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VOTE: Was Sam Allardyce right to criticise Wanderers . . ?
7:54am Thursday 1st May 2008
Comments (53)Yes, says David Magilton
SAM Allardyce has every right to take a swipe at the club he loves.
To witness Wanderers' fall from grace has been heartbreaking for everyone concerned and doubly so for the man who built it up in the first place.
You can question the motives as to why Allardyce, pictured, walked out on Wanderers with two games of last season remaining, but after seeing the way the club have fallen from grace this season, it must have been very difficult for him to have kept his own council for so long.
The timing of his remarks is a different matter, however, and with Wanderers facing probably the most important game of the season against Sunderland on Saturday, could hardly have come at a more inopportune moment.
But he was asked the question on the radio and in typical Big Sam fashion answered it honestly. Maybe he has a hidden agenda or was hoping his comments would, in some perverse way, be a spur to the team.
After all, Big Sam knows many of the players well and may have used his outburst to fire up the players.
They can either react in a positive way or could simply ignore his rantings as just that.
But after the way his side had progressed in the eight years he was at the Reebok helm, it must have been disappointing, to say the least, for him to watch Wanderers languishing at the bottom of the Premiership with the Championship calling.
They are still not out of the woods and we all hope that their reformation of the last three games will continue, but it should all have been so different.
Allardyce's comments appear to have overlooked his side's poor form in the second half of last season, but there was still a sound basis of a squad to build upon in the summer.
The quality of some of those signings left a lot to be desired and undoubtedly played a major factor in why Bolton have struggled, but it was compounded by the fact that Allardyce himself was quite happy to poach several of his highly-rated backroom staff when he left for Newcastle.
Allardyce lives in the town and, although born in Dudley, is as Boltonian as they come.
It appears everybody else has a view on Wanderers' plight, as witnessed by the more than vociferous deluge of comments on our website and in the paper over the past few weeks, so why shouldn't Big Sam not be entitled to his twopennyworth.
No, says Neil Bonnar
SAM Allardyce says he is upset to see Wanderers in trouble, and nobody could blame him.
He spent eight years working for the club during which time he took them from the Championship to the top eight of the Premiership in each of the last four seasons.
He laid into his old club big style on Monday saying they have brought about a "demise" after he left them in "great shape".
He criticised what he called the "pulling apart" of the team he left, and accused his successors of trying to fix something that wasn't broken.
All heavy stuff.
As a football fan as well as a newspaper man I've been waiting to hear what he has to say about events at Wanderers since he left.
I've got no problems with what he said - everyone is entitled to their opinion, and Allardyce more than anyone on this issue.
What I do have a problem with is the timing of it.
A lot of the current team played under Allardyce, some were bought by him and others were brought through the ranks by him.
These players have been brought up to take notice of what he says, and probably still do.
I hope that this week they ignore it because the timing of the comments couldn't be worse as regards trying to keep Wanderers in the Premiership.
Wanderers have got enough problems at the moment without the distraction of Allardyce slaughtering them.
They are one point above the relegation zone with two games to play. Their last match is at Chelsea who haven't lost at home for four years and may need to win to have a chance of pipping Manchester United to the title.
All things being equal we can write off any chance of Wanderers getting anything but a cup of tea and a shower at Stamford Bridge.
Which means they will almost certainly have to win at home to Sunderland on Saturday to stay in the Premiership.
The rest of the country hates Wanderers and would dance on their grave if they went down.
Everyone in the Bolton camp is battling manfully to try and survive, with seven points and two capacity away followings in the last three games.
They need all the help they can in their preparation for the biggest game since the last relegation fight five years ago.
The man who led them to safety on that occasion has done nothing to help them achieve it this year by expressing his opinions now.
Your Say Yourtheboltonnews
steve, bolton says...
2:22pm Thu 1 May 08
I travel extensively around the country and discuss football regularly with many supporters and can honestly say I have never got the impression that Bolton are even mildly disliked,in fact many people are very pleased that a club as small as Bolton were able to compete with the big clubs whilst others struggled.
davel, n wales says...
2:29pm Thu 1 May 08
jp cotton, heywood says...
2:38pm Thu 1 May 08
Gareth Jones, Australia says...
3:11pm Thu 1 May 08
jp cotton wrote:As usual, Wanderers supporters are more well-informed than The Bolton News journalists, who are more interested in creating a sensationalist, advertising-selling beat-up, than reporting real football news. These Allardyce stories are nothing more an obvious distraction from the disastrous and incompetent Bolton leadership of Phil Gartside and Gary Megson.
Most people outside the club seem to have respect for us.I work with mainly united fans and they seem to have respect for Bolton. Sams comments are fair enough he did a wonderful job for the club and tells the truth.
Andy W, Cumbria says...
3:18pm Thu 1 May 08
Some of you are too easily impressed with his own self publicity. We could easily have gone under as a club without Davies and Gartside. Their leadership and Sam's management skills led us to Europe twice and top 8 on four successive years. Some of you are forgetting who has steadied our club and gave Sam full rein to run the team as he wanted (probably the same people who wanted BSA sacked for our boring brand of football).
apple, says...
3:57pm Thu 1 May 08
Gareth Jones, Australia says...
4:02pm Thu 1 May 08
Andy W wrote:You cannot deny the empirical evidence. Look where we were 12 months' ago, and where we are right now. Allardyce was the catalyst for everything at Bolton. Mr Davis is just a businessman, not a benefactor; Mr Gartside is just an account, and MR Megson is . . . well, Mr Megson has no charisma, and he cannot plan, or manage a football team. Are you a BN journalist?
Big Sam did nothing by himself. He was part of a successful team that included Phil Gartside, Eddie Davies and the rest. Sam at Newcastle proved that without a patient and honest board behind him, he wouldn't last long. This is the man who took apart our backroom staff when he left, bought Cid and a lot of other dumb buys and left us in relegation form. Some of you are too easily impressed with his own self publicity. We could easily have gone under as a club without Davies and Gartside. Their leadership and Sam's management skills led us to Europe twice and top 8 on four successive years. Some of you are forgetting who has steadied our club and gave Sam full rein to run the team as he wanted (probably the same people who wanted BSA sacked for our boring brand of football).
Andy W, Cumbria says...
4:15pm Thu 1 May 08
Megson's not perfect - far from it. But he's who we've got and it looks likely that he'll keep us in the Premier League - something that did not seem possible when he took over.
Allardyce was NOT the catalyst. That belongs to Gartside. It was he who took the risk and appointed Big Sam. A catalyst is an chemical that causes other chemicals to react. gartside was here first. Therefore is anyone should be given that title it belongs to Phil Gartside.
Without him and Davies, there would now be no Bolton Wanderers. Don't forget that.
Now that's what I call empirical evidence!
deano, Bolton says...
4:28pm Thu 1 May 08
apple, says...
4:32pm Thu 1 May 08
Victor, Horwich says...
4:48pm Thu 1 May 08
Gareth Jones, Australia says...
5:04pm Thu 1 May 08
Re: Mr Gartside, as catalyst
Andy, I do respect your right to hold that point of view, but I suspect a high majority of individuals posting on this site would disagree with you, including me.
Mr Megson has had plenty of time to prove himself at Bolton Wanderers, and quite frankly, Mr Gartside has made two disastrous appointments that have the potential to destroy our Premier League status. This managerial duo is a disaster! When Mr Davis has sold the club, its supporters will still be here to pick up the pieces.
Moreover, I am very glad to see that you can read a dictionary and write in decent English prose. And I'm sure you wouldn't sink so low to be a BN journalist?
Steve Battersby, Oldham says...
5:21pm Thu 1 May 08
Above, we have an equally well reasoned and logical posting from Andy W that clearly not everyone agrees with. I myself partly support his theory but do feel Allardyce would have emerged at some club to do what he did at The Reebok and therefore Gartside's contribution, though critical, was not necessarily pivotal to events in the past 8 years.
To then read 'Deano's' one line response which is not only utter nonsense but also insulting in its content has convinced me that to indulge this site further is a waste of my valuable time.
From hereon in I will send letters to the paper and take my chance on having them printed in the hard copy, where censorship thankfully still exists. Deano and others like him are fully entitled to their views but they should be expressed in a civil manner and show respect to those who try and think their way through issues.
Let's all get to The Reebok on Saturday and help try and keep us in The Premier League. So this is au revoir but maybe not goodbye.
Gatecrasher, Canada says...
5:27pm Thu 1 May 08
Save your comments till the season is over Mr Allardyce,. If anyone cares to listen!
Julie Moores, Bolton says...
5:31pm Thu 1 May 08
He had ambition, they didnt.
Pedro, Bolton says...
5:58pm Thu 1 May 08
THE CLUB has released its team news for tonight's Manchester Senior Cup game against Stockport County at Moss Lane, Altrincham.
Squad: Brocklehurst, McDonald, Burns, Sheridan, Carlisle, Gbemie, Mooy, Sissons, Obadeyi, Wolze, Ward, Sinclair, Harsanyi, Michail, Smith.
Wanderers only need to draw the game to see them played Manchester United in the final.
john readyhoff, LosAngeles says...
6:28pm Thu 1 May 08
JR
Pedro, Bolton says...
6:30pm Thu 1 May 08
Remember the home records of Bayern and Red Star? Records are there to be broken!!! And what better day to break Chelsea's with 3000 Wanderers supporters at the Bridge to witness it!!
Come on you Whites!!!
FILL THE REEBOK ON SATURDAY AND TO THE SS (SILENT SUPPORTERS) - DROWN OUT THOSE MACKEMS!!
Gloucster White, Gloucester says...
6:38pm Thu 1 May 08
Bristolwhite, Bristol says...
6:39pm Thu 1 May 08
ding dang do, just outside the relegation zone says...
8:12pm Thu 1 May 08
'I'm in the mood for singing'
Come on you white men! Lets get behind our team!
We can sort the other rubbish out after!!
Camposcomb, westhoughton says...
8:21pm Thu 1 May 08
culchethwhite, Culcheth says...
8:22pm Thu 1 May 08
Pedro, Bolton says...
8:53pm Thu 1 May 08
Come on you Whites!!!
MICK, BOLTON says...
8:58pm Thu 1 May 08
For all we know he could be taking about whats happend at the accademy with the roumors about megson sacking the coaches.
To say sam failed at newcastle is a joke.
When he left if i remember right they where 10th hows that failing?
Pedro, Bolton says...
8:58pm Thu 1 May 08
Andy W, says...
9:04pm Thu 1 May 08
apple wrote:Well, partly because we had played 2 more games between January 1 in 2007 and the end of that season, and January 1st this year to date.
Andy W if we were in relegation form how come we amassed more points since January than we have under the ginger numpty since January this year. What form are we in now if we were in relegation form last year when we managed to qualify for Europe. Big Sam is entitliled to his opinion and can voice it when he likes as he has earned the right to do so.
Between Jan 07 and the end of the seasoon we had won 4 league games, drawn 5 and lost 8. This season since January, we have won 4 games, drawn 3 and lost 8. A win on saturday and we'll have amssed more points in the post-Christmas period this season than last season.
So that's why I said that we were in relegation form last season.
The facts since Big Sam left are obvious - he's unemployed and his reputation in the game has fallen. We are likely to be a Premier league team again next season.
Let's not forget that in 2004/05, we went 10 games and only picked up 3 points. Did we call for Big Sam to be sacked then? No! Megson's just been through a similar patch.
Andy W, says...
9:08pm Thu 1 May 08
MICK wrote:It isn't failing. But look at the difference a good board who backs their manager to the hilt makes. Gartside and Davies had faith in him.
Sam Allardyce will know more about whats happening behind the scenes at the wanderers than me,you and the BN so no matter if you love or hate him its his opinion and its up to him what he says about it.
For all we know he could be taking about whats happend at the accademy with the roumors about megson sacking the coaches.
To say sam failed at newcastle is a joke.
When he left if i remember right they where 10th hows that failing?
But in the eyes of football, Allardyce is now tarnished goods. Only a Premier team fighting relegation would consider him now.
Julie Moores, Bolton says...
9:11pm Thu 1 May 08
I dont think his reputation in football has suffered at all.
MICK, BOLTON says...
9:21pm Thu 1 May 08
Andy W wrote:I dont agree.
MICK wrote: Sam Allardyce will know more about whats happening behind the scenes at the wanderers than me,you and the BN so no matter if you love or hate him its his opinion and its up to him what he says about it. For all we know he could be taking about whats happend at the accademy with the roumors about megson sacking the coaches. To say sam failed at newcastle is a joke. When he left if i remember right they where 10th hows that failing?It isn't failing. But look at the difference a good board who backs their manager to the hilt makes. Gartside and Davies had faith in him. But in the eyes of football, Allardyce is now tarnished goods. Only a Premier team fighting relegation would consider him now.
From what was said at the time mike ashley and the newcastle fans where the one,s that other managers,pundits and fans of other clubs where sla99ing not sam.
digger, bolton says...
10:17pm Thu 1 May 08
............
Toby, Deane says...
10:38pm Thu 1 May 08
Andy W, says...
10:49pm Thu 1 May 08
Julie Moores wrote:Personally, I think John McGovern running a marathon to raise money to keep the club afloat probably tops anything Allardyce did. And at no stage have I lessened Sam's achievements at Bolton - just pointing out it was a team effort and he couldn't have done it without a huge amount of support from the board.
Very small minded of anyone to have a go at a man who did more for this club than any other manager in history.
I dont think his reputation in football has suffered at all.
Andy W, says...
10:50pm Thu 1 May 08
MICK wrote:Let's see if he's in the running for the City job in a few weeks. Don't think he will be, though this time last year, he was.
Andy W wrote:I dont agree.
MICK wrote: Sam Allardyce will know more about whats happening behind the scenes at the wanderers than me,you and the BN so no matter if you love or hate him its his opinion and its up to him what he says about it. For all we know he could be taking about whats happend at the accademy with the roumors about megson sacking the coaches. To say sam failed at newcastle is a joke. When he left if i remember right they where 10th hows that failing?It isn't failing. But look at the difference a good board who backs their manager to the hilt makes. Gartside and Davies had faith in him. But in the eyes of football, Allardyce is now tarnished goods. Only a Premier team fighting relegation would consider him now.
From what was said at the time mike ashley and the newcastle fans where the one,s that other managers,pundits and fans of other clubs where sla99ing not sam.
joannebk, bolton says...
10:57pm Thu 1 May 08
Clean slate, clear out...
Let's hope he has the dosh and the insight to do something constructive with it.
Make sure Al Habsi stays, for starters.
Pedro, Bolton says...
11:11pm Thu 1 May 08
Wanderers Through To MSC Final
Posted on: Thu 01 May 2008
BOLTON WANDERERS will face Manchester United in the final of the Manchester Senior Cup after beating Stockport County on penalties at Moss Lane.
The young Wanderers side edge out the Hatters 3-2 in the shootout after both sides ground out a scoreless stalemate during 90 minutes.
charlie, wigan says...
11:11pm Thu 1 May 08
Steve Battersby wrote:Spot on.
I have decided not to contribute further to this site after this posting. I have always tried to put my arguments in a positive and structured manner and to accept that other people will view each situation in different ways. Above, we have an equally well reasoned and logical posting from Andy W that clearly not everyone agrees with. I myself partly support his theory but do feel Allardyce would have emerged at some club to do what he did at The Reebok and therefore Gartside's contribution, though critical, was not necessarily pivotal to events in the past 8 years. To then read 'Deano's' one line response which is not only utter nonsense but also insulting in its content has convinced me that to indulge this site further is a waste of my valuable time. From hereon in I will send letters to the paper and take my chance on having them printed in the hard copy, where censorship thankfully still exists. Deano and others like him are fully entitled to their views but they should be expressed in a civil manner and show respect to those who try and think their way through issues. Let's all get to The Reebok on Saturday and help try and keep us in The Premier League. So this is au revoir but maybe not goodbye.
There is a culture on this site that if you do not follow the line of GARTSIDE OUT MEGSON OUT brigade you are somehow doing the club an injustice.
The pathetic name calling is ridiculous.
Just remember Sam was always good with self publicity, one of the reasons we liked him. I may not agree with all Andy W says but he deserves to be heard with respect and have his say.
We'll be there Saturday come what may....
MICK, BOLTON says...
11:45pm Thu 1 May 08
Andy W wrote:
MICK wrote:Let's see if he's in the running for the City job in a few weeks. Don't think he will be, though this time last year, he was.Andy W wrote:I dont agree. From what was said at the time mike ashley and the newcastle fans where the one,s that other managers,pundits and fans of other clubs where sla99ing not sam.MICK wrote: Sam Allardyce will know more about whats happening behind the scenes at the wanderers than me,you and the BN so no matter if you love or hate him its his opinion and its up to him what he says about it. For all we know he could be taking about whats happend at the accademy with the roumors about megson sacking the coaches. To say sam failed at newcastle is a joke. When he left if i remember right they where 10th hows that failing?It isn't failing. But look at the difference a good board who backs their manager to the hilt makes. Gartside and Davies had faith in him. But in the eyes of football, Allardyce is now tarnished goods. Only a Premier team fighting relegation would consider him now.
Betting has already opened up on his successor and not surprisingly, Scolari is favourite at 4/1. Others in the betting of interest include, Sam Allardyce at 8/1, Steve McClaren at 8/1, and Jose Mourinho also at 8/1.
From-
http://www.betting-d
irectory.com/sports-
betting-article2422.
html
Northern Star, Canada says...
1:01am Fri 2 May 08
O.M.G. did the club and local paper forget WE ARE 1 POINT AWAY FROM RELEGATION.
Maybe B.S.A. is trying to light a fire under the clubs and players **** in order to get the result we need(which is nothing less than a win).He is just stating his intensions before he retakes his club(clear out some of the less motivated members of this team).
L.O.L wishful thinking.
COME ON "U" WHITES,saturday is the season.
ad_bwfc, Essex says...
1:27am Fri 2 May 08
more to follow..............
in two weeks
ad_bwfc, Essex says...
1:30am Fri 2 May 08
ad_bwfc wrote:just realised my silly error. am a bit drunk. apologies to everyone it was a goaless draw.
who scored for our reserves in the game tonight because bolton websites reporting is as good as ever.. more to follow.............. in two weeks
got my tickets for chelsea. buzzin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
argietrotter, Buenos Aires says...
3:46am Fri 2 May 08
trotters1964, preston says...
7:53am Fri 2 May 08
argietrotter wrote:so you say you live in argentina, i suppose you are going to tell us you lived all your life in bolton but love it so much you emigrated half the way round the world because i'm getting a bit fed up of ex pats telling us how to run our club or people from other countries telling us what great fans they are, read our history and then you will believe in the legend of bsa, as for our footy if its that crap why dont you join your mates watching man utd or liverpool or this week it will be chelsea , as for borgetti, was a has been over here mate, way off premiership standard, at his peak he would have had a chance of making it, however if your judgement of boltons greatest manager since the 1950's (i assume you have record books in buenes aires) is based on half a dozen words by borgetti, then sadly you know nothing about football. if 4 top 8 finishes in a row are not proof of establishment then what is, self deluded, see megson, gartside and yourself. as for the comment you and your mates etc, i suppose youve been watching the bright attacking football played this season, however i believe we will stay up, if megson is in charge or remains in charge he will have to change his whole footballing ethos for you and your mates to not be embarrased to watch us, excellent grammar, spelling and english, as usual you are probably typing this in horwich. and before you chip in with your usual comments about 'negative' posts charlie, i'll be shouting louder than you on saturday, i can assure you of that. but if we go down all those 'give megson a chance' will be looking for a whole new series of excuses to back their tired old arguments why its not gartside,megson and davies fault.
BSA´s capacity for self-delusion appears to be boundless.Has he or all those clamouring for his return forgotten what the last six months of his reign were really like? The football was dire- I got to the point of hoping that my friends here in Argentina wouldn´t see us on TV - the substitutions were diabolical and I´ve lost count of the one goal leads we threw away by trying to defend them, the obsession with work-rate i.e ball-chasing made us look like a fit pub team, we were on relegation form.While I deplore what happened in Lisbon but it was FSA who started the practice of not trying to win Cup gams The foundations of the team were built on sand, we never replaced JayJay and the other ageing stars signed by FSA were always going to run out of steam one day. His supposed hands-on style was exposed in an interview I saw on ESPN with Borgetti, when they asked him how he got on with the manager he said he couldn´t say as he hadn´t had very much contact with him. FSA ran when the paper was coming off the cracks and failed at N´castle just as I thought he would.The idea that he left us as an established Premiership team is laughable, we had a couple of good seasons but our position was always going to be precarious, there are about five teams who are not going to be relegated,the rest are always in danger. FSA should shut his mouth,look for a job and prove he is a decent manager, something I seriously doubt.
Aidan, sheffield says...
2:26pm Fri 2 May 08
mick, bolton says...
3:52pm Fri 2 May 08
Andy W, says...
4:57pm Fri 2 May 08
Aidan wrote:Given the form that the club was in when he left I can't see how you can say we wouldn't be in this position if he was here.
All sam said was what we have been saying on this furum, all season. We wouldnt be in the position if he was here, so for me he is the one man who can condone the clubs poor decision making this season.
breezeblock, Manchester says...
7:46pm Fri 2 May 08
And Trotter, where in ANY record book does it mention Sam Allardyce? Because our name didn't get engraved onto any cup during his tenure and yet people keep talking about him being a record breaker, most successful, blah, blah, blah...so I'm wondering just where are these records that will show the success of BSA?
Just remember that Harry Redknapp is about to have more success than Sam in a couple of weeks time and Harry hates nutritionalists, psychologosts and ProZone! So without the fancy stuff Harry will actually BE in the record books because Pompey will be carved onto the FA Cup.
That puts it into perspective.
stevieg11, belmont rd says...
7:55pm Fri 2 May 08
Andy W, says...
8:55pm Fri 2 May 08
stevieg11 wrote:45 years. In that time, you'll have seen Ian Greaves side, the highs and the lows (Division Four and the like) and some recent highs. We now only have a club because Gartside and Davies have managed the finances well over the last few years. We were within a whisker of the banks pulling the rug from under our feet if Gartside had not asked Eddie Davies to underwrite the club. Those are the facts. We would now be supporters of nothing. No club and the first top flight club to go under.
I've heard some cr@p on here but Andy W, U take the biscuit.I've supported the Whites 4, 45 yrs & read BEN comments 4 yrs but U take the biscuit.No-one who has watched the Wanderers recently can agree with U.& that incls my 4 chidren!!
But what thanks do those guys get from the people on here? None.
Big Sam was part of a team, an important part, but not the be all and end all. And as I've said before, other clubs may well have sacked him and certain parts of our development. Don't forget that either. Remember the 80s? How many managers did we have in that decade?
breezeblock, Manchester says...
10:21pm Fri 2 May 08
steve, bolton says...
2:15pm Thu 1 May 08
It'll mean nothing to the players who are the only people who matter.