what a daft thing to say, he obviously hasn't seen us play often in the last two years.

Gudni was there in a less successful period from an achievement point of view though the crowds were bigger due primarily to the Reebok factor - as has happened with many clubs a new stadium brings in all kinds of extra support and when the novelty wears thin they disappear and many think up some excuse such as "the footballs not good",or "the Chairmans not spending enough money" and various others which we'll probably hear shortly.

Correct Chris. I dare say he wouldnt pay to watch us either along with thousands of others if hed seen us play. Add this to the fact that we are now managed by someone who the fans didnt want you dont need to be a brain surgeon to see why nobody is going to the Reebok.

I can see what he is trying to do as he had his best footballing years at this club and I think he is proud of the club....

BUT

for reasons stated above in ALL 3 posts. I think he does need to see the "fans" reasons for staying away!

So by not showing up you are protesting against the style of play under previous managers? Seems logical and i can fully understand how that will help the team escape relegation... NOT!

Its about time you started to support the club and the team and cheer them on to act as the 12th man, not berate and moan just because they arent playing football thats as attractive to watch as Arsenal.

Here's a big secret.
(Proper)Fans want entertaining football.

gg wrote:
Gudni was there in a less successful period from an achievement point of view though the crowds were bigger due primarily to the Reebok factor - as has happened with many clubs a new stadium brings in all kinds of extra support and when the novelty wears thin they disappear and many think up some excuse such as "the footballs not good",or "the Chairmans not spending enough money" and various others which we'll probably hear shortly.

think you have this one well wrong, thier is alot of genuine bread and butter support that has stopped coming. from the burnden days!

where we went wrong, when our sucsess peaked, the club decided to try and attract different support, i.e familys!

they did this using fireworks, flag wavers, music, aggresive stewarding policies and most of all a band including (drums, triangles, bongos).

All these factors drove away alot of the tradittional working class male support who stopped coming last season before we reached the pinnacle of our recent sucsess. No we have lost big sam and are doing poorly the different support they attracted with the new schemes have turned out to be fickle and have shown them selves not to have the passion that the tradittional support of the working class man.

a gamble that didnt pay off in my opinion and to get the lads back on the terraces i think it would take a no nonsence back to basics overhaul of the matchday experience!

Get rid of the crappy music,there was nothing wrong with "the wanderer"! lower ticket prices for "league" games aswell as cup games, and dont rip fans off re: beer and pies etc? simple, not rocket science! But i dont think that the wanderer, cheap ale and pies, and lower ticket prices are in the clubs latest business model?!!!! whenever you look at a problem, you have to elevate the issues which are percieved to be creating that problem. BWFC! Take all the things away that currently give the average working class chap a multitude of excuses to "not" go!

Do we really have a town full of people who are craving some sort of personal success that much,but are lacking any in there own lives, they have to attach themselves to a more powerful, more successful club than the one in there own town?
If all the people who were born and bred in Bolton supported there home town team, instead of a bigger "more succesful" club, we would have to build another stadium to cope with the demand!!
Boltonians! are you really that shallow that you have to cling onto another towns apron strings just so you can associate yourselves with some element of Glory!!?????

they did this using fireworks, flag wavers, music, aggresive stewarding policies and most of all a band including (drums, triangles, bongos).

Completely agree pal.

Very easy for ex players to have a go at the fans. Where was he when we were being dumped out of FA cup and Carling cup by playing weakened teams? Abysmal home performances in UEFA cup. Watching paint dry more enjoyable than sitting through some matches this season, and anyone really looking forward to Fulham match?

We have always had entertainers at Burnden and the Reebok. Now we have a manager who plays 1 up front with 9 defenders behind him. Lets here what you think about that Gudni?

Jordan wrote:
So by not showing up you are protesting against the style of play under previous managers? Seems logical and i can fully understand how that will help the team escape relegation... NOT!

Its about time you started to support the club and the team and cheer them on to act as the 12th man, not berate and moan just because they arent playing football thats as attractive to watch as Arsenal.

I don't think fans are 'protesting' about a style our play, rather they are not being entertained (in fact being bored to death in some games) and therefore prefer to stay away. Of course I agree that we should support our team through thick and thin but some people understandably don't want to pay to watch dull, unentertaining, defensive football.

horwichwhite - bob-on my friend.

When I go into Bolton I'm amazed and disappointed at the number of people wearing L/pool, Man U and even Citeh shirts (for Christ's sake!)

Unless they actually go and watch these teams (which I bet hardly any of them do) it's just plain shameful, particularly when on their doorstep is a club who helped found the Football League, has a very rich history, and a very unique identity.

Good posts,Birch, horwichwhite and King Eric.All hit points with which it's possible to agree. I have one minor amendment to suggest re King E's realism: 'proper fans want entertaining, successful football.' The success can be relative or sporadic or just on the horizon..but it has to be there.

The issue overall though is surely more complex and wide-ranging. What's wrong with attracting families, single women,pensioners or even casual out of towners, eg the hordes of Japanes who came to watch Nakata? Personally I find the whole experience better for its diversity. (I'd criticise the club for actually letting go on some of those family-oriented things mentioned).

Also,if Birch's argument is on its own valid, it begs the question re how 'working male' attendances fell to 6,000/7,000 at Burnden. We forget this! As recently as Neal and Rioch the pinnacle of ambition was to fill Burnden- and it seemed an impossible dream.

For my part I do not know whether new stadium novelty or location is a factor or the England team's fortunes or our contempt for FA and now UEFA cups ( that's abig one for me) or whatever.It's probably all these things and it will be cyclical.

I just know how excited and proud I've been from time to time, eg when we walloped Spurs in the cup at Burnden, after the last game at the Burnden-the absolute cracker v Charlton, or more recently during a couple of the home games v Arsenal. And I know how tedious most of the Reebok games have been for home supporters for the last twelve months - with the notable exception of the Arsenal FA Cup replay last year.I want us to attack, not recklessly but deliberately-- that's my definiton of what I want to see and indeed of the 'relatively successful'amendment above.I'll keep going because I know no better but my patience is sore tempted by such as the recent games v Aris & Derby.

King Eric wrote:
Here's a big secret. (Proper)Fans want entertaining football.

The theatre's the place for entertainment.
Proper fans understand football is inherently entertaining.
What people like you don't understand is that real football people wouldn't go if they thought the Manager was briefing the team to "go out and entertain".
We want to see "winning football" or failing that a team endeavouring to win.Boltons tradition is one of industrious hard working teams reflecting the industrial culture of the area.There's nothing better to the Bolton supporters than seeing a hard working aggressive Bolton team turning over one of the big three.Bolton supporters understand that if you try to play free flowing open football at premiership level with our resources you'll be relegated.
You should turn up at half time to see the Chinese juggler - that's entertainment.
In answer to birch - point taken, though there are still far more season ticket holders now than there were at Burnden and I personally know many supporters who never went to Burnden but bought season tickets for the new stadium and have since stopped going.

gg wrote:

King Eric wrote: Here's a big secret. (Proper)Fans want entertaining football.

The theatre's the place for entertainment. Proper fans understand football is inherently entertaining. What people like you don't understand is that real football people wouldn't go if they thought the Manager was briefing the team to "go out and entertain". We want to see "winning football" or failing that a team endeavouring to win.Boltons tradition is one of industrious hard working teams reflecting the industrial culture of the area.There's nothing better to the Bolton supporters than seeing a hard working aggressive Bolton team turning over one of the big three.Bolton supporters understand that if you try to play free flowing open football at premiership level with our resources you'll be relegated. You should turn up at half time to see the Chinese juggler - that's entertainment. In answer to birch - point taken, though there are still far more season ticket holders now than there were at Burnden and I personally know many supporters who never went to Burnden but bought season tickets for the new stadium and have since stopped going.

Good post.

We've had some really really bad times as Bolton fans, and this isn't even close to them.

We're in the top league with a decent chance of staying there.

Gudni is right, we need the fans, REAL fans know this and WANT to back the club as much as possible.

However, too many have "excuses" lined up for why they're not going.

If you don't go fine, but we don't want to hear how "you've been a lifelong fan" but now aren't going.

horwichwhite wrote:
Get rid of the crappy music,there was nothing wrong with "the wanderer"! lower ticket prices for "league" games aswell as cup games, and dont rip fans off re: beer and pies etc? simple, not rocket science! But i dont think that the wanderer, cheap ale and pies, and lower ticket prices are in the clubs latest business model?!!!! whenever you look at a problem, you have to elevate the issues which are percieved to be creating that problem. BWFC! Take all the things away that currently give the average working class chap a multitude of excuses to "not" go!

Unfortunately none of this will work.

BOLTON PEOPLE HAVE AN EXCUSE FOR EVERYTHING.

THEY WANT EVERYTHING ON THE CHEAP. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MULTITUDE OF ONE POUND SHOPS IN BOLTON TOWN CENTRE. IT'S LIKE FARNWORTH TOWN CENTRE 10 YEARS AGO. A COMPLETE AND UTTER SH T HOLE.

NOBODY HAS ANY ASPIRATIONS. THE ONLY WORDS BOLON PEOPLE KNOW ARE "I CAN'T BE ARSED"


wELL BE ARSED OR ELSE BWFC WILL BE RELEGATED. IT'S YOUR CLUB NOT ANBODY ELSES.

CAN'T YOU SEE WE ARE A CLUB IN TRANSITION. IF WE STAY UP THIS YEAR WE WILL BE BETTER FOR IT NEXT.

THE REASON WE ARE NOT A BIG CLUB IS BECAUSE OF BOLTON PEOPLE. THE TOWN HAS 265000 PEOPLE LIVING IN IT SO COULD BE A REALLY BIG CLUB BUT, ONLY 15 THOUSAND GO TO THE MATCHES.

PULL YOUR FINGER OUT SO CALLED BWFC FANS!

YOUR SUPPORT IS REALLY NEEDED. WE NEED TO BRING THE SPIRIT BACK TO OUR CLUB.

GET BEHIND THEM AND WE WILL SHOOT UP THAT TABLE.

Chris Manning, Gotham City PD wrote:
what a daft thing to say, he obviously hasn't seen us play often in the last two years.

I think you will find he has!!

I see him at every London away game! He made his wife and children sit through the West Ham game!!

Chris wrote:

Chris Manning, Gotham City PD wrote: what a daft thing to say, he obviously hasn't seen us play often in the last two years.

I think you will find he has!! I see him at every London away game! He made his wife and children sit through the West Ham game!!

Thats because they didn't tidy their room so he had to punish them.

There have been some great posts on this topic and people seems to be giving some thought to what they are saying which is terrific given some of the drivel that we've had to wade through recently.

Having followed the Wanderers from overseas for the last two years I don't think that it's a problem associated with Bolton. It seems to be the whole Premier League which is at fault. The whole league is now essentially the same as the Scottish League was in the 80's and 90's ie only a small number of clubs are ever going to win it. Looking at the PL I reckon we're now down to three clubs and will be for the forseeable future. Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea are now so strong that even in the cup competitions they can afford to field weakened teams, make it to the finals and then come out with all guns blazing. The rest of us are playing for places.

Similarly, you only have to look at the number of foreigners in the league and in teams to realise that people are likely to lose interest. I admit that we have had some fantastic foreign players who I thought we'd never ever see at Bolton eg Jay Jay, Campo, Hierro, Youri etc but we've also had some complete and utter dross as postings on other topics have suggested. Feel free to flame, but I'd much rather watch a team of journeymen British and Irish players whose career's I know about rather than cheapo Johnny Foreigner who I know nothing about until he signs eg (fill in name of relevant player).

I was chatting to a mate who is a Coventry fan who is also now an expat and he said that he just sees football as a television programme which occasionally entertains. Having thought about it I think he's spot on. I worry about the game I have loved for the last 30+ years and what the future holds for the future. It saddens me to say it, but in terms of interest the other three leagues are far more interesting because there are no outstanding teams in each division. Never mind Big Phil.... I think Rupert is more to blame.

Ok folks shoot me down... I'm off to bed!

People compare todays attendences with the attendences of the early 90's but the fact is everyone was getting poor attendences then, e.g newcastle where getting well bellow 20,000! since the game found its spark again everyone started going. i feel that we could continually get a full house with the right blend of price and matchday experience. we where nearly their a couple of years ago but i think the club got greedy.

we need a big no nonsence marketing approach to turn this around

i truly believe we could do this with a proper

This is the BN reigniting a long running debate. Most of you so far are correct, put all your arguments together for the lack of fans and you can write the answer on a side of A4. What im saying is there are many reasons, excuses call them what you will why people don’t go to the Reebok.

In my opinion and I am also questioning whether I will be a season ticket holder next season, simply because there is no incentive to be, I just think that so many people have fallen out with football.

Its not the working mans game anymore, money has ruined the game as a spectacle, the amount players get paid is ridiculous, the dishonesty of many players on the pitch coupled with the FA, UEFA, FIFAs’ reluctance to do anything about it also puts people off wanting to watch cheats at work.

The lack of 3pm Saturday kick offs, whilst this has been ongoing for several years now, has taken away a traditional element of the game.

I’m not bothered either way about fireworks, cheerleaders, bands, flag wavers etc I can take em or leave em; pies and pints are expensive no matter which football ground you go to, im more concerned what happens to BWFC on the pitch, but we don’t entertain and never really in the past few years have we entertained – why – because of money!!

RIP Football

Some excellent posts and rallying calls.They make a wavering me want to drive up the M6 to see the Fulham game- and I'll bring two, maybe three others and we might not even make kick off, given when I can set off. I might even do it for Gudni,in fond memory of the day he dumped Beckham on his backside at Old Trafford or other lesser highlights.

I know I'll hate a 3-5-1, 0-1 dull defeat and be depressed for days but of course I hope to drive back on air, in joy, relief and exultation after a 3-0 + win, especially if I see a BWFC goal anything like as good as Nolan's last v Blackburn.

So, what is a 'real fan' then, all? One who attends every game home ( and away), has 40/50/60 years of attendance on the clock and an encylopaedic knowledge of all the games? Born in the town of Bolton? Was a child in Bolton? Had a BWFC fan as a parent? Lives in the town? Lives away from the town and travels? Spends £50-£100 for every game attended.Buys lots of replica kit? Appreciates good, entertaining football? Is an ex player/coach/referee
/administrator at a good amateur, semi-pro or pro level and 'knows' the game? An alpha male 20-50 with a flat cap? One who watches a set amount of games on Sky, Setanta or terrestrial chanenels and can speak fluently about every prominent league and player in the world? Sinks 3+ pints before, during and after every game? Carries the scars of epic aggro from the 70s? Takes the trouble to make posts here and elsewhere? Other??

You will see here agreement with all of you!At root though it's a plea for 'entertaining, relatively successful football'and almost an apology for being some sort of 'fan'.

PS.Brilliant posts whilst I was away Tassie, Birch and Beer- all engaging with the complexity and I so agree with Birch re the big marketing approach. If only BWFC's top management would read and go for it!

I'm old enough to remember when a working man planned his weekend around the Wanderers, and a night match at Burnden set the pulse racing.

Todays youngsters dont think like we used to do. My friend took his 2 young nephews to that Greek UEFA match and the Sheffield cup match. Wild horses wouldnt drag them 2 back to the Reebok.

You can shout at people, bully them, shame them if they dont attend, bit in this century, people will not form a long term relationship with a club like many of us have done. Ive been going nearly 60 years now, but never thought I would say it, if the football on offer doesnt get better, I dont think Ill bother next season.

Andy L wrote:
Good posts,Birch, horwichwhite and King Eric.All hit points with which it's possible to agree. I have one minor amendment to suggest re King E's realism: 'proper fans want entertaining, successful football.' The success can be relative or sporadic or just on the horizon..but it has to be there. The issue overall though is surely more complex and wide-ranging. What's wrong with attracting families, single women,pensioners or even casual out of towners, eg the hordes of Japanes who came to watch Nakata? Personally I find the whole experience better for its diversity. (I'd criticise the club for actually letting go on some of those family-oriented things mentioned). Also,if Birch's argument is on its own valid, it begs the question re how 'working male' attendances fell to 6,000/7,000 at Burnden. We forget this! As recently as Neal and Rioch the pinnacle of ambition was to fill Burnden- and it seemed an impossible dream. For my part I do not know whether new stadium novelty or location is a factor or the England team's fortunes or our contempt for FA and now UEFA cups ( that's abig one for me) or whatever.It's probably all these things and it will be cyclical. I just know how excited and proud I've been from time to time, eg when we walloped Spurs in the cup at Burnden, after the last game at the Burnden-the absolute cracker v Charlton, or more recently during a couple of the home games v Arsenal. And I know how tedious most of the Reebok games have been for home supporters for the last twelve months - with the notable exception of the Arsenal FA Cup replay last year.I want us to attack, not recklessly but deliberately-- that's my definiton of what I want to see and indeed of the 'relatively successful'amendment above.I'll keep going because I know no better but my patience is sore tempted by such as the recent games v Aris & Derby.

Good points. I am also getting fed up with our attitude to cups, I remember going to Arsenal 12 months ago and thinking, this is what it used to be like, we were all really up for the game because for once the club had stated it wanted to do well in the FA Cup. What a refreshing change it made and we had 2 cracking games, but that seems a lifetime ago and now we're back to "the cups dont matter". Its a crying shame and the club dont appreciate what effect its having on the sole of BWFC. I will disagree slightly on 1 thing, I enjoyed the Derby game precisely because it was what we wanted - 2 teams going for it, both wanting to win, we dont expect them to play like Arsenal but I found it quite gripping, could we score, would they nick 1, we had loads of chances and tried to attack - was that not precisely what we have been asking for? Ditto the City game, we played really well, I would settle for losing every away game 4-2 if that was how we would play, rather than the turn off of the Newcastle, Everton games.

Adriano sounds like a huge gamble. Anyone know what his Sao Paolo form has been like?

From Wikepedia: "....Since signing the new deal, however, Adriano's future at Inter has suffered due to poor performances in the past two seasons, fueled by questions and speculation regarding his work ethic, which was called into question when he was twice caught partying at nightclubs during the '06-07 campaign. Brazilian coach Dunga did not call Adriano up for a friendly against Ecuador on October 10, 2006, and called for him to "change his behavior" and "focus on football". On February 18, 2007, Adriano skipped a team practice due to effects from a lengthy celebration of his birthday the night before, which led to Inter manager Roberto Mancini benching him for the team's Champions League match against Valencia CF and subsequent Serie A fixture against Calcio Catania."

Don't care what anyone says - you can't get people to attend regularly unless the costs come down (thats across the board rather than just Wanderers). Match day experience is horribly sterile, football on offer is just dross and of course the fact that you have no hope of winning anything (unless you are one of 'The Big Four') makes it a difficult sell for £30 a pop. Don't think taking away the ability to pay at the turn stile helps either. Combined with disillusionment towards the likes of Darkside and his bog roll flogging mate I believe we have a fairly potent cauldron of displeased fans. Getting old hands like Gudni to play recruiting sergeant isn't good enough!

Tassie Tiger wrote:
There have been some great posts on this topic and people seems to be giving some thought to what they are saying which is terrific given some of the drivel that we've had to wade through recently. Having followed the Wanderers from overseas for the last two years I don't think that it's a problem associated with Bolton. It seems to be the whole Premier League which is at fault. The whole league is now essentially the same as the Scottish League was in the 80's and 90's ie only a small number of clubs are ever going to win it. Looking at the PL I reckon we're now down to three clubs and will be for the forseeable future. Arsenal, Man U and Chelsea are now so strong that even in the cup competitions they can afford to field weakened teams, make it to the finals and then come out with all guns blazing. The rest of us are playing for places. Similarly, you only have to look at the number of foreigners in the league and in teams to realise that people are likely to lose interest. I admit that we have had some fantastic foreign players who I thought we'd never ever see at Bolton eg Jay Jay, Campo, Hierro, Youri etc but we've also had some complete and utter dross as postings on other topics have suggested. Feel free to flame, but I'd much rather watch a team of journeymen British and Irish players whose career's I know about rather than cheapo Johnny Foreigner who I know nothing about until he signs eg (fill in name of relevant player). I was chatting to a mate who is a Coventry fan who is also now an expat and he said that he just sees football as a television programme which occasionally entertains. Having thought about it I think he's spot on. I worry about the game I have loved for the last 30+ years and what the future holds for the future. It saddens me to say it, but in terms of interest the other three leagues are far more interesting because there are no outstanding teams in each division. Never mind Big Phil.... I think Rupert is more to blame. Ok folks shoot me down... I'm off to bed!

hit the nail on the head. its not just a decline in support for the club in bolton, but a nationwide thing. only a few clubs can win anything, so the lure of supporting man u is too much and many kids in bolton support them. what is the point really in the rest of the clubs in todays football climate? we may aswell just have a 3 team league and cup competitions
however gotta agree on the entertainment part too. weve gotta realise we arent gonna win anything, so why cant we just be entertained when we turn up? id much rather lose a game 4-3 than watch another performance like the newcastle one

No wonder they cant fill the ground...its obvious

stadium outside the heart of bolton (almost in chorley)

stadium has no atmosphere at all...depressing souless pile of concrete

costs a fortune to watch a very mediocre team every 2 weeks

helped, like many other new stadia, to rip the heart out of football as the majority know it

no real consistency in kick off times....customers of any business need to form habits

despair at the way money is being (mis) managed

fat cat mercenary foreign signings who couldnt find the beehve roundabout if you stood themoutsdie tescos

a bumbling oaf of a chairman who is more bothered about his own profile

a team who can run their cods off to beat one of the best teams in the world one week then flop to sunderland a couple later

the bolton public arent fickle..they just careful where they waste their hard earned.....i wouoldnt watch this s hower of s***e if they were playing in my back garden..never mind cough up £30 quid or whatever to sit in a morgue on a cold jan sunday lunchtime..whenits on sky anyway!

work it out..its as if someone is systematically trying to kill football!

a big reason attendences are down this year is partly due to the season ticket pricing and policy. this was the first season ticket i didnt get one.

i sat down and added up the pros and advantages of buying a season ticket v paying as you go. A season ticket at the beggining of august was £466 esl. i.e £24.52/game.

option 2 was to buy a membership and get £5 off/game. this would put ticket prices between £20-£30 per game. financial thier was little or no advantage of having the season ticket. you dont even need it for priority on tickets anymore as we never sell out, even for man utd away.

because people went for the pay as you go option as soon as the football got dire people stopped coming. if they had season tickets good or bad they would have been there due to the fact of the season ticket.

we need to realise this, stay up, put together a big no nonsence marketing strategy in the summer then put a real financial incentive behind the purchase of a season ticket. i think this would get the numbers back and we wouldnt make less money due to the larger paying support.


it worked for wigan and blackburn, why not us!

JUST LIKE TO ADD, THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST THREADS THIER HAS BEEN ON HERE!

LETS HOPE THE ARGUMENTATIVE TYPES DONT COME ON AND START DRAGGING IT INTO A SLANGING MATCH

I bet Gudni has been reading the Independent!!!!


Premier League crowds this season are on course to average more than 36,000 fans per match - the highest average gate per game in the top division since 1951.

It costs too much money now to watch your team. That applies to all clubs not just ours.

dudes the answer is simple, we should have kept burnden park it was superb, a bit of refurb and jobs a good en! even normid would have been knocked down to extend the stand and a bit of parking!. the reebok is in toff land full of pompus twits and too much family orienttated marketing.

Some fantastic posts above and I agree with many of the sentiments. Below I have pasted part of a post I put on this site after the blackburn game, which now seems right to re post.

My feelings are best summed up by my comments below.

"Since 1987 when I returned to Bolton after living in the Midlands I have missed 2 home games and one of those was Wimbledon in the League Cup. I don't go away anymore as I think football is a rip off.

I know Burnden Park was a mess, but boy did it have more atmosphere than the Reebok which is now just a marketing opportunity for our board to fleece us 'customers' the minute we get near the ground. I look back on the away trips to Scarborough, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Wrexham etc as great days when the fans actually enjoyed the match day experience.

I can't think of a match over the last few years when I have woken up with excitement on the day of the game. It is mostly a turn up and see if we win thing.

I can't see us having players like Super John, Gudni, Mixu and Coyle in the near future. They weren't the best, but gave every ounce and played as a team. They were in the game because they enjoyed playing and thought by getting better, they could progress and if it was with us that was great.

My greatest game watching the Whites was at Anfield. That was a team and an occasion, helped albeit by the fact I worked in Liverpool then.

I am falling out of love with a game I used to look forward to and am sick of seeing players earning megabucks not able to perform to their ability.

Football has been ruined by money and unfortunately it is taking our club with it".

Perhaps the best people to ask are the ones who no longer come to the Reebok.

After all, they are ones who have made the decision and there must have been a reason for it.

birch wrote:
a big reason attendences are down this year is partly due to the season ticket pricing and policy. this was the first season ticket i didnt get one. i sat down and added up the pros and advantages of buying a season ticket v paying as you go. A season ticket at the beggining of august was £466 esl. i.e £24.52/game. option 2 was to buy a membership and get £5 off/game. this would put ticket prices between £20-£30 per game. financial thier was little or no advantage of having the season ticket. you dont even need it for priority on tickets anymore as we never sell out, even for man utd away. because people went for the pay as you go option as soon as the football got dire people stopped coming. if they had season tickets good or bad they would have been there due to the fact of the season ticket. we need to realise this, stay up, put together a big no nonsence marketing strategy in the summer then put a real financial incentive behind the purchase of a season ticket. i think this would get the numbers back and we wouldnt make less money due to the larger paying support. it worked for wigan and blackburn, why not us!

In what way did it work for Wigan and Blackburn? Aren't their crowds down on last year? My season ticket was around £20 per game (under £400)

Just stopped for a bite of lunch and logged on here. This is really what this website must be about if it is to have any real point. Thoughtful and incisive, talking not just about the problems at Bolton but those affecting football in general.

I too fear for the game at present. Those of you who know me are aware I've been watching Bolton since 1964, home and away. I go to all the reserve and youth home games and my wife will tell you that we have organised our lives these last 23 years around the BWFC fixture list. It is slightly worrying therefore that I also feel as though my love affair with the game is beginning to cool a little for all the reasons referred to by the earlier contributors. Do I see things improving, though? Well, actually no, not yet. I reckon that clubs are totally isolated at present from the disillusionment of the average fan by the ludicrous amounts of money being pumped into the game by Sky and Setanta. Will this last, well yes it will in the short term but the huge gap between the haves and have nots will widen still further and eventually Sky etc will take a long hard look at the product, decide it is as stale as showing repeats of Desperate Housewives and start to put the squeeze on their cash injection. Only then will a return to something approaching normality be even a remote possibility. Indeed, I would like to see the so-called Big Four take themselves off into a European League and leave the rest of us to compete on something approaching a level playing field. Likely to happen....who knows?

Again, all good points. Bowton Lad is surely accurate re the habit point. We are probably all the same-whether its going to football, playing sports, keeping fit or a myriad other loyalties or customs.

We do whatever it is religiously and then one day, for whatever reason, disenchantment, other commitment,cost we stop. We may not even be able to pinpoint the moment we stopped. But we don't restart for ages and ages, if ever because the habit is broken. I remember long ago asking my father why he had stopped in the mid 6os and he couldn't answer. He just had. Hang on in there, Embankment Bob!

Yes, Birch, a big marketing policy focused on season tickets. I agree wholeheartedly.
In day to day terms people are put off on any given week by £30 or whatever costs and of course big business has moved football away from its traditional ' working'class base-whatever that means anymore. But there are easily 20-25000 potential fans, not necessarily historic or current who can afford the season ticket costs and many more who could afford massively reduced season ticket costs.

One obvious ploy for all would be to include cup tickets in the price of a season ticket and then respect the cups.

In terms of segregation and differentiated matchday experience or facilities, another might be to reduce quite radically the costs of seats with limited view or in certain parts of the ground, e.g North and South Lower.At Burnden there was often a particular association with parts of the ground , e.g the Lever End or Burnden Terrace and before that, at least for me, the embankment at the front or under the scoreboard.Nothing like that in the Reebok. No stand cultures to speak of, just an amorphous mass.

In fact the only time any real camaraderie is found is at away games and not just behind a goal or somesuch.The atmosphere away at the Arsenal cup game, as has already been remarked, was fantastic and surprise, surprise we outplayed them!

When we moved we for the most part transferred like for like geographically.OK the BEN North Upper is a family stand? But what other segments of the ground other than boxes are marketed and to whom? No wonder one commentator decribes it as a 'morgue'.If this really good thread demonstrates anything it is that the market is segmented and needs a big, thought through and differentiated approach.

Meanwhile, let's just give it a real go against Fulham. Can't agree with you, Jon re Derby game. Had you said Birmingham 2nd half or Blackburn first half as examples of interesting attacking play I'd have been with you. But this may just serve to show BWFC that actually it doesn't take that much to please, attract and retain people like us. We are the easy ones fo the marketers and sales people

Inter Milan have offered Adriano to Premiership-outfit Bolton Wanderers in the hope that a sale would finance a deal to sign Ronaldinho

Any one know anything about this?

They told me at the beggining of August it was £466 esl, you must have bought early and got an extra 10% discount. I was relocating in July and didnt have the funds then. (why you have to buy early to get a decent price is beyod me, no other local clubs do this)

wigan and blackburn have increased both thier season ticket numbers and average attendence. we constantly had a much larger average than both wigan and blackburn, we now are nearly 3000 on ave behind bburn and only get around 1500 more than wigan. This was due to season tickets being £250 all summer long at bburn and wigan.

i feel something like this 30% discount would probably equate to around a 20-25% increase in attndance. meaning financial we would break even when you take into consideration matchday spending.

i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere.

but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation.

i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments.

obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley!

i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

Gloucster White wrote:
Inter Milan have offered Adriano to Premiership-outfit Bolton Wanderers in the hope that a sale would finance a deal to sign Ronaldinho Any one know anything about this?

Sure you haven't missed of donnell at the end of the name. LOL

No haven't heard anything. Thought he was on loan in Brazil and is there not a FIFA rule stopping players having 3 clubs in a year.

we wounldnt be able to sign him until the summer as he's on loan to some brasilian club til then. would be like winning the lottery if we managed to sign him and he rediscoverd his old form and he's only 25. but we need to stay in this league first and get someone in now !!!!!!

ad_bwfc wrote:
i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere. but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation. i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments. obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley! i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

your right the pubs are a big problem. Someone on here, i forget who came up with a brillint idea of opening the exhibition centre before the game as a supporters club, cheap food and drink with big screens and seats, it would easy hold 2,000 fans pre game, create a bit of atmosphere and wont cost the club a penny. You could use the same staff in thier before the game that do half time inside the ground.

i think this is genious and a shore fire winner if executed properly, be profitable too.

Steve Battersby wrote:
Just stopped for a bite of lunch and logged on here. This is really what this website must be about if it is to have any real point. Thoughtful and incisive, talking not just about the problems at Bolton but those affecting football in general.

I too fear for the game at present. Those of you who know me are aware I've been watching Bolton since 1964, home and away. I go to all the reserve and youth home games and my wife will tell you that we have organised our lives these last 23 years around the BWFC fixture list. It is slightly worrying therefore that I also feel as though my love affair with the game is beginning to cool a little for all the reasons referred to by the earlier contributors. Do I see things improving, though? Well, actually no, not yet. I reckon that clubs are totally isolated at present from the disillusionment of the average fan by the ludicrous amounts of money being pumped into the game by Sky and Setanta. Will this last, well yes it will in the short term but the huge gap between the haves and have nots will widen still further and eventually Sky etc will take a long hard look at the product, decide it is as stale as showing repeats of Desperate Housewives and start to put the squeeze on their cash injection. Only then will a return to something approaching normality be even a remote possibility. Indeed, I would like to see the so-called Big Four take themselves off into a European League and leave the rest of us to compete on something approaching a level playing field. Likely to happen....who knows?

I totally empathise.Your wife must be a saint.The looming future vision is almost Orwellian..and for 2084 probably as accurate as his for 1984? Maybe we will all have eye implants with 25 digital retinae beaming Shanghai Rovers v Mankind United

Yes, if the Big Four took themselves off to a European League we could all watch on TV, would it really matter, especially if Sky, Setanta, BBC et al. massively funded the cups and they entered those. If the TV companies and millionaire venture capitalists do pull back on the stale product,something will happen and the Premier League will implode.

We have already seen Man Utd opt out of the FA Cup once and that is a precedent others will surely follow, when and if it suits them or their foreign sybdicated owners.

Can't get to many games these days as I'm living in Dublin. Persuaded a mate to let me watch Newcastle v Bolton on setanta last week, he loves the premiership. Respectable result, but typically awful to watch as a footballing spectacle. Aside from maybe 10 minutes at the start. I was embarrassed to be honest, and I don't think the hospitality will be extended for the next Bolton game. Football is massive in Dublin, but even despite two prominent Irish players nobody is running out to buy Bolton shirts. Even for someone as enthusiastic as I've been, watching Bolton is becoming a bit like going to church - more of an obligation/duty than something to look forward to. With Anelka gone, Diouf away and Campo's passing going inexplicably haywire there's little to get excited about these days, aside from the odd Nolan volley which certainly cleared a few cobwebs from the throat and lungs :o).

Megson has probably done the sensible thing since taking over, he's reverted back to Sam's old percentage tactics in an effort to survive - ugly but effective and proven. I suppose (given where LSL left us) survival alone would be a significant achievement this season, but I'm hoping that there'll be something to more look forward to in the future. It just isn't very enjoyable anymore, and I can understand why people don't want to go. At least when we played like this before we were challenging for something. Now, even the UEFA which we bust a gut to get into, and should be trying to win (why not?) seems to be a run-out for the reserves which nobody is too bothered about.

Gartside - you missed a big and rare chance to make this 'sea change' by letting Anelka go for half of his market value, I doubt we can pull in a half decent striker from somebody's reserves at this stage. OK we have a couple of decent players and a few quid, for the price of losing our goal scoring machine. Is anybody else wondering where the goals are going to come from and how we'll stop leaking them? 2 wingers and a full back doesn't really fit the bill..

I can't really add too much to the excellent posts made here. Its unusual to read a thread where Bolton fans aren't verbally abusing each other. As well as some acute observations there are some good suggestions too though there are some forces that our outside fans immediate control such as kick off times, and the bond between players and fans which has largely been lost. My gripe is that despite some great posts here that the club hierarchy is unwilling or interested in listening to the fans in an attempt to do anything about it. The suggestion of a new marketing campaign alone won't be enough to stop fans being alienated by the perception that they are nothing more than turnstile fodder. I think fans need to be consulted in a real and consistent way rather than a few focus groups here and there. A club membership that affects decisions made by the club as is the model in some places in Spain and Germany or at least a fan representative on the board. My impression is that the BWSA is a bit too deferential for my liking. It saddens me to read that other fans like me are falling or have fallen out of love with the game whilst we have a chairman who arrogantly thinks he knows best without thinking about asking his 'customers'.

birch wrote:

ad_bwfc wrote: i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere. but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation. i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments. obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley! i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

your right the pubs are a big problem. Someone on here, i forget who came up with a brillint idea of opening the exhibition centre before the game as a supporters club, cheap food and drink with big screens and seats, it would easy hold 2,000 fans pre game, create a bit of atmosphere and wont cost the club a penny. You could use the same staff in thier before the game that do half time inside the ground. i think this is genious and a shore fire winner if executed properly, be profitable too.

I don't remember recall see the earlier post about opening the exhibition centre BUT THAT IS A BRILLIANT IDEA . Like you say Birch, it'd be profitable too. Less police, more turnover, better atmosphere and more of a social occasion liked it used to be in the pubs around Burnden.

COME ON BWFC, there's money to be made here! (Appealing to our club's baser instincts).

Only one Andy Walker wrote:

horwichwhite wrote: Get rid of the crappy music,there was nothing wrong with "the wanderer"! lower ticket prices for "league" games aswell as cup games, and dont rip fans off re: beer and pies etc? simple, not rocket science! But i dont think that the wanderer, cheap ale and pies, and lower ticket prices are in the clubs latest business model?!!!! whenever you look at a problem, you have to elevate the issues which are percieved to be creating that problem. BWFC! Take all the things away that currently give the average working class chap a multitude of excuses to "not" go!

Unfortunately none of this will work. BOLTON PEOPLE HAVE AN EXCUSE FOR EVERYTHING. THEY WANT EVERYTHING ON THE CHEAP. HAVE YOU SEEN THE MULTITUDE OF ONE POUND SHOPS IN BOLTON TOWN CENTRE. IT'S LIKE FARNWORTH TOWN CENTRE 10 YEARS AGO. A COMPLETE AND UTTER SH T HOLE. NOBODY HAS ANY ASPIRATIONS. THE ONLY WORDS BOLON PEOPLE KNOW ARE "I CAN'T BE ARSED" wELL BE ARSED OR ELSE BWFC WILL BE RELEGATED. IT'S YOUR CLUB NOT ANBODY ELSES. CAN'T YOU SEE WE ARE A CLUB IN TRANSITION. IF WE STAY UP THIS YEAR WE WILL BE BETTER FOR IT NEXT. THE REASON WE ARE NOT A BIG CLUB IS BECAUSE OF BOLTON PEOPLE. THE TOWN HAS 265000 PEOPLE LIVING IN IT SO COULD BE A REALLY BIG CLUB BUT, ONLY 15 THOUSAND GO TO THE MATCHES. PULL YOUR FINGER OUT SO CALLED BWFC FANS! YOUR SUPPORT IS REALLY NEEDED. WE NEED TO BRING THE SPIRIT BACK TO OUR CLUB. GET BEHIND THEM AND WE WILL SHOOT UP THAT TABLE.

Not doubting your sentiments and passion mate but 18000 from a population of 260,000 compares favourably with Everton and Liverpool's combined attendance from a population of over 5 times more.

The stat of 1 in 14 Bolton people (incl people less inclined to be at the game such as babies, pensioners) being in the Reebok on a Saturday afternoon doesn't lead me think Bolton folk "CAN'T BE ARSED".

It's been better obviously, but I thought it worth stating to add some balance to your comments. Otherwise, good post.

Zinedine McCann wrote:

birch wrote:

ad_bwfc wrote: i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere. but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation. i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments. obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley! i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

your right the pubs are a big problem. Someone on here, i forget who came up with a brillint idea of opening the exhibition centre before the game as a supporters club, cheap food and drink with big screens and seats, it would easy hold 2,000 fans pre game, create a bit of atmosphere and wont cost the club a penny. You could use the same staff in thier before the game that do half time inside the ground. i think this is genious and a shore fire winner if executed properly, be profitable too.

I don't remember recall see the earlier post about opening the exhibition centre BUT THAT IS A BRILLIANT IDEA . Like you say Birch, it'd be profitable too. Less police, more turnover, better atmosphere and more of a social occasion liked it used to be in the pubs around Burnden. COME ON BWFC, there's money to be made here! (Appealing to our club's baser instincts).

i think this idea is a must, i think this would be a bit of a spark which is exactly what we need to get the fans together for this vital run in!

how can we get this across to the powers that be?

Went to the Bury/Bradford city game on Tuesday with a couple of friends to see how the other half live.
God what an experience.
Cheap prices,plenty of goals, good atmosphere and brilliant support from both sets of fans behind the goals who were allowed to express their feelings.Reminded me of what our away support used to like at Rotherham etc.
Proper pubs within 2 minutes of ground with both sets of supporters having a laugh and then a 10 minute walk back to Town after the game for another drink before catching bus back to Bolton.
This is what it used to be like!!
Still gonna renew mi season ticket at Bolton but would wholeheartedly recommend the matchday experience at Bury.I`ll be going again ,wish it could be like this at the Reebok!!

birch wrote:

ad_bwfc wrote: i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere. but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation. i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments. obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley! i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

your right the pubs are a big problem. Someone on here, i forget who came up with a brillint idea of opening the exhibition centre before the game as a supporters club, cheap food and drink with big screens and seats, it would easy hold 2,000 fans pre game, create a bit of atmosphere and wont cost the club a penny. You could use the same staff in thier before the game that do half time inside the ground. i think this is genious and a shore fire winner if executed properly, be profitable too.

Birch, great idea. It seems such an obvious idea that its bound to not happen! We used to go in the British Aerospace club pre-match and it was always a good gathering place, if it was our club we could make it even better with as you say large screens etc. Obviously if this idea did go through the club would ruin it by charging outrageous prices and managing to alienate the fans as usual. Does anyone know what the Premier Suite is currently used for on match days? The 'pubs' around the ground are a waste of space, the club needs to do something to generate some interest.

birch wrote:

Zinedine McCann wrote:

birch wrote:

ad_bwfc wrote: i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere. but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation. i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments. obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley! i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

your right the pubs are a big problem. Someone on here, i forget who came up with a brillint idea of opening the exhibition centre before the game as a supporters club, cheap food and drink with big screens and seats, it would easy hold 2,000 fans pre game, create a bit of atmosphere and wont cost the club a penny. You could use the same staff in thier before the game that do half time inside the ground. i think this is genious and a shore fire winner if executed properly, be profitable too.

I don't remember recall see the earlier post about opening the exhibition centre BUT THAT IS A BRILLIANT IDEA . Like you say Birch, it'd be profitable too. Less police, more turnover, better atmosphere and more of a social occasion liked it used to be in the pubs around Burnden. COME ON BWFC, there's money to be made here! (Appealing to our club's baser instincts).

i think this idea is a must, i think this would be a bit of a spark which is exactly what we need to get the fans together for this vital run in! how can we get this across to the powers that be?

A Platinum Suite for the impoverished!

We may not spend as much but we outnumber the P/S gang 50-1! It's only money that a number of us already spend in the pubs around the ground anyway.

Am I being naive to think the club should appoint a fans advocate? With the disillusionment expressed so well here we need someone through which our concerns, grievances and ideas could be channelled. My choice would be a respected former player like Mcginly, Gudni or whoever. The club employ full time marketing people whose sole ideas seem to be to send out pathetic mailshots every so often. A completely new approach is needed to win back the missing fans. Have I just written a load of pie in the sky?

paul wrote:
Am I being naive to think the club should appoint a fans advocate? With the disillusionment expressed so well here we need someone through which our concerns, grievances and ideas could be channelled. My choice would be a respected former player like Mcginly, Gudni or whoever. The club employ full time marketing people whose sole ideas seem to be to send out pathetic mailshots every so often. A completely new approach is needed to win back the missing fans. Have I just written a load of pie in the sky?

But surely you'd want a FAN doing that NOT an ex player.

And isn't that precisely what the supporters association should be doing?

Zinedine McCann wrote:

birch wrote:

Zinedine McCann wrote:

birch wrote:

ad_bwfc wrote: i still get the buzz about watching the wanderers like i used to get as a 9 year old going to burden with my dad, im still only 22 now so im prob to young to remember what the qualities of burden like you will all know, i definitly remember the atmosphere. but for some reason i remember it being alot different than the reebok, i know the obvious differences like it was actually in town! dont get me wrong i love the reebok stadium but its something about the retail park etc i cant help thinking it was designed more for profits and families- which im not saying is a bad thing just an observation. i live down south and get to as many games as i can, all away games down this end and most home games at the reebok, stuggle to make the weeknight games because of work committments. obv a few of my mates are west ham chelsea fans etc and when bolton have played there they have taken me out with there fans before the games, to the bars etc.. and there seems to be so many more bars! like an actual buzz about the game, it just seemed geered towards the actuall fans a bit more. when i went to the reebok last i think i was drinking in a bowling alley! i think it needs a bit more excitment pre match to get the crowds back. like a few bars where wanderers fans get 40% of lager and ale on matchdays etc. im not an alcoholic, far from it! but sometimes it just seems so negative before a match and i cant put my finger on it

your right the pubs are a big problem. Someone on here, i forget who came up with a brillint idea of opening the exhibition centre before the game as a supporters club, cheap food and drink with big screens and seats, it would easy hold 2,000 fans pre game, create a bit of atmosphere and wont cost the club a penny. You could use the same staff in thier before the game that do half time inside the ground. i think this is genious and a shore fire winner if executed properly, be profitable too.

I don't remember recall see the earlier post about opening the exhibition centre BUT THAT IS A BRILLIANT IDEA . Like you say Birch, it'd be profitable too. Less police, more turnover, better atmosphere and more of a social occasion liked it used to be in the pubs around Burnden. COME ON BWFC, there's money to be made here! (Appealing to our club's baser instincts).

i think this idea is a must, i think this would be a bit of a spark which is exactly what we need to get the fans together for this vital run in! how can we get this across to the powers that be?

A Platinum Suite for the impoverished! We may not spend as much but we outnumber the P/S gang 50-1! It's only money that a number of us already spend in the pubs around the ground anyway.

i said do this 18 months ago i even sent a letter to the club about the proposal but guess what no reply,cheap ale cheap food big screens,and lots of music sure fire winner,but again our club does not know what we want why?
cos you never bloody consult us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do people keep dragging in the boxes when making a comment? We all know what youre on about- just makes it harder to read and understand.Totally ruins any message you are trying to get over.

Jon, A respected former player would have the trust of both sides. Trust from the club not to suggest totally stupid ideas and trust from the fans by their sheer charisma. The supporters club as has been said before seem too cosy with the board for most fans liking. Where is the BWSA now?

paul wrote:
Jon, A respected former player would have the trust of both sides. Trust from the club not to suggest totally stupid ideas and trust from the fans by their sheer charisma. The supporters club as has been said before seem too cosy with the board for most fans liking. Where is the BWSA now?

Paul, seeing as people are saying that Gudni is "acting as the boards puppet" I doubt what you're saying is true.

I think you make a decent point, but the trouble is the club do listen to fans but often fans don't listen to the club.

For example, the club have been told by the police that they are NOT allowed a supporters bar on matchdays, but yet people still keep banging on about one. The club can't do anything about it.

Nobody is giving the club credit for giving tickets for a fiver for the Madrid game,and introducing a signing stand (again at the fans request) so to be fair the club aren't exactly ignoring the fans left right and centre!

just sent this below, lets see if it gets a responce, i hope so even if this is to say the police will not allow it, they allow the hotel though so i cant see why not!

Dear Phil/Eddie

As you will probably know there has been a large amount of disillusionment recently with Bolton fans, not just with on the pitch activity but in general the whole match day experience. There have been some good discussion on forums such as the Bolton evening news; I think it may be worth you having a read (look under the Gudni Bergson piece)

http://www.boltoneve
ningnews.co.uk/wande
rers/
One fantastic idea that has cropped up is to open up the platinum suite/exhibition centre before the match. We have been discussing this and feel due to the lack of pubs around the ground (unlike burnden) this would add some much needed pre match excitement and togetherness. The centre could be opened at 12pm for a 3pm kick off. With cheap beer, food and big screens we feel this would attract many people to the ground earlier. You could use staffs that work the kiosks at half time so there would be minimal extra cost in opening this facility. It would be like a supporters club, which I think, would do very well. Not only will this generate some much needed cash but also be a bit of a spark to re unite fans who have more recently found themselves in two camps. This added atmosphere could help us in our fight for survival. I hope if this reaches you would warrant it with a response, as this is the feeling of many if you check the above forum.
Yours Faithfully

Jon, there may well be valid reasons for the clubs inertia in some areas but the communication with the fans is non-existent. This leaves us feeling ignored and angry. I for one have never heard the club say a supporters bar is out of the question. That is precisely the type of issue a fans advocate should take up. Have they really asked the police or do they just want to get us into the ground to spend money at the overpriced kiosks that they have franchised out to De Vere? We never get to know the truth so we end up assuming the worst. I dont know the answer but better and more honest communication is a start. Its strange how they have now set up a singing area for the Madrid game yet they have said for years that the police wont have it, the season ticket holders cant do it, blah blah. Suddenly they have done it, were these all pathetic excuses and the club just couldnt be bothered? We need someone respected to scrutinise these decisions for us because too many fans just dont believe a word the club says anymore.

birch wrote:
just sent this below, lets see if it gets a responce, i hope so even if this is to say the police will not allow it, they allow the hotel though so i cant see why not! Dear Phil/Eddie As you will probably know there has been a large amount of disillusionment recently with Bolton fans, not just with on the pitch activity but in general the whole match day experience. There have been some good discussion on forums such as the Bolton evening news; I think it may be worth you having a read (look under the Gudni Bergson piece) http://www.boltoneve ningnews.co.uk/wande rers/ One fantastic idea that has cropped up is to open up the platinum suite/exhibition centre before the match. We have been discussing this and feel due to the lack of pubs around the ground (unlike burnden) this would add some much needed pre match excitement and togetherness. The centre could be opened at 12pm for a 3pm kick off. With cheap beer, food and big screens we feel this would attract many people to the ground earlier. You could use staffs that work the kiosks at half time so there would be minimal extra cost in opening this facility. It would be like a supporters club, which I think, would do very well. Not only will this generate some much needed cash but also be a bit of a spark to re unite fans who have more recently found themselves in two camps. This added atmosphere could help us in our fight for survival. I hope if this reaches you would warrant it with a response, as this is the feeling of many if you check the above forum. Yours Faithfully

its a good idea, but i really doubt anyone at bwfc will be interested in it. the fans have become customers in the eyes of the board and i think they just want us in and out as quickly as possible. if there is any response it will be to say that "after advice from GM police, we believe that this will result in an increase in matchday problems, and be a backwards step for football"

i dont think the fact that we had fireworks banners or a very naff band playing,have impacted on dropping attendances is it not simply that we dont have the fan base??weve been lomg enough at the Reebok now and season tickets are down to 14 thousand allegedly.I think that is what weve got 14 thousand die hard fans the rest are made up of floating fans,the ones that constantly air there views about not going because this is crap that is crap fall into the latter,the rest of us for who BWFC really are in our blood keep turning up keep hoping things will turn but if they dont we wont or cant stop going,because that is what supporting your football team is all about is it not.we have days out that most other fans only dream aboutWembley Cardiff,Promotions,P
isa/Munich and shortly Madrid,i for one and hope i speak for many others when i consider life not to be that bad
as a Bolton fan

I am sitting here reading these posts with admiration for the way genuine football fans have clearly articulated their thoughts about Bolton , and football in general.

Cap, doffed.

Owdleverender is right, the more you think about it this is one bad season in how many? But crowds are down because of many factors but mainly that the football on offer is as poor as ever but without the wins that used to paper over the cracks. Its the floating fans that need to be convinced to come back, most of them can't be classified as glory supporters because if they really wanted glory then the North West has some far bigger clubs than us. Often its these supporters who's opinions are more realistic, they will not blindly turn up just for the sake of it and many cannot afford to financially or socially commit themselves to the Wanderers every week or every season. This doesn't mean they don't care about the club. Love the idea of a social space allowing larger numbers of fans to gather pre match and drink. If any of the board do read this messageboard, they'll have dropped the decanter upon reading that idea, total antithesis of modern football corporate hospitality. Any directors left from the Burnden days will have flashbacks of sitting in the executive suite, watching a 2,000 strong, **** up, angry mob mingle around their jags.

Martin Duggan wrote:

amosc99 wrote:
Martin Duggan wrote: If, for example another chairman was appointed and Gartside was kicked out, would we suddenly have more money to spend on transfers??? I somehow doubt it.
Ex Thornleigh, arn't you??????? There would be more chance of more money - but we need fresh ideas, fresh approach. It's not just about transfer money its about the whole experience for the corporates AND fans alike - where at moment it is all corporate!
I am ex Thornleigh, who are you??? Its a difficult one. We have tried lower prices but that hasnt worked. To be honest the attendances have been going down over the last 2 yrs. Maybe the novelty has just worn off. I,for one, will still be going like I have been for the last 30 odd yrs come rain, shine or terrible football.
The clue is in the screen name!!!!

When I'm back in the UK I attend as many games as possible - when back home in Netherlands I watch every game via satellite and my favourite bar. In last 3 years I have not missed 1 game whether being at the match or watching it via satellite!!!!

Lowering prices only works so many times but we need fresh ideas to bring the fans back, to help promote Bolton as a modern club, not just in the UK but also abroad (drawing with Munich should have been a catalyst for promoting the club but what has the club done - nothing!!!! apart from release a DVD via the club shop (watched it 6 times now - along with the DVD were we beat ManUtd at Reebok!!!!).

Through outside promotion, celebrating our wins etc and with fresh re-invigorating ideas, fans would come back, the atmosphere would be ecletic as it used to be at Burnden - BUT Gartside does not have that magic. His term, I feel has come to an end and does need to be replaced - but again there are many people who would relish the challenge whether they are from inside the club or outside - naming names, or suggesting people does nothing but there are people willing to do the job - I could guarantee it!!!!

amosc99, why make it so complicated. Good football equals more fans, winning football equals more fans. Combine the two and you get full houses even with inflated ticket prices. Rip the fans off by fielding weakened sides and serving up **** when they do reduce ticket prices and you get disillusionment and empty seats.

Positive promotion does work for any product - and be honest BWFC nowadays is a product of a business.

At this moment in time the image/brand has been waned due to bad football, mis-management of LSL and controversial ****-ups by many at Bolton.

The product now needs to be re-packaged so that sales can pick up (or in the case of Bolton bring the fans back) but that requires 90pct imagination and hope and 10pct money. If an innovative idea works - it brings back the fans and is cheap then everyone is laughing. More money being thrown at trying to bring fans back normally back-fire and then we could end up with more debt and even less fans or (worse case scenario) in administration.

Admittedly good football needs to be played - but the company also needs to play on the good football we have played such as Munich, Man U at home etc...

The past few seasons, the club has blundered by picking weak cup teams. These games with cheaper prices are good for people to give us a try. Backfired so badly by producing rubbish games, they probably ended up turning more people off.

Am I wrong or do we never win when we rest half the squad? I mean the next league game. And dont get me started on sunshine mid season breaks. They should be up a big hill in the Lakes, covered in mud. Get some fitness in to the lazy bunch.

Ben, you are surely right that good, winning football is a way, probably the way to bring fans back and I argued this earlier save for the rolled forward use of King Eric's word 'entertaining'instea
d of good.

The problem though is, as I see it, that 6/8 top positions are occupied by multi-millionaire, foreign venture capitalists and more will follow.W. Ham are only just outside, QPR will be in the top 8 in two years and Arsenal will be bought out no doubt and ditto Spurs.Home owned clubs evn backed by wealthy businessman cannot compete. The Jack Walker model was for the 90s.

There is absolutely no way that for 16 games a year and probably 24 next year that BWFC can be other than an occasionally winning team unless sold for profit abroad. off abroad- a hateful prospect.

So against that scenario another way has to be found and it is complex.I'm with amosc on that and also those others who have contributed today.

It seems to me that we need to make games 'good' by being more attacking and entertaining, irrespective of the division we are in.And yes, amosc, there is a need of a change of direction at Board level.

Imaginative marketing and better communication with the community stakeholders(i.e. us) is a must.They should conceptualise the fans as shareholders and work accordingly, whilst linking imaginatively with community and local authority agencies -which to some extent they do, but not enough.

And if the only way we can fill the ground with good, winning football is to do so in the Championship, so be it. If, however, we can or do hang on in the Premier League, then the debate should be about the quality of what we see.For me prioritising the cups is paramount. We just might build some momentum with a good cup run and we need to have success celebrated and glamourised.amosc's points re the Munich, Man Utd sucesses appeal to me.

PS: We are in parallel. Bob,not for the first time this week! I'd add also that the effect of weakened cup teams is to diminish the brand and the appetite of fans for weeks to come if not years and not just a week.If we hadn't thrown those games at Spurs ( league cup ) and Luton ,wasn't it, in Millwall's year we might even have had an FA cup final. I appreciate that you have probably had one already and maybe two in 53 and 58. I started watching in 59 and I want one!But I well remember the excitement of Freddie Hill's league cup winner against Liverpool as I was right behind the goal.

PS: We are in parallel. Bob,not for the first time this week! I'd add also that the effect of weakened cup teams is to diminish the brand and the appetite of fans for weeks to come if not years and not just a week.If we hadn't thrown those games at Spurs ( league cup ) and Luton ,wasn't it, in Millwall's year we might even have had an FA cup final. I appreciate that you have probably had one already and maybe two in 53 and 58. I started watching in 59 and I want one!But I well remember the excitement of Freddie Hill's league cup winner against Liverpool as I was right behind the goal.

Andy, we had some very good teams in the 50s and 60s. You perhaps came in towards the end of Nat's career, players like Parry, Stevens and Holden.
I idolised Freddie Hill, bit hunchbacked, but what a dribbler and creative player. Wyn Davies, Franny Lee, Gary Jones and of course Johnny B who was at the Reebok recently. Whatmore and Taylor- wish we had them now.

It was in Millwalls year- didnt we blow it home to Tranmere that year? Next matches would have been Luton and Milwall. I really dont like this disrespect for cups, especially FA cup. Not as if we do anything after they have all had the day off. Usually signals a long losing run. Theres nothing like winning matches for confidence.

I am really fed up we are not still in the cup. Disgraceful that team he picked against Sheffield. We might disagree on this Andy, but if we lose on Tuesday, that should be Megson,s last match for me. I dont think he,s improved this team at all, and is scared to have a go at teams.

With regards to Paul's idea about an ex-player acting as a fans representative, I think that it is a good idea. It has worked for Everton over the last few years with Graeme Sharp as their spokesperson so why not us.

As for the views on attendances, match atmosphere, match experience, re location from Burnden, I cannot add what hasnt already been said.

The Wanderers are suffering from the general malaise affecting most of top level English football. Andy is correct that Premier League football means winning games on a regular basis will not be possible and the fear factor of relegation means the football played by most teams is negetive, defensive and very drab. But some teams do attempt to play a bit more than the Wanderers, especially at home. And why not use the cup games to be a bit more expansive? As for marketing no thanks but communication has to be greatly improved.

Miss the 'Churchills ' experience before the match!!! Middlebrook Tavern nearly made up for it but now there is nothing.Bus in,boredom and then bus home again.Not much to look forward to now.Clock ticking and the transfer window is creaking shut and locking out our survival chances.

I remember all those players fondly, Bob.Dougie Holden and Brian Birch were inspirational wingers.Birch in particular always seemed to score when I was there. I only saw Nat once or twice, alas but I recall Ray Parry's left foot and Denis Stevens is etched in my memory too. rather later I can still visualise Garry Jones' ability to cross from the left byline..would that it were a feature of today.

No, I don't agree re Megson and the next game being his last, but as you know I share your frustration with the negative tactics we adopt.But we have to get from a to b. Little Sam moved too fast and without the right players. If though we are still doing this in a year's time I'll be with you! What though I will be is mightily fed up if I drive all the way up to see a dull 0-0 or 0-1 without a Bolton shot on goal..and I fear it!

Crossing the ball in from the byline Andy, it'll never take off!!! :-)

The Wanderers are suffering from the general malaise affecting most of top level English football. I think this is true, what people of got to realise the younger supporters of today have different ideas with what to do with there weekends, i agree with alot of what people are saying but i beleive one of the main reasons that people are staying away is down to the money aspect of the game, take the average working man who takes his son to a game, earning say £15k a year, he is fed up of paying upto £100 to attend a game (inc Tickets, Transport, food, programme etc) he as work hard all week then spends £100 for what? to watch 11 blokes pull the Bolton shirt for 90 mins, most cant be arsed to run round like the mcginley's coyle's mixu's etc put the effort in and play as a team, yet they are picking upwards of £20k-40k A WEEK, so you can see why they are losing interest in the game when the guy is earning more in a week than he does in a year cant be arse why should, its not about being fickle its about being practical, the biggest problem in football is SKY, yes they are pumping billions into football but it is killing the game, like some one put earlier the premier league is turning in the scottish league, there are only three teams who as the money to compete, all the other teams are doing is trying to stay in the premier league to secure the extra money. I will always be Bolton through & through but these days you have to priorities what you spend you money on and football at the moment isnt entertaining, it is a struggle for the average punter to stay in the game, especially when you see the likes of Ar*ehole Cole lovely wife at home but because he as the millions in the bank thinks he is a cut above the everyone else he can screw anyone, look at his departure from Arsenal to Chelsea that was all down to money £55k a week from Arsenal or £90k a week from Chelsea, no loyality it is all down to money so i think you should understand when fans stay away, come on you whites you can stay up 5 days left to the deadline, what happened to the fantastic signing on friday one of the guys on here predicted, we need a couple of strikers.

how many times do the fans have too be kicked in the teeth until they realise,that until gartside and his merry mis management men are gone and we get someone in who does not keep selling there prize assets anelka/haim/ without getting a replacement first or waiting too end of season before selling then things are going too get worse before they get better.
.
as for a striker anelka is unreplaceable and would have kept us up,so dont be surprised throught desperation we get someone like heskey or someone like him who will fill the stadium with fans eager and enthuiastic knocking at the door too see him not ,same story fans sold down the river again
come on you whites