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FEW people in the game understand the animosity Wanderers fans feel for their Manchester United neighbours better than Ian Greaves.
Nevertheless, that did not stop signing two famous ex-Reds when he was building his promotion-winning side at Burnden Park.
It crossed his mind but, in the end, football was the over-riding factor, and both signings - Willie Morgan and Alan Gowling - would play key roles in getting the good times rolling again.
"I didn't need anybody telling me that Bolton fans hated United," Greaves recalls of the day in October 1974 when he took the reins after Jimmy Armfield left Burnden to manage Leeds.
He had been Armfield's assistant, knew the club well and the fans.
"I stood up giving a speech to a roomful of Bolton fans when this United thing' came up," he racalls. "I had to remind them that I was the only Manchester United man in the room and had actually played against Bolton in the Cup Final!
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"It never really crossed my mind again until I decided I was going to sign Willie Morgan from Burnley.
"I was driving over to sort things out when I thought Hell no! Willie was captain of United. Surely they'll let him play here, won't they?' They'd been alright with Dunny."
Former United left-back, Tony Dunne, a member of European Cup winning side of '68 joined Wanderers on a free transfer in 1973 and was well established as a regular.
"I decided to sign Willie, anyway, and he turned out to be a smashing signing," Greaves added. "There wasn't a problem. Willie was a great player and the fans took to him."
So he had no qualms then about signing Gowling - another former Old Trafford man - from Newcastle in the season Wanderers won the old Second Division title at the third attempt.
The following season all three former Reds played key roles as Greavesie's Wanderers - featuring the flamboyant Frank Worthington - famously did the "double" over United.
Posted by: bignut, bolton on 12:35pm Wed 30 Apr 08
These were great memories,thanks for reminding me,what an era..great team,great fans and great club...lets all get behind our great club and keep them up...COME ON YOU WHITES....
These were great memories,thanks for reminding me,what an era..great team,great fans and great club...lets all get behind our great club and keep them up...COME ON YOU WHITES....
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 1:42pm Wed 30 Apr 08
bwfc have,had a closer relationship,with united over the,years than most of the extremes,realize non more than,when big pockets was in,charge kiddo was never away at burden,and many atip was passed between fergie,and fat wallet,hence the crates of champagne.thats how it should be freindly rivalry,not deep seated hatred,bred from whithin,there personalitys...
bwfc have,had a closer relationship,with united over the,years than most of the extremes,realize non more than,when big pockets was in,charge kiddo was never away at burden,and many atip was passed between fergie,and fat wallet,hence the crates of champagne.thats how it should be freindly rivalry,not deep seated hatred,bred from whithin,there personalitys...
Yet another example of the fine relationship between the giants of Bolton Wanderers and Manchester united.
What a shame the morons who sing Munich songs can't have the same respect.
Don't get me wrong, I was supporting Barca last night, but I can't help but pine for a time when football was more about what happens on the pitch, and less about shouting obscenities at opposition fans, refs and stewards.
Yet another example of the fine relationship between the giants of Bolton Wanderers and Manchester united.
What a shame the morons who sing Munich songs can't have the same respect.
Don't get me wrong, I was supporting Barca last night, but I can't help but pine for a time when football was more about what happens on the pitch, and less about shouting obscenities at opposition fans, refs and stewards.
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began.
Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending.
Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too!
However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous
Lets see.
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began.
Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending.
Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too!
However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous
Posted by: kingbillspacked, bolton on 2:40pm Wed 30 Apr 08
when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending."
nothing much changes there then!
never knew ian greaves playeed for utd!!
when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending."
nothing much changes there then!
never knew ian greaves playeed for utd!!
Posted by: andy, THE POSH END OF BOLTON on 3:56pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Normid Nomad[/bold] wrote:
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began. Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending. Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too! However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous Lets see.[/quote] Normid if I remember Boltons crowds dropped heavily in the eighties and it was`nt till the early nineties that the crowds came back,that was due to good cup runs and promotions and so on.So you could say half of Bolton fans are glory hunters, would you not say?
Normid Nomad wrote:
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began. Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending. Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too! However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous Lets see.
Normid if I remember Boltons crowds dropped heavily in the eighties and it was`nt till the early nineties that the crowds came back,that was due to good cup runs and promotions and so on.So you could say half of Bolton fans are glory hunters, would you not say?
Andy in Daubhill wrote - [bold]Normid if I remember Boltons crowds dropped heavily in the eighties and it was`nt till the early nineties that the crowds came back,that was due to good cup runs and promotions and so on.So you could say half of Bolton fans are glory hunters, would you not say?[/bold]
Stepping back and taking a look at what you have said, I have to agree with you. However in real terms of Glory Hunting how many people have been spotted walking round Enfield or Devizes or Barrow or Falkirk wearing a Bolton Shirt, during the period that you have mentioned.
Andy in Daubhill wrote - Normid if I remember Boltons crowds dropped heavily in the eighties and it was`nt till the early nineties that the crowds came back,that was due to good cup runs and promotions and so on.So you could say half of Bolton fans are glory hunters, would you not say?
Stepping back and taking a look at what you have said, I have to agree with you. However in real terms of Glory Hunting how many people have been spotted walking round Enfield or Devizes or Barrow or Falkirk wearing a Bolton Shirt, during the period that you have mentioned.
Posted by: Dont_Tell_Him_Pike, Chorley on 4:55pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Good post, Normid Nomad. A few years ago I was introduced to Eamonn Holmes. He asked me where I was from and which team I supported. I replied that I was born and brought up in Bolton, and that I was a Wanderers fan. What did he do? He snarled and called me a b****** for singing "Munich songs" - something I have never done. Now this guy is a United fan. He lives in Belfast, works in London, and has no connection whatsoever with the city of Manchester. People like him are everywhere. How can they not be detested?
Good post, Normid Nomad. A few years ago I was introduced to Eamonn Holmes. He asked me where I was from and which team I supported. I replied that I was born and brought up in Bolton, and that I was a Wanderers fan. What did he do? He snarled and called me a b****** for singing "Munich songs" - something I have never done. Now this guy is a United fan. He lives in Belfast, works in London, and has no connection whatsoever with the city of Manchester. People like him are everywhere. How can they not be detested?
Posted by: the whistler, farnworth on 5:38pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[bold]Eamon Holmes[/bold] is everthing that is detested about glory hunting reds. No connection whatever just a talentless tv presenter who once worked in Manchester.
Eamon Holmes is everthing that is detested about glory hunting reds. No connection whatever just a talentless tv presenter who once worked in Manchester.
Posted by: fade2black, Somerset on 6:03pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Having moved down here when I was 6 I can tell you that my dad who is a teacher had BWFC team photos on his classroom wall every year and I did indeed wear (and still do) my shirts with pride.
I have always said that if you are a true football fan your team chooses you not the other way around, so for those who choose to support the winning team well, you are not football fans.
I can still remember going to the Freight Rover at wembley against Bristol City in the 80's when me and me dad went on the train with all the BC loonies with me dad desperately trying to hide my scarf whilst me being 14 and gobby waving it around! Mind you coming back wasnt much fun.
Having moved down here when I was 6 I can tell you that my dad who is a teacher had BWFC team photos on his classroom wall every year and I did indeed wear (and still do) my shirts with pride.
I have always said that if you are a true football fan your team chooses you not the other way around, so for those who choose to support the winning team well, you are not football fans.
I can still remember going to the Freight Rover at wembley against Bristol City in the 80's when me and me dad went on the train with all the BC loonies with me dad desperately trying to hide my scarf whilst me being 14 and gobby waving it around! Mind you coming back wasnt much fun.
Posted by: Trotter, Bolton on 6:12pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Normid Nomad[/bold] wrote:
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began. Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending. Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too! However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous Lets see.[/quote] Good post Normid - thanks for sharing that with us, memories are very similar to myself as well - Manchester United did stone the coach and I too was told by my father and also elder relatives.
[bold]Keep the Faith[/bold]
Normid Nomad wrote:
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began. Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending. Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too! However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous Lets see.
Good post Normid - thanks for sharing that with us, memories are very similar to myself as well - Manchester United did stone the coach and I too was told by my father and also elder relatives.
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 6:15pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Dont_Tell_Him_Pike[/bold] wrote:
Good post, Normid Nomad. A few years ago I was introduced to Eamonn Holmes. He asked me where I was from and which team I supported. I replied that I was born and brought up in Bolton, and that I was a Wanderers fan. What did he do? He snarled and called me a b****** for singing "Munich songs" - something I have never done. Now this guy is a United fan. He lives in Belfast, works in London, and has no connection whatsoever with the city of Manchester. People like him are everywhere. How can they not be detested?[/quote] were did georgie best orginate,from???
Dont_Tell_Him_Pike wrote:
Good post, Normid Nomad. A few years ago I was introduced to Eamonn Holmes. He asked me where I was from and which team I supported. I replied that I was born and brought up in Bolton, and that I was a Wanderers fan. What did he do? He snarled and called me a b****** for singing "Munich songs" - something I have never done. Now this guy is a United fan. He lives in Belfast, works in London, and has no connection whatsoever with the city of Manchester. People like him are everywhere. How can they not be detested?
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 6:26pm Wed 30 Apr 08
i think over the years,utd have had supporters latching on to players from,there area country,etc irish,people and scottish,alike follow them,bolton have fan base,after jay jay days,but the fact of the matter is your a big club arsenal,chelsea,man united,all citys by the way,or your medium?small bolton ,boro sunderland.stoke city
i think over the years,utd have had supporters latching on to players from,there area country,etc irish,people and scottish,alike follow them,bolton have fan base,after jay jay days,but the fact of the matter is your a big club arsenal,chelsea,man united,all citys by the way,or your medium?small bolton ,boro sunderland.stoke city
Posted by: parishner, bolton on 6:30pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Normid Nomad[/bold] wrote:
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began. Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending. Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too! However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous Lets see.[/quote] the storys of the germans,bombed are chippys,you move on,we live in a,whole new world,were cash is king and the man in the street,dont matter,support cowdenbeth,for all i care..
Normid Nomad wrote:
I seem to remember my Dad telling me that the real hatred started after the 58 cup final win. The whole country were rooting for United to win and many felt (including the London Press) that BWFC should have rolled over in that game and let United win on the grounds of compassion. After we won the cup - the Bolton Team returned to Bolton on the train to Manchester and then took a coach back to Bolton only for the Coach to be bricked and stoned (Note. Football Hoolies in the 50s). That according to my Dad and his brothers and other people of a similar age, that i have spoken too over the years, was when the hatred and animosity began. Further to that, when I was at school in Bolton in the 80s, you could count the Bolton fans on two hands in my school, everyone else was a Glory Hunting Red. Manc or Scouse take your pick, and what made me laugh was that when you asked them had they been to a Match, they would come up with all sorts of excuses for not attending. Thats why I cant stand United - Not because of their Team, Success or their History, but mainly because of the masses of Glory Hunting Armchair Reds and that goes for the Scousers and Chelski's too! However Iam sure Le Roi will completely disagree with my comments and tell me that this story is rubbish, and that it is us Bolton Fans who are ignorant and jealous Lets see.
the storys of the germans,bombed are chippys,you move on,we live in a,whole new world,were cash is king and the man in the street,dont matter,support cowdenbeth,for all i care..
Posted by: Dont_Tell_Him_Pike, Chorley on 7:14pm Wed 30 Apr 08
[quote][bold]parishner[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Dont_Tell_Him_Pike[/bold] wrote: Good post, Normid Nomad. A few years ago I was introduced to Eamonn Holmes. He asked me where I was from and which team I supported. I replied that I was born and brought up in Bolton, and that I was a Wanderers fan. What did he do? He snarled and called me a b****** for singing "Munich songs" - something I have never done. Now this guy is a United fan. He lives in Belfast, works in London, and has no connection whatsoever with the city of Manchester. People like him are everywhere. How can they not be detested?[/quote] were did georgie best orginate,from???[/quote] Parishner, George Best originated from Belfast, and then spent 10 years earning his living in Manchester, as a United player. I don't have a problem with that, but read my post again and tell me how Holmes is qualified to call Bolton fans nasty names.
parishner wrote:
Dont_Tell_Him_Pike wrote: Good post, Normid Nomad. A few years ago I was introduced to Eamonn Holmes. He asked me where I was from and which team I supported. I replied that I was born and brought up in Bolton, and that I was a Wanderers fan. What did he do? He snarled and called me a b****** for singing "Munich songs" - something I have never done. Now this guy is a United fan. He lives in Belfast, works in London, and has no connection whatsoever with the city of Manchester. People like him are everywhere. How can they not be detested?
were did georgie best orginate,from???
Parishner, George Best originated from Belfast, and then spent 10 years earning his living in Manchester, as a United player. I don't have a problem with that, but read my post again and tell me how Holmes is qualified to call Bolton fans nasty names.
The coach did get ambushed by a load of kids in Salford on the Bolton Road. They threw mud and a few stones.
It wasn't any organised mayhem.
Time to move on.....
The coach did get ambushed by a load of kids in Salford on the Bolton Road. They threw mud and a few stones.
It wasn't any organised mayhem.
Posted by: charliecd001, Bolton on 10:33pm Wed 30 Apr 08
Did anybody hear Chris Moyles this morning he played a tape of fans reactions to Salford Uniteds result not a manc accent to be heard.
Even Citeh fans I work with say they are playing away at Salford in the old trafford derby.
Born in Bolton Bread In Bolton come on Bolton!!
Did anybody hear Chris Moyles this morning he played a tape of fans reactions to Salford Uniteds result not a manc accent to be heard.
Even Citeh fans I work with say they are playing away at Salford in the old trafford derby.
Born in Bolton Bread In Bolton come on Bolton!!
Posted by: Camposcomb, westhoughton on 12:40pm Thu 1 May 08
Beats me how Man Utd can use the name UNITED when clearly Manchester is NOT united and most support City..Anyway its well known that the busiest road after a Utd home game is the M1..For what its worth I know a so called Utd fan who doesnt even know the way to that big hole n Stretford
Beats me how Man Utd can use the name UNITED when clearly Manchester is NOT united and most support City..Anyway its well known that the busiest road after a Utd home game is the M1..For what its worth I know a so called Utd fan who doesnt even know the way to that big hole n Stretford
Posted by: Camposcomb, westhoughton on 12:41pm Thu 1 May 08
[quote][bold]Le Roi[/bold] wrote:
Very odd because Old Trafford is in Trafford, not Salford. And Chris Moyles is a buffoon along with his listening audience.[/quote] So NOT in Manchester then!!
Le Roi wrote:
Very odd because Old Trafford is in Trafford, not Salford. And Chris Moyles is a buffoon along with his listening audience.
No Manchester United is not in Manchester.
Does it fecking matter ?
How stupid are you ?
United is closer to Albert Square than the Reebok is to Bolton town centre.
No Manchester United is not in Manchester.
Does it fecking matter ?
How stupid are you ?
United is closer to Albert Square than the Reebok is to Bolton town centre.
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