%, they can have more) I repeat if they set out to cut back on the amount of money that working people have to spend then what do you think will happen on the high street.
Tory voting working people are traitors to their neighbours.

That last comment was a bit random.

elimeleumas wrote:

Kerfmar wrote:
This is a tough issue that needs a radical solution to carve out a new niche for Bolton and generate a competitive advantage over the other retail options (Manchester, Trafford centre, Middlebrook, Online etc). Whatever the answer is it can't simply be a palliative one.

The town centre footprint will need to reduce, perhaps centred on Victoria Square, Le Mans Crescent and Bolton Market. Areas not considered core to retail will need alternative use, either for non retail businesses, green space or more free parking. Entrepreneurs could be clustered in free rent shops to establish and test out new ideas.

My only worry is that Councillors aren't necessary used to managing this type of situation and will need help and support. The task to transform a town against the backdrop of an uncertain economic climate, reduced government funding and consumer shopping trends changing faster than ever before is very difficult. I would like to see Bolton University, Bolton Council, Local businesses and local people with influence coming together to provide oversight, momentum and sponsorship of a "New Bolton" initiative.

The article has put this issue at the top of minds, is a priority for people and a plan now needs to follow. I am a resident and of course a shopper, yet going to shop in Bolton wouldn't feature in my top 5 choices, and thats not good or something I am proud of.

Excellent comment! I would personally like to be involved in a "New Bolton" initiative - I think you've highlighted most of the important stakeholders however, putting politics to one side it would need to be sponsored by someone like the Chief Executive of the council. There are so many things that can be done to breathe life back into the town centre - I agree that maybe those in charge don't always have the right answers.

Been through this with Mr causby and he has expressed these very points with Keith Davies.
It fell on death ears, they are too busy celebrating Bolton One.

The rethoric is pretty clear on this issue Bolton Council have failed the residents on regeneration.

I agree with almost all of the comments so far, but one point that seems to have been missed is The Bolton News itself. Based in the heart of the problem, why has it had to wait for an MP to raise the issue? It should be all over this as a campaigning local paper. Their staff walk past this dross every day on the way to work, so where is the insightful reporting, ideas & accountability of public officials?

Now sack Keith Davies

And ring urban splash

Minshull wrote:
I agree with almost all of the comments so far, but one point that seems to have been missed is The Bolton News itself. Based in the heart of the problem, why has it had to wait for an MP to raise the issue? It should be all over this as a campaigning local paper. Their staff walk past this dross every day on the way to work, so where is the insightful reporting, ideas & accountability of public officials?

Minshull, I suspect that the Bolton News has little interest in the town other than the money it can make out of it's residents. The newspaper holds thousands of old photographs of the town, many of which have undoubtedly been donated free of charge, yet wishes to charge an outrageous £20 to download one of these photographs.

People who keep harping on about the old Market Hall are delusional. It was a loss making anachronism. A relic of a thankfully long gone age selling products only desired by those over the age of 60. Any clothing sold stank of bacon grease or, before the smoking ban, cigarettes. It amazes me that the same people complain about the amount of pound shops that moan about the merciful demise of the old place. Why? You can now get the better products at a cheaper price! No. What is needed are more of the shops that are at the Trafford Centre concentrated into a small area. Bolton needs to encourage people with money and dissuade the penniless.

A good first step would be to put the Market Hall back to how it used to be and carry on from there !!!
And i think Cliff Morris needs to be investigated, what happened to the all the money from the Market Hall Cliff ?

Just over a year ago I moved back to Bolton after living in various parts of the UK for the past 25 years. I often have friends from other parts of the UK visit and they all remark on the surrounding countryside, friendliness of the natives and some of the areas of Bolton. But not one of them has said that the Town Centre is worth a second visit. let's be honest here. Strip clubs, pawn shops, charity shops, money lending shops, bookies, etc and the boarded up buildings aren't exactly enticing? What doe's it need? Vision. We still have some infrastructure that can be utilised and improve the towns reputation. It seems to me, that what other towns and cities have done, seems to be lacking in the leadership in Bolton?? Who is to blame? Well we are. Next time our glorious leaders come up for election, check out there policies/achievement
s and if they don't come up to scratch, vote them out!!

Many misinformed comments on here.
Firstly, councillors do not plan or indeed have any input into the development of the town centre, they vote for or against any expenditure for improvements i.e. pavements, cleaning council building and so on. The vast majority of business and car parking in the town is by private companies, most of whom do their best not to pay tax. For some reason Tory voters seem to think this is ok and look to heap all the blame for derelict, eye-sore private buildings on the council.

Davood wants the Market Hall back to how it was and asks Cliff Morris what happened to all the money?
Well people have short (very) memories. The Market Hall at the end, was in need of major strutural investment, had the council paid for the work it would have cost millions. Half the stalls were empty and getting fewer each month.
What happened to all the money? What money, there was none but so what we'll just slag-off the council anyway.

After reading all these comments I hope the powers that be sit up and take notice.

The people of Bolton are just about sick and tired of the state of their home town been turned into a ghetto. I would not like any of my grown-up grandchildren going in there at night. Too many wierdos hanging about for my liking !!!
Hopefully we can soon get rid of all those councillors who are just in it for the big pay cheques.
Get someone in who will start earning their wages for a change which is (by the way ) more than Mr David Cameron !!!.

I wrote to Bolton Council very recently stating how disgusted I was with Bolton Town Centre, comparing the facilities with Bury having recently visited there, and as expected their reply was all the usual pathetic reasons as to how it was performing well, their reason for the unkempt condition of Newport Street was due to recent financial cuts within the cleaning services , I suggest cut the amount of councillors and their expenses (first in line being Cliff Morris) no-one will miss them, and their departure will have no impact on the
town.
How much more can us Bolton people stand, the closure of certain facilities at Moss Bank Park, the demise of The Market Hall, Bolton College, Smithills Coaching House, QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED AND ANSWERED, HOW IS IT PUBLIC OPINION IS NEVER TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, SO WHY HAVE THE PETITION, MR. MORRIS'S MIND SEEMS ALWAYS TO BE MADE UP.
Until you stop voting for him and his pathetic team there will be no difference to the town, how can one man carry so much weight, in my opinion an External Audit Department must be brought in to establish that everything has been as it should be, as from many previous comments, not many folk are happy with the way Cliff Morris has conducted things.
Cliff it is time you retired and let a person/team do a better job, they cannot do any worse

hatonfire wrote:
Many misinformed comments on here.
Firstly, councillors do not plan or indeed have any input into the development of the town centre, they vote for or against any expenditure for improvements i.e. pavements, cleaning council building and so on. The vast majority of business and car parking in the town is by private companies, most of whom do their best not to pay tax. For some reason Tory voters seem to think this is ok and look to heap all the blame for derelict, eye-sore private buildings on the council.

Davood wants the Market Hall back to how it was and asks Cliff Morris what happened to all the money?
Well people have short (very) memories. The Market Hall at the end, was in need of major strutural investment, had the council paid for the work it would have cost millions. Half the stalls were empty and getting fewer each month.
What happened to all the money? What money, there was none but so what we'll just slag-off the council anyway.

Please would you care to explain that if the problems are somebody else's fault other than the council, then how come many other towns do not have as bad a problem?

Similarly, how is it that Bury, which regularly changes it's council between Conservative and Labour is in much better shape than permanently Labour controlled Bolton?

I was born and bred in Bolton and used to be a proud of my roots.
Now I only shop in the town centre if I have to.
The place is becoming an eyesore, and its rare you hear an English voice.
Not many years from now it will be a ghost town.

But we have Bolton One. I know its a joke

But we have Bolton One. I know its a joke

Whats wrong with Bolton town center? EVERY THING . The main shopping areas are scattered about town the parking areas are out side the the town center. Half the parking in the and around town hall is usually coned of the shuttle service is crap the smell of greasy hot dogs and other fast food aromas fill the square,along with the discarded food containers .At the new Bolton 1 health and leisure center parking is a farce and not monitored the times I have had to reverse on to the dual carriage way because some moron has parked where they should not even ambulances cant park at the health center , Bolton has some good points , the town center is not one them go into town once a week take money from the bank and then go into Bury and say hello to the Rock shopping center ,the market and the mall I like Bolton it has its good points but .

grimtown wrote:
But we have Bolton One. I know its a joke

Doh, I am NOT laughing.

WE NEED A BOMB. full stop

Dumping ground of the northwest

Bolton town centre has been on a downward spiral for the last 115 years. This has not happened overnight. There are dozens of towns in the north suffering the same fate as all investment has gone into Manchester Leeds Liverpool and Newcastle at the expense of all the smaller towns and cities. Bolton is a dump full of chavs and criminals-many immigrant-and a sea of pound shops,bookies and takeaways. I cannot see it getting better until we leave Greater Manchester and stop living off Manchester's coattails and we also get rid of the Labour Council and their council dinosaurs like Morris. We need young vibrant people running the town with fresh ideas but all we have are relics like Morris Thomas Harkin and on the Tory side Walsh. We have a set of appalling MP's especially Qureshi who has to be the worst MP in Bolton in political history.

Sorry meant 15 not 115 lol

hatonfire wrote:
I don't understand Mudasir (Tory councillor for Bradshaw) point here. Is he saying that he thinks that the town centre is a dump or not? Is he agreeing with Morris or Crosby?
Why is the Bolton News giving him such prominence, for saying what exactly? Maybe because they agree with his politics.

Actually all Dave Crosby was saying is because of the ConDem austerity, slash and burn policy (which Mudisar and John Walsh support) towns like Bolton, Wigan, Blackburn, Burnley etc are suffering and with the cuts to council and social security budgets about to get worse, then so will the town centres.

Haton

Bury, Wigan & charley aren't suffering as much as Bolton.

After reading most of the comments it's disappointing to see the poor standard of education amonst the town's folk. I just hope you are in the minority.

If you vote for the Con party, the party that thinks working class people have too much money and don't work hard enough, I can only assume you must be merchant bankers or CEOs of utility companies, the one's that the Tories think deserve more.
But somehow I doubt that you are.

emmbee90 wrote:
WEll... how about you focus on what a disgrace the JOB CENTER IS!!! i have been there and i was on it little over 2 years and i applies for hundreds of places and the job centers here they are full of snot nosed, idiotic people who haven't got a clue what they are doing and all they do is bully people and manipulative us and all they try to do is send people to places within the bolton center or some where else to do free labor, they don't want us to get a job... they just wanna mess us about and flog us off on some cheapo company expecting us to do it for free... There are more pressing matters at the job center than the town center... and it's time you SORTED IT OUT!! the reason nobody is getting jobs there is that one reason there... so you need to have a word with the job center about their constant sending people to do crappy little free labor jobs and tell them to change how they do things because when i was there in august they were still telling me to go look in shop windows when most companies now use the internet for jobs... what is the point in walking around town when i have clue what little shops do put stuff up in the shop windows? lol i could be walking around completely undirected for ours and not find anything wasting a whole day when i could of been doing something a lot better with my time, so i think dear sir you are blaming the wrong place.

Last time I went into Bolton when it was raining you couldn't cross at the pedestrian crossing with the water coming over your shoe tops. instead of moaning about the wild goose chases the job centre sends folk on they should put all the lay abouts to work cleaning all the grids and gully.

Minshull wrote:
I agree with almost all of the comments so far, but one point that seems to have been missed is The Bolton News itself. Based in the heart of the problem, why has it had to wait for an MP to raise the issue? It should be all over this as a campaigning local paper. Their staff walk past this dross every day on the way to work, so where is the insightful reporting, ideas & accountability of public officials?

I couldn't agree more! But we no longer have a BEN. We have a paper run by owners who no longer live in the town who are only interested in the bottom line and staff that are demoralised. Councillors are busy serving their own ends and voters who don't bother voting. We get what we deserve. Foul mouthed youths and a run down town.

Minshull wrote:
I agree with almost all of the comments so far, but one point that seems to have been missed is The Bolton News itself. Based in the heart of the problem, why has it had to wait for an MP to raise the issue? It should be all over this as a campaigning local paper. Their staff walk past this dross every day on the way to work, so where is the insightful reporting, ideas & accountability of public officials?

I couldn't agree more! But we no longer have a BEN. We have a paper run by owners who no longer live in the town who are only interested in the bottom line and staff that are demoralised. Councillors are busy serving their own ends and voters who don't bother voting. We get what we deserve. Foul mouthed youths and a run down town.

These comments should be printed in an extended edition of the Bolton News, it's heartening to read the passion and concern, but it needs transforming into action.

I wholeheartedly agree with the comments highlighted by David Crausby. At last someone has decided to step out from the shadows cast by Councillor Morris and his cronies and speak the truth.
The town is a disgrace. It is in total decline whilst the leader is in total denial. As a rate payer and long time resident of the Borough I am disgusted and saddened by the lack of commitment shown by this present Council leader. He quotes that "we are in a better position than comparable towns." This raises the question has he ever been to Bury, Wigan, Chorley to name but a few? All of these I would sooner travel to to shop rather than trudge around a depressing, dying, dilapidated town centre. Perhaps Councillor Morris is comparing us to some third world townships especially when you have to travel over unmade roads.
Councillor Morris also states that "we should be backing the town and not putting it down". Well, Councillor Morris how about you backing the town?
Councillor Morris has run the once vibrant and energetic town into the ground. People used to flock to our town for its shopping facilities and variety. Now they gladly pass us by. We are, or at least should be, an up and coming University town with an influx of students, which should rejuvenate the ailing night life However, we are yet to see any such improvement. Is Councillor Morris seriously surprised that the town failed to achieve its City status? If so, then Councillor Morris must have his eyes glued shut and accept that his time as the town leader has come to an end.
Councillor Morris must stop blaming government cuts for the town as this has been eroded over years of mismanagement and misspending. Other neighboring towns have suffered exactly the same cuts yet are thriving in comparison to Bolton. They have towns that they are proud of.
I would welcome a referendum asking for our views on how the town should progress in the future. I'm sure that the first suggestion would be to rid of Councillor Morris and make way for a town leader who will actually care for the town and its people. Shame on you Councillor Morris!!!!

I think that the comments on this report just about say it all... I don;t want to be sounded out as one of these activist terrorists as the gov like to call protestors these days, but I think it is time the people of Bolton stopped sitting down at home to moan and get down into the town center en-mass and demand the answers that we deserve.

I think that the comments on this report just about say it all... I don;t want to be sounded out as one of these activist terrorists as the gov like to call protestors these days, but I think it is time the people of Bolton stopped sitting down at home to moan and get down into the town center en-mass and demand the answers that we deserve.

Beyond News Forum wrote:
I think that the comments on this report just about say it all... I don;t want to be sounded out as one of these activist terrorists as the gov like to call protestors these days, but I think it is time the people of Bolton stopped sitting down at home to moan and get down into the town center en-mass and demand the answers that we deserve.

START BY EMAILING CLIFF MORRIS AND ASKING FOR A READ RECEIPT OF HIM:)

Once again, another passionate subject about the state of Bolton.

Deep at its heart, is our old stalwart, Mr Morris. I am not going to pass any comments about his abilities, anyone with a sense of personal pride and self belief, should just walk around Bolton town centre.

You can just see Mr Morris now, shoulders back, chest all puffed out, " Look at what I have left as a legacy for the people of Bolton".

If you can do this, with a true sense of purpose, looking every Boltonian deep in their eyes, then you have nothing to be ashamed of.

As for the future, Bolton and its business people should look towards the Rotary Club, Guildsmen, yes, even Masons.

Go back to the old school, build up individual, localised, independent businesses, with a view to catering for its own people first.

Having lived and worked for many years abroad, the strongest have always been the most independent. There is a power from being individual and this identity needs to be put back into Bolton.

Yes, there are strong threats coming from Horwich, Trafford, Bury and that is why the focus has to be aimed at the people of Bolton first.

Once, the town becomes a thriving centre of commerce again, it is a cert that interest will follow from other locations.

But, this is the warning, as long as you have supermarkets dominating, large multinationals, dominating the retail layout, Bolton will continue to struggle.

If the Council refuses to assist with the development of a aesthetically pleasing shopping experience, the problems will persist.

If I was to change a few things:

1. Limit takeaways and aggressively raise hygiene & catering standards.

2. Limit charity shops

3. Encourage new businesses to enter the town with good incentives.

This will come with creative mid/long term planning.

If anyone of the Council's exec. cannot brainstorm, they should not be doing the job, they are unqualified.

Creating vision is all about ideas, some will work, others won't. But the vision is the path you travel in developing these ideas. They will change, they will be modified, but in the end, it is down to the individual, not a consultant or what someone else is doing.

In summary, like I have said many times, the people of Bolton need to be motivated to change their town. Morris and his Keystone Cop entourage will not do it for you.

Its good business people of Bolton that will do it.

Look at Ye Olde Pastie Shop ( Walshes), Prestons, this is where you should be looking. These two business people alone could utilise their knowledge and transform Bolton far better than any team of councillors!

Vote of No Confidence in Morris & his cronies, go now, you have your wedge, you have shafted your people, but for Gawd sake, spare these people from your pitiful excuses and lies.

hatonfire wrote:
After reading most of the comments it's disappointing to see the poor standard of education amonst the town's folk. I just hope you are in the minority.

If you vote for the Con party, the party that thinks working class people have too much money and don't work hard enough, I can only assume you must be merchant bankers or CEOs of utility companies, the one's that the Tories think deserve more.
But somehow I doubt that you are.

Haton regardless of if you are a merchant banker, the editor of the socialist worker or the fat controller at the council, can you honestly say that you think Bolton town centre is a good advert for the town?

This town will not improve until....

1st and foremost, that fat lump of lard MUST be removed as "leader" of this so called coucil.

2nd. keith davies should be removed from his flowery named post. Would love to know what his salary and cv looks like.

3rd. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Eric Pickles should use Bolton as a blueprint for showing how a town centres can be managed properly.
I'm sure he could get together the people necessary to undertake this task.
The time has come where the likes of the Lardy Morris's of this country should be swept away.
The man himself was no more than a glorified wine waiter in his former life, some would say a director of s/hills coaching house.
Perhaps that explains why the place stagnated and slipped into oblivion.
Let's not forget his "expertise" within the NHS at Royal Bolton Trust, left leaving a total shambles of the finances.
I could go on................

In the real world of business lardy morris would not 5 minutes.

Shopping at the Middlebrook or the Trafford Centre is a completely different experience than in the town centre. Why can't we use this as an example and create a similar centre of the bigger names with an outer area of the smaller, more specialised shops? The solution is there so it's just a matter of making it happen.

Whoever allowed Primark to shut off the walkway to Bradshawgate from the Arndale a few years ago should be sacked too. That one stupid move killed Bradshawgate and its few remaining shops. That walkway needs rebuilding somewhere in that centre or in Shipgates.

Given the fact that Bolton is and always has been a low wage economy, the ConDem government have reduced the grant coupled with a freeze on public sector wages and a reduction in benefits then, yes Bolton is a good example of a hardworking northern town.
What is a bad example however, is local people calling their home town a hole, an embarrassment, a disgrace and other such comments most of which are totally unjustified.

This 'Bolton is Crap' thing is Councillor Little Johnny Walsh starting the 2014 local election campaign with what is to be the central plank of the Tory attempt to gain votes.
They cannot possibly hope to win votes with their woeful record so blaming the council for the state of the local economy is what they are trying to do.

hatonfire wrote:
Given the fact that Bolton is and always has been a low wage economy, the ConDem government have reduced the grant coupled with a freeze on public sector wages and a reduction in benefits then, yes Bolton is a good example of a hardworking northern town.
What is a bad example however, is local people calling their home town a hole, an embarrassment, a disgrace and other such comments most of which are totally unjustified.

This 'Bolton is Crap' thing is Councillor Little Johnny Walsh starting the 2014 local election campaign with what is to be the central plank of the Tory attempt to gain votes.
They cannot possibly hope to win votes with their woeful record so blaming the council for the state of the local economy is what they are trying to do.

Is your head buried in the same hole as lardy morris's, must be quite a squeeze.

So Bert, abuse is your only answer.

Why do you support the posh boy Tories?

Does it make you feel posh too if you buy the Mail and say 'I'm a Conservative'. Traitor to northern working people is what you are.

How is it one man can ruin a town like Bolton?Surely the tens of thousands of people disgruntled with cll Morris could get him removed if they were organized.Dish up some dirt on him,harass him,make his life a misery,just like he's doing to you.Oops,I must have been talking in my sleep

Nut asks 'How is it one man can ruin a town like Bolton'.
Answer, he can't.

All this Morris, Bolton bashing is a feeble attempt to divert the blame from the Con party who have slashed the money available for services in Bolton.

Ask the Minister responsible Eric (I ate all the pies) Pickles why he's cut our money.

Pickles, now if you're looking for a lardman, you'll find no finer example.

grimtown wrote:

Beyond News Forum wrote:
I think that the comments on this report just about say it all... I don;t want to be sounded out as one of these activist terrorists as the gov like to call protestors these days, but I think it is time the people of Bolton stopped sitting down at home to moan and get down into the town center en-mass and demand the answers that we deserve.

START BY EMAILING CLIFF MORRIS AND ASKING FOR A READ RECEIPT OF HIM:)

LOL actually he couldn't hide behind e-mail if he was cornered at the office.

At last some one has said what most people think about Bolton town center,
My wife moved from York to Bolton after we were married and she couldn't believe how bad it was, Just look what Bury council have created with the Rock, I am a proud Boltonian but our sad town center embarrasses me,
How do our council get away with it?
Our once wonderful Market hall now just another half empty shopping Mall, just so sad

I wonder what visitors to bolton think. How embarrising to drive off the A666 and turn into Bradshawgate to the right and see boarded up shops with graffiti daubed all over them. And if you go to the right into Manchester Road the old college area boarded up and overgrown. Even the town centre is a disgrace the site of the old Rank building near the bus station HOW is that a welcoming sign to visitors.
The revamped market place that used to have so many welcoming and eye pleasing stalls now gone to be replaced by god knows how many empty units.

Bolton town centre is a DISGRACE and it's about time our councillors woke up to the fact.

There are so many people in denial about the demise of Bolton town centre Bolton started to fall apart from the mid 1990's onwards and the Labour government 1997-2010 and the Labour Council are hugely responsible for that. The economic downturn plays only a tiny part in Bolton Town Centre's struggles and to blame it on the downturn is a cop out. Bury,Manchester,Stoc

kport,Preston even Wigan are doing well. Bolton as a town centre is down amongst the dead men with Blackburn Burnley and Rochdale. Until we vote the Labour Council out then we as a town are doomed.We need younger people running the town not dinosaurs like Morris Thomas Harkin etc. All of them seem to have been in the towns corridors of power since the year dot and have stood on a platform of failure. The Tories would do little better. Our town's MP's are shockingly bad especially Yasmin Qureshi who seems more bothered about Palestine than Farnworth.People were warned before she was elected that she would be an appalling MP and we have been proved right.Without doubt the worst ever MP in our towns political history. Sadly the brainwashed masses keep voting Labour.When will you learn? In some towns UKIP are making strides but in Bolton the public still have this braindead "I vote Labour because my dad voted Labour" mentality. You reap what you sow. We need to get out of Greater Manchester too and market the town in a better way and away from this Greater Manchester "shackles" which harms our progress as all investment goes to Manchester not here.If the town was the market itself as "South Lancashire's Capital" it would provide a better image to outsiders than what we currently have which is of a "Satellite" town of Manchester. Bolton is failing and will carry on being a cesspit full of bookies,pound shops and takeaways while Labour locally rule the roost. Mass immigration also is ruining the towns image and the nickname of "Boltonistan" sadly is well deserved.If I could move out of Bolton and I am born and bred here I would. The "Bolton Family"? It is dysfunctional and broken. I would never vote Tory but in reply to the earlier contributor who said if any Northerner votes Tory they are a traitor,maybe,but I am working class and I see the Labour Party and socialism as the enemy. I in the past have only voted UKIP and BNP and frankly they would be my only viable options next time unless a credible Independent candidate stands. The three main parties have failed-especially Labour-both locally and nationally and have no long term vision to change things.

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

I think you raise a interesting and a fantastic point there. Why is nothing done about this mess?

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

I think you raise an interesting point there nothing is being done about it, when will it be that Bolton actually looks impressive,

Trace the downward spiral of the town centre back to 95-96, with the then Labour Council under the leadership of Counc Bob Howarth. The council wanted BWFC out of town because of trouble in the town centre which was
having an effect on Saturday shoppers.
The council, who by the way had no love for Bolton Wanderers, together with the the board of BWFC, chairman Gordon Hargreaves (builder/developer) who no doubt could see opportunities of his own, walked rough-shod over supporters wishes and relocated the club to Horwich. No debate no referendum. The Emerson Group were brought on board rubbing their hands with glee and the rest is history. Big offices which once would have located in Bolton moved out too and Middlebrook was created.

For the information of the Tory supporters who think that privatizing every service is the answer please read the following regarding train fares.

UK - Woking (Surrey) to London, 22 miles, £3,268
FRANCE - Ballancourt-sur-Esso
nne to Paris, 24 miles, £924
GERMANY - Strasbourg to Berlin, 21 miles, £705
SPAIN - Collado-Villalba to Madrid, 22 miles, £653

http://www.dailymail
.co.uk/news/article-
2097089/Britains-rai
lways-expensive-comf
ortable-efficient-Eu
rope.html

Public Subsidy to Rail Networks as % GDP
Germany 0.497
France 0.330
UK 0.326
Spain 0.205

The level of public subsidy in France & the UK are virtually the same yet the season ticket price in France is less than a third of for a similar distance in England

Of the above, the UK alone operates a completely privatised rail network. Since privatisation the level of subsidy provided to UK train operators has TRIPLED

The fare examples above are for season tickets.

Attractions should be brought back into the town centre. i.e. cinema, a water place type attraction (not that useless Bolton One) etc as well as reducing shop rates, reduced/free parking prices and cleaning up the town. This will encourages others to even contemplate to come. It's no secret that councils have hiden away £££'s for years in preparation for any financial slump, it's about time this was spent to start to improve what was once a great town.

Rawenergy wrote:
Attractions should be brought back into the town centre. i.e. cinema, a water place type attraction (not that useless Bolton One) etc as well as reducing shop rates, reduced/free parking prices and cleaning up the town. This will encourages others to even contemplate to come. It's no secret that councils have hiden away £££'s for years in preparation for any financial slump, it's about time this was spent to start to improve what was once a great town.

Ahhh! But the excuse they will use is that they money they had in savings was with an Icelandic Bank that went bankrupt - but what they don't say is that they actually received all of the money back after having to take the Icelandic Government to court (along with various other councils from around Europe, including my local Council of Almere)!!!!

so that is a further question - where is that money? If it has been spent, then what has it been spent on?

There seems to be money hidden all over the plasce - where is all this money or what has it been spent on????? If the money is there then why not use it to help save front-line jobs and services!!!

hatonfire wrote:
For the information of the Tory supporters who think that privatizing every service is the answer please read the following regarding train fares.

UK - Woking (Surrey) to London, 22 miles, £3,268
FRANCE - Ballancourt-sur-Esso

nne to Paris, 24 miles, £924
GERMANY - Strasbourg to Berlin, 21 miles, £705
SPAIN - Collado-Villalba to Madrid, 22 miles, £653

http://www.dailymail

.co.uk/news/article-

2097089/Britains-rai

lways-expensive-comf

ortable-efficient-Eu

rope.html

Public Subsidy to Rail Networks as % GDP
Germany 0.497
France 0.330
UK 0.326
Spain 0.205

The level of public subsidy in France & the UK are virtually the same yet the season ticket price in France is less than a third of for a similar distance in England

Of the above, the UK alone operates a completely privatised rail network. Since privatisation the level of subsidy provided to UK train operators has TRIPLED

Actually the UK does NOT operate a fully privatised rail network!!!! Network Rail, itself is a not-for-profit government quango!!!

Also with France and Germany it is actually 100% privatised BUT the quirky is that the government own 100% shares the main train operating companies - but are classed as Private companies and not Public companies - same happens in The Netherlands where the main train operator (Nederlands Spoorwegen) is actually a Private company but 100% shares are owned by the government and as such is NOT a Public company.

A bit like The Manchester Airport Group is owned by the 10 authorities of Greater Manchester but is classed as a private company!!! It the same with RBS and HBOS - although the Government owns most of the shares (i.e. a controlling majority) they are not public companies but still classed as private.

hatonfire wrote:
Nut asks 'How is it one man can ruin a town like Bolton'.
Answer, he can't.

All this Morris, Bolton bashing is a feeble attempt to divert the blame from the Con party who have slashed the money available for services in Bolton.

Ask the Minister responsible Eric (I ate all the pies) Pickles why he's cut our money.

Pickles, now if you're looking for a lardman, you'll find no finer example.

not quite..... the problems with Bolton Town Centre started just over 5/6 years ago - BEFORE the recession and the austerity measures.

Just before the Local elections the council froze the Council tax for 1 year and re-introduced weekly bin collections - I said at the time that this was a sweetener for votes and it would come back to bit them in the nose - I wasn't wrong!!!!

The Council had saved MILLIONS with an Icelandic Bank which crashed. teh counil, along with other councils in the Uk and mainland Europe took the Icelandic government to court to recoup the losses - what was never reported in the Bolton News was that the money was fullly recovered. Plus add that money to ALL the land they have sold off in the last 10 years - WHERE IS THE MONEY????

The question now arises is that they have millions and millions saved up somewhere and not using it - its gaining interest and they are continually selling land off and using the ConDems austerity measures for the cuts in front-line services and jobs? WHY??? There are other counils within a 50 mile radius who arre succeeding during these tough times, and had their government hand-outs slashed - so what is going wrong with Bolton???

It is a complete mis-management and all cloak and dagger to try to keep the towns citizens in the real dark and to manipulate their own manifesto in blaming everything on the current Government and its measures.

I am no Tory voter, nor Labour nor LibDems but what Bolton Council are doing is a complete disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves - they are their for their voters and their voters needs not for their own profiteering greed!!!

Bolton, Take a big deep breath, stand down the parking people for the rest of the year.You cannot keep chasing customers away from the few existing cafes,bars and restaurants.If you delay you will pass the point of no return.We are very very close to that point.Look around this is a fact .

markwads@sky.com wrote:

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

Well said.

absolutrely well said,why not an investigation?

johnkerfoot wrote:

markwads@sky.com wrote:

BWFC71 wrote:
Does Councillor Clifford "I dont care about the people just as long as I get my pay and pay rises in ALL of my jobs" Morris ever go into the town centre?

It is a complete eyesore. Manchester Road - boarded up shops, empty spaces where buildings have been knocked down or burnt down. Bradshawgate, boarded-up shops , buildings empty for long periods that vandalism has taken place. Basically on THE main road into Bolton between Great Moor Street and just after Orlando Bridge there is no business, no offuces in use and its a complete wasteland. Infact coming into Bolton from any direction is like as though one is entering a war-torn country with all the wastelands, boarded up buildings, vandalism etc etc etc.

CLIFFORD MORRIS - OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! YOUR PARTY AND LEADERSHIP HAS DESTROYED THE ONCE RICH AND INDUSTRIAL TOWN! YOUR OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED!!!!

Now get back and do your other two jobs which seem to be more important to you than actually trying to get Bolton better!!!

Councillor Clifford most recent working records:
Head of school governors - was replaced as school lost money and could not afford repairs. But now head governor at another school and things, from what I have heard, are going from bad to worse for the school!!!

Head of Bolton NHS - forced out of his job by the government due to failing the community and moeny not, and still not, accounted for. Next thing you know he accepts a job with the AGMA Health department for even more money than what he was on at Bolton NHS (why has he not been questioned by the police or other authorities over the missing money???)

Head of Bolton Council - just look at the state of Bolton Town Centre - chain shops closing, Other shops threatening to leave, full of pound shops and high APR money lending outlets - boarded up shops in the centre of town, wastelands in the centre of town - now currently ranked behind Bury and Chorley who have both survived the recession and actually prospered (as well as Wigan, Manchester, Salford Quays, Walkden and Swinton). Failed Farnworth - in fact Farnworth is just as bad as Bolton now for the shocking state it is in!!!

Was a shareholder in Smithills Coaching House - funny how the council approved the change of use and building on green-belt land so easily, after the restaurant closed down!!! How much money did he make from teh sale to Jones' Homes???


So that is one person with 3 jobs and 2 wages and other income and he has failed at everything he has touched - It is no wonder the town is in a state it is - he is happy with his money, doesn't care about people, jobs, buildings, voters. Its about time Morris and his cronies were either forced to resign through mis-management or vote them out in the next locals!!!

Well said.

absolutrely well said,why not an investigation?

Investigation now... or he should resign and still be investigated.

Maybe a public v council lawsuit should be raised.

Bolton town centre was in decline before the financial crisis put the country into recession. Planning policy both locally and nationally has wrecked town after town. Cllr Morris is in denial.

How can we get the ball rolling to get Morris out, i think he is a major factor in the decline of our town, get him out then investigate him !!

Reality50 wrote:
There are so many people in denial about the demise of Bolton town centre Bolton started to fall apart from the mid 1990's onwards and the Labour government 1997-2010 and the Labour Council are hugely responsible for that. The economic downturn plays only a tiny part in Bolton Town Centre's struggles and to blame it on the downturn is a cop out. Bury,Manchester,Stoc


kport,Preston even Wigan are doing well. Bolton as a town centre is down amongst the dead men with Blackburn Burnley and Rochdale. Until we vote the Labour Council out then we as a town are doomed.We need younger people running the town not dinosaurs like Morris Thomas Harkin etc. All of them seem to have been in the towns corridors of power since the year dot and have stood on a platform of failure. The Tories would do little better. Our town's MP's are shockingly bad especially Yasmin Qureshi who seems more bothered about Palestine than Farnworth.People were warned before she was elected that she would be an appalling MP and we have been proved right.Without doubt the worst ever MP in our towns political history. Sadly the brainwashed masses keep voting Labour.When will you learn? In some towns UKIP are making strides but in Bolton the public still have this braindead "I vote Labour because my dad voted Labour" mentality. You reap what you sow. We need to get out of Greater Manchester too and market the town in a better way and away from this Greater Manchester "shackles" which harms our progress as all investment goes to Manchester not here.If the town was the market itself as "South Lancashire's Capital" it would provide a better image to outsiders than what we currently have which is of a "Satellite" town of Manchester. Bolton is failing and will carry on being a cesspit full of bookies,pound shops and takeaways while Labour locally rule the roost. Mass immigration also is ruining the towns image and the nickname of "Boltonistan" sadly is well deserved.If I could move out of Bolton and I am born and bred here I would. The "Bolton Family"? It is dysfunctional and broken. I would never vote Tory but in reply to the earlier contributor who said if any Northerner votes Tory they are a traitor,maybe,but I am working class and I see the Labour Party and socialism as the enemy. I in the past have only voted UKIP and BNP and frankly they would be my only viable options next time unless a credible Independent candidate stands. The three main parties have failed-especially Labour-both locally and nationally and have no long term vision to change things.

Fantastic post,well said !!

swager123 wrote:

Reality50 wrote:
There are so many people in denial about the demise of Bolton town centre Bolton started to fall apart from the mid 1990's onwards and the Labour government 1997-2010 and the Labour Council are hugely responsible for that. The economic downturn plays only a tiny part in Bolton Town Centre's struggles and to blame it on the downturn is a cop out. Bury,Manchester,Stoc



kport,Preston even Wigan are doing well. Bolton as a town centre is down amongst the dead men with Blackburn Burnley and Rochdale. Until we vote the Labour Council out then we as a town are doomed.We need younger people running the town not dinosaurs like Morris Thomas Harkin etc. All of them seem to have been in the towns corridors of power since the year dot and have stood on a platform of failure. The Tories would do little better. Our town's MP's are shockingly bad especially Yasmin Qureshi who seems more bothered about Palestine than Farnworth.People were warned before she was elected that she would be an appalling MP and we have been proved right.Without doubt the worst ever MP in our towns political history. Sadly the brainwashed masses keep voting Labour.When will you learn? In some towns UKIP are making strides but in Bolton the public still have this braindead "I vote Labour because my dad voted Labour" mentality. You reap what you sow. We need to get out of Greater Manchester too and market the town in a better way and away from this Greater Manchester "shackles" which harms our progress as all investment goes to Manchester not here.If the town was the market itself as "South Lancashire's Capital" it would provide a better image to outsiders than what we currently have which is of a "Satellite" town of Manchester. Bolton is failing and will carry on being a cesspit full of bookies,pound shops and takeaways while Labour locally rule the roost. Mass immigration also is ruining the towns image and the nickname of "Boltonistan" sadly is well deserved.If I could move out of Bolton and I am born and bred here I would. The "Bolton Family"? It is dysfunctional and broken. I would never vote Tory but in reply to the earlier contributor who said if any Northerner votes Tory they are a traitor,maybe,but I am working class and I see the Labour Party and socialism as the enemy. I in the past have only voted UKIP and BNP and frankly they would be my only viable options next time unless a credible Independent candidate stands. The three main parties have failed-especially Labour-both locally and nationally and have no long term vision to change things.

Fantastic post,well said !!

SPOT ON

oftbewildered2 wrote:
Cliff Morris thinks that if he tells us often enough that Bolton Town Centre is wonderful, then we will believe him. Unfortunately most of us have eyes in our heads and can make up our own minds about it. I suppose it is good in parts - the bits between the chewing gum spattered pavements for instance. Yes, there are some good bits - but how about asking us all to write in with suggestions of how we envisage the town centre should look/operate and then take our suggestions on board. Believe you me - I have had my belly full of 'taking the Management stance' - it's a bit like the Emporer's New Clothes.

SPOT ON

Sirrius7 wrote:
Bolton Council should get advice from Bury Council, Bury is a delight to visit for many reasons including shopping, eating out, Bury Met. Fusiliers Museum, the Market . the Rock, town centre cinema etc .Bolton is now a depressing dump which has been created by the incompetent Council.

THEY WON'T THEY THINK ITS GREAT

Pack says that planning policy has wrecked town after town. many other posters think that Cliff Morris is solely responsible for the lack of private investment into Bolton.

These and other ridiculous claims are clearly an orchestrated attempt by the local Tories to divert attention away from the incompetent management of the economy by the appalling, out of touch, arrogant government.
Yet the silly Con voters will carry on pretending that they are really better people than those awful working types who vote Labour.
Because that's what Tories do.

hatonfire wrote:
Pack says that planning policy has wrecked town after town. many other posters think that Cliff Morris is solely responsible for the lack of private investment into Bolton.

These and other ridiculous claims are clearly an orchestrated attempt by the local Tories to divert attention away from the incompetent management of the economy by the appalling, out of touch, arrogant government.
Yet the silly Con voters will carry on pretending that they are really better people than those awful working types who vote Labour.
Because that's what Tories do.

The TC is a local issue regeneration executive is paid £80,000 pa to regenerate Bolton Town Center.

So why at every turn is the economy blamed bank st was a **** hole 20 years ago and still is

Grim, I can only assume your understanding of the relationship between the provider and the consumer is as poor as your literacy.

Bank Street (if that's what you mean) is populated by private businesses.
I agree it looks awful and if some of these buildings were council offices they would certainly look a lot better.

BWFC71 wrote:

hatonfire wrote:
For the information of the Tory supporters who think that privatizing every service is the answer please read the following regarding train fares.

UK - Woking (Surrey) to London, 22 miles, £3,268
FRANCE - Ballancourt-sur-Esso


nne to Paris, 24 miles, £924
GERMANY - Strasbourg to Berlin, 21 miles, £705
SPAIN - Collado-Villalba to Madrid, 22 miles, £653

http://www.dailymail


.co.uk/news/article-


2097089/Britains-rai


lways-expensive-comf


ortable-efficient-Eu


rope.html

Public Subsidy to Rail Networks as % GDP
Germany 0.497
France 0.330
UK 0.326
Spain 0.205

The level of public subsidy in France & the UK are virtually the same yet the season ticket price in France is less than a third of for a similar distance in England

Of the above, the UK alone operates a completely privatised rail network. Since privatisation the level of subsidy provided to UK train operators has TRIPLED

Actually the UK does NOT operate a fully privatised rail network!!!! Network Rail, itself is a not-for-profit government quango!!!

Network Rail was in private ownership but after a series of major disasters resulting in the loss of many lives, was taken back into public sector.

24 years old and even i have seen in the last 10 years how this town has gone backwards. Lots of people here are complaining but i know for a fact they have no intelligence as you all seem to vote Labour because your family votes Labour. last time i checked this country has not been in recession for the last 10 years. NO cinema for what 10 years? a s**thole of a train station where on your route into Bolton is a closed pub a bridge that is filthy then a **** shop then with all respect to the savvy army not something that attracts people (the new bus station will help) but GET RID of that skate park and those drugged up alcoholics that hang around Morrison's, then you see bolton's first shops and see pound, filthy take away, home bargains and cheap casino and that's all the way down till you get to an summers and game and all the way down you see. I'm 24 and did crap at school but know you need hotels, restaurants, smart shops, good architecture, and smart and diverse night life. In Manchester you walk down a back street and find a smart clothing store you never knew was there in Bolton you have to walk half way into town before you find a shop. would it not have made more sense to build retail space where the water place used to be instead of next to sainsbury's?. And i have no doubt that retail space rates are more than bury or chorley. i have read alot about this church wharf project but surely its on the wrong side of the town centre. Moving Bwfc away from Bolton has a part to play aswell but hey what do i know.

hatonfire wrote:
Pack says that planning policy has wrecked town after town. many other posters think that Cliff Morris is solely responsible for the lack of private investment into Bolton.

These and other ridiculous claims are clearly an orchestrated attempt by the local Tories to divert attention away from the incompetent management of the economy by the appalling, out of touch, arrogant government.
Yet the silly Con voters will carry on pretending that they are really better people than those awful working types who vote Labour.
Because that's what Tories do.

Mrs Morris, is that you ?

hatonfire wrote:
Pack says that planning policy has wrecked town after town. many other posters think that Cliff Morris is solely responsible for the lack of private investment into Bolton.

These and other ridiculous claims are clearly an orchestrated attempt by the local Tories to divert attention away from the incompetent management of the economy by the appalling, out of touch, arrogant government.
Yet the silly Con voters will carry on pretending that they are really better people than those awful working types who vote Labour.
Because that's what Tories do.

Mrs Morris, is that you ?

hatonfire wrote:

BWFC71 wrote:

hatonfire wrote:
For the information of the Tory supporters who think that privatizing every service is the answer please read the following regarding train fares.

UK - Woking (Surrey) to London, 22 miles, £3,268
FRANCE - Ballancourt-sur-Esso



nne to Paris, 24 miles, £924
GERMANY - Strasbourg to Berlin, 21 miles, £705
SPAIN - Collado-Villalba to Madrid, 22 miles, £653

http://www.dailymail



.co.uk/news/article-



2097089/Britains-rai



lways-expensive-comf



ortable-efficient-Eu



rope.html

Public Subsidy to Rail Networks as % GDP
Germany 0.497
France 0.330
UK 0.326
Spain 0.205

The level of public subsidy in France & the UK are virtually the same yet the season ticket price in France is less than a third of for a similar distance in England

Of the above, the UK alone operates a completely privatised rail network. Since privatisation the level of subsidy provided to UK train operators has TRIPLED

Actually the UK does NOT operate a fully privatised rail network!!!! Network Rail, itself is a not-for-profit government quango!!!

Network Rail was in private ownership but after a series of major disasters resulting in the loss of many lives, was taken back into public sector.

Therefore you are agreeing in what you originally stated was wrong! Thankyou.

BWFC71 wrote:

hatonfire wrote:
Nut asks 'How is it one man can ruin a town like Bolton'.
Answer, he can't.

All this Morris, Bolton bashing is a feeble attempt to divert the blame from the Con party who have slashed the money available for services in Bolton.

Ask the Minister responsible Eric (I ate all the pies) Pickles why he's cut our money.

Pickles, now if you're looking for a lardman, you'll find no finer example.

not quite..... the problems with Bolton Town Centre started just over 5/6 years ago - BEFORE the recession and the austerity measures.

Just before the Local elections the council froze the Council tax for 1 year and re-introduced weekly bin collections - I said at the time that this was a sweetener for votes and it would come back to bit them in the nose - I wasn't wrong!!!!

The Council had saved MILLIONS with an Icelandic Bank which crashed. teh counil, along with other councils in the Uk and mainland Europe took the Icelandic government to court to recoup the losses - what was never reported in the Bolton News was that the money was fullly recovered. Plus add that money to ALL the land they have sold off in the last 10 years - WHERE IS THE MONEY????

The question now arises is that they have millions and millions saved up somewhere and not using it - its gaining interest and they are continually selling land off and using the ConDems austerity measures for the cuts in front-line services and jobs? WHY??? There are other counils within a 50 mile radius who arre succeeding during these tough times, and had their government hand-outs slashed - so what is going wrong with Bolton???

It is a complete mis-management and all cloak and dagger to try to keep the towns citizens in the real dark and to manipulate their own manifesto in blaming everything on the current Government and its measures.

I am no Tory voter, nor Labour nor LibDems but what Bolton Council are doing is a complete disgrace and they should be ashamed of themselves - they are their for their voters and their voters needs not for their own profiteering greed!!!

Hatonfire, please re-read this post. I am not affiliated to any political party and I actually currently live overseas, but visit very regularly and read about what is happening teh causes and consequencies!!!

Totally agree with the couple of contributors saying BWFC leaving town was bad for trade. I would implore Mr Davies and Mr Gartside to consider moving the club back into Bolton. There are adequate places for a new stadium in the Tonge Valley or Raikes Lane areas. Selling The Reebok to housing or business use and building a new stadium in Bolton could be done at a profit thus cutting the clubs astronomical current debt. BWFC lost its soul moving to Horwich. Juventus recently built a new stadium after just 15 years at their last home because it didn't work out for them in many ways with an out of town stadium so they built a new one much nearer Turin city centre. BWFC COME BACK HOME!

Newcastle United are a prime example of a club whose ground is in the city centre and the knock on effect for pubs and shops is massive. Newcastle is booming.Wonder why! Wanderers would give the whole town a lift by relocating back in Bolton.It is not a pipe dream and could be done. It breaks my heart now walking down Manchester Road. All the pubs gone.

It would be great in BWFC fan groups could pressure the BWFC board into exploring relocation. The council could do their bit too by rejecting BWFC's new expansion-including new school -proposal at the Reebok. A lot of fans if you ask around do want out of Horwich and want BWFC to come back home to Bolton. Get organised and pressure the club and let's make it happen. BWFC belongs in Bolton not Horwich.

The Stadium should have been built on the site of the former power station in Halliwell or if it had to be near to the M61 motorway at the junction of Beaumont Road and Wigan Road but never at Horwich as it is too near Wigan.

Neither the team or the town are doing good right now,does Morris have anything to do with BWFC????????

While we are on about money and Icelandic banks does any one know what happened to the insurance money from the cafe fire in Moss Park Park? We have a wonderful park that is almost maintained by oap volunteers and yet there is nowhere you can buy a drink or sandwich. Maybe when the park has been run down enough our wonderful council will release the land for building houses!

I have to agree with most comments - Bolton Town CEntre is not what it used to be - you don't feel safe walking around in the early evening because it is so quiet and the area heading down Bradshawgate towards where the BMW garage with is awful and looks as if it has left to go wild. Bolton Council as an entire entity need to start looking at innovative ways of improving the centre instead of spending money on park railings and new builds such as Bolton One.

I agree that Bolton One is a waste of space.

The town centre is a complete mess, theres not much reason to go into town at all, day or night.
Only shops I ever go into - wilkinsons, boots. there's also a few unique businesses like Olympus, Aults, X records, otherwise I'm struggling....

Primark should never have been allowed to cut off the access to Bradshawgate - I've never set foot in Crompton place or whatever it;s called since then.

I can see this debate has strong feelings. I am not a labour voter and never will be unless the council has something for the working people.

I was born and bred in one of the roughest area's of Bolton too.

We have all played a part of Bolton down fall here, either standing by and watching the council strip Bolton of its pride or said nothing. The fact is the Bolton community does not pull together for a number of reasons.

The poor judgement of the council over the years have accelerated the problem.

If you contributed to the Bolton community who would get the benifit. I know the decades of families how had claimed for years and never worked for whatever excuse they can give. Strangely they all have a council house within the same street because they know every system going. That who the Bolton council supports and as the saying goes if you can not beat them join them and most of them have.

Hence why the town is at the bottom. If a football club has a massive impact on the town revenue then we are in trouble. Yes I am a BWFC fan too.

Let think of a few places were they do not have a decent football club. City of Bath, Oxford, Harrogate,Chester etc shall I go on.

We had it unless there is a complete mind set change and it would take a decade to change it. Starting with integration from all communities.

Lastly why is Bolton one of the highest places to insure. Humm what the saying where there is a claim there is blame. That says it all.

I am fortunate enough to be able to move out of Bolton and I will be doing. I have seen enough already in my first 6 months return.

If the council was proactive for the right people in the next few years, I would love to stay. I would love to be proud again about Bolton.

In fact the ideal location for a new stadium would be the soon to be vacant Moor Lane Bus Station. Its size could fit a 25,000 seater stadium and you can't get more central to town than there. Sell the Reebok and land around it,buy the bus station and build the stadium and probably cut the clubs debt by many millions in doing it.

The council gave in to Primark over shutting the walkway which was weak willed of them. As I said earlier the closing of that walkway killed all remaining retail on Bradshawgate. Bolton One was always going to fail as people who weren't students were never going to visit there. Closing the Water Place was disastrous and having no town centre cinema is also a huge reason people avoid town. Bolton is one of the largest towns not to have an indoor go karting track or skating rink. In Bolton-for our size of population-we have nothing facility wise.Pubs takeaways and pound shops that's Bolton!.

I do support the new proposed bus rail interchange however and it makes sense to lump the two together.

We left Bolton. And here is why.

1. Expensive property - If you want to live in a nice area, well Heaton was once nice, until properties became empty and rented out to undesirables. didn't feel very safe in the area at night.
2. Would prefer to shop in Manchester, a mix of chain stores and boutiques. Where you feel safe.
3. Would prefer to eat/drink in Manchester, again a mixture of eateries, pubs and bars. Streets are much cleaner, there is always police presence. Where you feel safe.
4. Would prefer to visit Heaton park or somewhere similar for a nice day out, again where you feel safe. Occasionally walked up to Smithills, shame!!!
5. Terrible roads.
6. Terrible trains.

What happened to

The rock gardens at Moss Bank
The nice Town Centre bars and restaurants
Community events
Taking pride in your home, your area, your town?

Bolton can be multicultural, as far as i know it always has been...it doesn't matter where you are from but you must learn to live together and have respect for others. This, unfortunately does not ring true in BOLTON.

It just isn't safe anymore and i wouldn't want to bring my children up there.

No matter who is voted in they don't have the funds or power to change it. It has gone too far.

The pound shops, the brokers, the betting shops all do well because people shop there.

You need to change the people before the area. It will be hard trying to get eveyone to return, almost impossible i would say!! It is such a shame, as Bolton was once a lovely home.

Reality50 wrote:
The council gave in to Primark over shutting the walkway which was weak willed of them. As I said earlier the closing of that walkway killed all remaining retail on Bradshawgate. Bolton One was always going to fail as people who weren't students were never going to visit there. Closing the Water Place was disastrous and having no town centre cinema is also a huge reason people avoid town. Bolton is one of the largest towns not to have an indoor go karting track or skating rink. In Bolton-for our size of population-we have nothing facility wise.Pubs takeaways and pound shops that's Bolton!.

Actually Bolton Council had no say, whatsoever with regards to teh closing of teh Bradshawgate entrance to the Arndale/Crompton Place. All they could do was give advice as to what would be more proficient but could not order anything as Crompton Place is owned by a Private Investor and not Bolton council.

My take o9n immigration is that I grew up in the 1970's and Deane Halliwell and to a lesser degree Great Lever had Asian immigration then but there were few racial tensions and generally people got on ok. The problem now is immigration has mushroomed out of control and the Eastern European added to the Muslim invasion has made social cohesion impossible. We aren't as badly off as the towns in East Lancashire -Blackburn,Accringto
n,Nelson-yet with regard to immigration but certainly it is worrying. I don't ever want to see white British Boltonians being a minority in this town. On current birthrate figures we are three generations from that happening. Worrying times....

But if you are talking about future birthrates.... correct me if I am wrong but any children born in Bolton would automatically become a British Boltonian and as such would not become a minority!

Some of you people moaning about Bolton town centre should live in other towns which are in a far worse state and also face up to the fact that shopping habits have changed and there is also a recession.

Any why anyone should want to leave Bolton and live a dump like Manchester is beyond me.

Meant to say crime ridden dump.

Wigan Trotter wrote:
Some of you people moaning about Bolton town centre should live in other towns which are in a far worse state and also face up to the fact that shopping habits have changed and there is also a recession.

Just to correct you we are currently NOT in a recession - according to the principaltites of a recession (which are the same across the whole globe and not just manifested by any of the UK government) a country has to have at least 2 consecutive quarters of a downturn - as it is the last 2 quarters in the UK have been positive!

I personally would say we are in a recession despite what experts say. I travel around the North West a lot and can truthfully say only Blackburn Rochdale and Burnley are in as bad a state as Bolton with regard to infastructure,trade and state of town centres. As for immigrants giving birth here yes that technically makes the offspring Boltonians but while that may officially be the case,I personally see the offspring as ethnics regardless. Most Muslims do not consider themselves British anyway and prioritise religion over nationality with regards to identity.

Spot on, wherever there is a high population of immigrants especially muslims there is a dysfunctional society, they very rarely work and only come here to bleed the system dry! If you don't believe me take a look at the third world grot holes they came from and make a comparison to places like Rochdale, Blackburn, Burnley etc. The damage done by years of labour rule is beyond repair, for every couple there is a minimum of 3-4 kids so in a generation that becomes at least 12-16! Scary I know but true, that's why the muslim population has risen 12% in the last decade, at next census that'll be a minimum 20%! Bolton is well & truly doomed.

Bert_Anchovy wrote:
This town will not improve until.... 1st and foremost, that fat lump of lard MUST be removed as "leader" of this so called coucil. 2nd. keith davies should be removed from his flowery named post. Would love to know what his salary and cv looks like. 3rd. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, Eric Pickles should use Bolton as a blueprint for showing how a town centres can be managed properly. I'm sure he could get together the people necessary to undertake this task. The time has come where the likes of the Lardy Morris's of this country should be swept away. The man himself was no more than a glorified wine waiter in his former life, some would say a director of s/hills coaching house. Perhaps that explains why the place stagnated and slipped into oblivion. Let's not forget his "expertise" within the NHS at Royal Bolton Trust, left leaving a total shambles of the finances. I could go on................ In the real world of business lardy morris would not 5 minutes.

I have siad time and time agian, people will still vote for Cliff Morris, if he was so bad he would have lost his seat years ago. Not many comments here from his ward.
Keith Davies does what he is employed to do, I think he does it well.
If Eric Pickles ever came to Bolton it would final nail in the coffin, he could'nt find his behind with both hands.
It the people of Bolton who are to blame, we elected the councillors, we have let things slip, we now need to take some responsibility and either change they way we vote or start to come into Bolton

You can't have it both ways.

Labour and in particular fat cliff are only in office because of the immigrant vote, numerous councillors gain votes by going canvassing on non English speaking people by taking other well known councillors with them to translate urdu, gujarati and punjabi on the doorstep, without this added vote labour would have been a long time gone!

Why mention race or religion in this topic. They have nothing to do with what teh Council have done over the last decade!!! Someone mentioned that Labour only gets the vote because they take interpreters with them - if thats the case then do you not think that teh other major parties also do the same!!!!! But apartg from that race and religion plays no part in this topic and should not be turned into yet another anti-Muslim thread!!! (btw they are not lazy-workshy layabout - both my local shops are owned by Muslims and work god **** hard - much harder than the usual layabout White English Bolton born good-for-nothings!!!
! they also act as a community help each other out and help out their neighbours - what do many white English people do????)

Have lived in Bolton all my life and was always proud to be Boltonian.The town had a lot of character . The future looks bleak and the town is bleak! Feel little affiliation with my hometown and am so alienated now , I wish I could move away. Little point explaining why. The other posts on this thread say it all.

BWFC71 wrote:
Why mention race or religion in this topic. They have nothing to do with what teh Council have done over the last decade!!! Someone mentioned that Labour only gets the vote because they take interpreters with them - if thats the case then do you not think that teh other major parties also do the same!!!!! But apartg from that race and religion plays no part in this topic and should not be turned into yet another anti-Muslim thread!!! (btw they are not lazy-workshy layabout - both my local shops are owned by Muslims and work god **** hard - much harder than the usual layabout White English Bolton born good-for-nothings!!!

! they also act as a community help each other out and help out their neighbours - what do many white English people do????)

Well said!

All the politicians from all parties in Bolton should be ashamed. They have all allowed the continual decline of industry with highly paid jobs to be replaced by minimum wage jobs, Beloitte Walmesley, Eaton, Metal Box, Bellhouse Hartwell, to name a few. If you remove so much money and associated jobs then decline of some sort is inevitable. The focus should be on retaining and attracting new high paid employment to Bolton.

Muslims do tend to work hard and I will give them that but they do not integrate. A Muslim idylllic world is far removed from the world I and most British people want. Has multiculturalism failed? Largely yes and certainly I would like the government to consider a blanket ban on mmigrants from Islamic countries. We are heading or a nightmare scenario as immigration completely submerges us in the future. It isn't scaremongering and the recent census results were a shock to many. Is there a link between downtrodden town centres,poor housing and overstretched welfare and NHS facilities with regard to immigration? Without doubt yes. We are now at immigration overload point and social cohesion is seriously undermined. I don't blame the immigrants for wanting a better life but I blame the fools in the three main political parties for forcing multiculturalism upon us.

BWFC71 wrote:

Reality50 wrote:
The council gave in to Primark over shutting the walkway which was weak willed of them. As I said earlier the closing of that walkway killed all remaining retail on Bradshawgate. Bolton One was always going to fail as people who weren't students were never going to visit there. Closing the Water Place was disastrous and having no town centre cinema is also a huge reason people avoid town. Bolton is one of the largest towns not to have an indoor go karting track or skating rink. In Bolton-for our size of population-we have nothing facility wise.Pubs takeaways and pound shops that's Bolton!.

Actually Bolton Council had no say, whatsoever with regards to teh closing of teh Bradshawgate entrance to the Arndale/Crompton Place. All they could do was give advice as to what would be more proficient but could not order anything as Crompton Place is owned by a Private Investor and not Bolton council.

I may be wrong but wouldn't a building project like this require planning permission? Just remind me who deals with planning?

The comment that Labour is only in power because of the immigrant vote is nonsense as the people who mostly employ them or rent properties out to them are mainly Tories.

And no matter who is in power, town centres will never be the same again because of the far more numerous ways of shopping than what there use to be.

I THINK BOLTON IS FINISHED

I see my last comment was removed..... OH the truth hurts big!

Labour largely rely on public sector workers and the immigrant vote. Even recent polls say 75% of immigrants and ethnic minorities vote Labour so it is indisputable. Labour under Blair and Brown deliberately had a weak immigration policy as they thought the more they let in then the more chance they could stay in power.