Mixed reaction to Bolton Wanderers' new elephant logo

The Bolton News: Bolton Wanderers' new "supera moras" elephant design Bolton Wanderers' new "supera moras" elephant design

AN elephant complete with the town’s “supera moras” motto will feature on Bolton Wanderers’ new kit next season — after an absence of more than 40 years.

The club has produced a new cartoon elephant logo that will feature somewhere on the Whites' new shirt, but it will not replace the BWFC badge.

The design features Bolton’s Latin motto, which is translated as “overcome delays”.

New kit designer Macron, which will also be sponsoring the stadium next season, has been working to include the elephant on next season’s shirts.

Richard Gough, head of commercial affairs for Wanderers, said: “When we looked at the elephant design from down the years, the handmade nature of the badges from that era meant there were no two alike.

“Without a single reference point, we had the opportunity to update the design for the 21st century in such a format to be trademarked as our own and for it to be more easily reproduced in print and on fabrics.”

The elephant previously featured on the Bolton Wanderers kits within the club’s official crest. The motto was originally used on the Bolton Wanderers badge during in the 1920s, when the club won the FA Cup three times in six years, including the first final at Wembley in 1923.

There was a mixed reaction on Facebook and Twitter, with some fans criticising the cartoon-like design, while others praised the club for restoring some tradition.

A poll on The Bolton News website showed 52 per cent of readers liked the new logo while 48 per cent did not.

Conservative councillor and supporter Andy Morgan said: “I think it contradicts a lot of what the manager has been saying about moving forward with young players and clearing out some of the old guard.

“I am all for marking the history of the club, but I just feel this is the wrong message and an elephant is not the most dynamic of animals.”

Whites supporter Jonny Lung, aged 19, from Castle Street, said: “I am happy with the motto, but the elephant just looks random and there is no chance it will be inspiring any of the players.”

Amedeo Iossa, for Macron, said: “We are proud the reintroduction of such an iconic symbol for the club has coincided with the beginning of our new partnership.”

The club said full details of the new kit would be announced in due course.

 

We asked shoppers in Bolton town centre what they thought of the new logo

Billy Foster, aged 17, of Castle Street, The Haulgh

"It looks more like the logo for a pub than something for a football team. The colours are horrible."

David Davies, aged 66, of Little Hulton

"The design is a little bit childish — it could have been done much more professionally."

James Russell, aged 37, Bolton

"I’m not a Bolton fan but I can safely say I wouldn’t have that logo on my team’s kit — keep to what you have got at the moment because that is not going to inspire anyone."

Comments (27)

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11:01am Wed 7 May 14

goldie47 says...

that solves the problem of finding a new home for the newport st elephants....can go right outside the reebok now
that solves the problem of finding a new home for the newport st elephants....can go right outside the reebok now goldie47
  • Score: 18

11:26am Wed 7 May 14

Terry McC says...

looks like its been done by an 11 year old old one was much nicer http://www.wanderers
ways.com/forum/topic
/76033-1951-bolton-b
adge/
looks like its been done by an 11 year old old one was much nicer http://www.wanderers ways.com/forum/topic /76033-1951-bolton-b adge/ Terry McC
  • Score: 7

12:29pm Wed 7 May 14

Beyond News Forum says...

I think it will look a little odd. Maybe the logo will be incorporated on top of the current BWFC badge.

http://articlechase.
com/bwfc_elephant_lo
go_2014_2015
I think it will look a little odd. Maybe the logo will be incorporated on top of the current BWFC badge. http://articlechase. com/bwfc_elephant_lo go_2014_2015 Beyond News Forum
  • Score: 1

12:43pm Wed 7 May 14

Liamdog says...

Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager. Liamdog
  • Score: -7

12:45pm Wed 7 May 14

waynagain says...

looks like something you might see in Toys R Us. If they are going to use the 'elephant badge', then use the SAME one that used to be on the shirt.
looks like something you might see in Toys R Us. If they are going to use the 'elephant badge', then use the SAME one that used to be on the shirt. waynagain
  • Score: 7

12:56pm Wed 7 May 14

Bob Shaftoe says...

I hope they've got permission from the council for this, in the early 70's the then council banned the club from using the town crest, elephants n all.
I remember it well (elephants never forget)
I hope they've got permission from the council for this, in the early 70's the then council banned the club from using the town crest, elephants n all. I remember it well (elephants never forget) Bob Shaftoe
  • Score: 17

12:58pm Wed 7 May 14

JustaBloke2000 says...

Nice idea, badly executed by what looks like someone who is only just getting to grips with Adobe Illustrator... Maybe they gave it to the work experience kid to do to keep them busy?
Nice idea, badly executed by what looks like someone who is only just getting to grips with Adobe Illustrator... Maybe they gave it to the work experience kid to do to keep them busy? JustaBloke2000
  • Score: 9

1:06pm Wed 7 May 14

Beyond News Forum says...

Overcome Delays!

M60 through to A666 on match day.

BWFC Car Park

Middlebrook

The irony!
Overcome Delays! M60 through to A666 on match day. BWFC Car Park Middlebrook The irony! Beyond News Forum
  • Score: 5

1:20pm Wed 7 May 14

hopkinsonthegod says...

It is what is in the shirt not what is on it
It is what is in the shirt not what is on it hopkinsonthegod
  • Score: -2

1:21pm Wed 7 May 14

David_J says...

In my view its just a marketing ploy alongside macron to get us to buy the new shirts at an extortionate price. Don't like the logo but we'll see where they put it. Glad its not replacing the crest.

One things for sure, I won't be buying a shirt until they sell them for a tenner at the end of the season!
In my view its just a marketing ploy alongside macron to get us to buy the new shirts at an extortionate price. Don't like the logo but we'll see where they put it. Glad its not replacing the crest. One things for sure, I won't be buying a shirt until they sell them for a tenner at the end of the season! David_J
  • Score: 0

1:29pm Wed 7 May 14

David_J says...

Liamdog wrote:
Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season!
[quote][p][bold]Liamdog[/bold] wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.[/p][/quote]Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season! David_J
  • Score: 5

1:34pm Wed 7 May 14

Beyond News Forum says...

David_J wrote:
In my view its just a marketing ploy alongside macron to get us to buy the new shirts at an extortionate price. Don't like the logo but we'll see where they put it. Glad its not replacing the crest.

One things for sure, I won't be buying a shirt until they sell them for a tenner at the end of the season!
Well a more reasonable price would be better for all.

At half the price they would sell more and have more profit. Speculate to accumulate. Saddly Bolton does not have the huge fan base of Prawn Butty eaters that the likes of Man United do and so the price of a shirt/kit should reflect.

Selling 25k of full kits at £40.00 is better than selling 10k of full kits at £70.00.

Option 1: £700,000
Option 2: £1,000,000
[quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: In my view its just a marketing ploy alongside macron to get us to buy the new shirts at an extortionate price. Don't like the logo but we'll see where they put it. Glad its not replacing the crest. One things for sure, I won't be buying a shirt until they sell them for a tenner at the end of the season![/p][/quote]Well a more reasonable price would be better for all. At half the price they would sell more and have more profit. Speculate to accumulate. Saddly Bolton does not have the huge fan base of Prawn Butty eaters that the likes of Man United do and so the price of a shirt/kit should reflect. Selling 25k of full kits at £40.00 is better than selling 10k of full kits at £70.00. Option 1: £700,000 Option 2: £1,000,000 Beyond News Forum
  • Score: 3

1:46pm Wed 7 May 14

Beyond News Forum says...

David_J wrote:
Liamdog wrote:
Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season!
And turn up to the stadium.

I have never understood fans that bemoan the team, the manager and the finances to get the team moving forwards and to buy better players yet do not turn up to a game.

Having said that, if the club lowered the price of tickets I am pretty sure the stadium would have more people inside. Again this is speculating to accumulate.

£26.00 per ticket average I think currently will see an average of 15,000 in the ground = £390,000

£20.00 per ticket would be probably see 20,000 average in the ground = £400,000 I know this isn't much more in revenue but the support would be better and the concourses would generate more revenue.

Now let's go one further and say the tickets go to £17.00 and the stadium fills up with an average of 25,000 = £425,000 and the concourses make more revenue also.

I know we have to factor in Season Tickets and kids, but either way the method is there in the madness, plus the club shop will see more people buy BWFC products.

Just a few ideas there... please people support your club.
[quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Liamdog[/bold] wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.[/p][/quote]Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season![/p][/quote]And turn up to the stadium. I have never understood fans that bemoan the team, the manager and the finances to get the team moving forwards and to buy better players yet do not turn up to a game. Having said that, if the club lowered the price of tickets I am pretty sure the stadium would have more people inside. Again this is speculating to accumulate. £26.00 per ticket average I think currently will see an average of 15,000 in the ground = £390,000 £20.00 per ticket would be probably see 20,000 average in the ground = £400,000 I know this isn't much more in revenue but the support would be better and the concourses would generate more revenue. Now let's go one further and say the tickets go to £17.00 and the stadium fills up with an average of 25,000 = £425,000 and the concourses make more revenue also. I know we have to factor in Season Tickets and kids, but either way the method is there in the madness, plus the club shop will see more people buy BWFC products. Just a few ideas there... please people support your club. Beyond News Forum
  • Score: 12

2:22pm Wed 7 May 14

boltonnut says...

If the Wanderers want to be taken seriously then have a "proper" elephant on their shirts not a cartoon character.Boltons' original symbol (or logo) defines strength, dignity and pride.The logo in the above picture is a bit of a p1$$ take waiting to happen.
If the Wanderers want to be taken seriously then have a "proper" elephant on their shirts not a cartoon character.Boltons' original symbol (or logo) defines strength, dignity and pride.The logo in the above picture is a bit of a p1$$ take waiting to happen. boltonnut
  • Score: 8

3:38pm Wed 7 May 14

Liamdog says...

David_J wrote:
Liamdog wrote:
Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season!
Yes it was below the belt but I couldn't resist ! Not sure if it was the pessimist in me or the years of past experience .
Hopefully I'm proved wrong at the end of next season when well have larger crowds be back in the premiership or playoffs and il be the first one to hold my hand up. Cartoon elephant badge or not.
[quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Liamdog[/bold] wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.[/p][/quote]Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season![/p][/quote]Yes it was below the belt but I couldn't resist ! Not sure if it was the pessimist in me or the years of past experience . Hopefully I'm proved wrong at the end of next season when well have larger crowds be back in the premiership or playoffs and il be the first one to hold my hand up. Cartoon elephant badge or not. Liamdog
  • Score: 8

6:38pm Wed 7 May 14

Reebok Al says...

I've nothing against an elephant, a castle or the motto, but like other people have said, let's have a proper elephant, not a caricature of one. This one, with its gaudy colours, looks like it was drawn in the classroom of a primary school and would only invite ridicule from fans of other clubs.
I hope the person responsible for this will not be given the task of designing our new away kit. The last one was bad enough.
I've nothing against an elephant, a castle or the motto, but like other people have said, let's have a proper elephant, not a caricature of one. This one, with its gaudy colours, looks like it was drawn in the classroom of a primary school and would only invite ridicule from fans of other clubs. I hope the person responsible for this will not be given the task of designing our new away kit. The last one was bad enough. Reebok Al
  • Score: 3

8:04pm Wed 7 May 14

crazyoldme says...

Would prefare the old elephant plus it would look 200% better if it was just above the badge.
Would prefare the old elephant plus it would look 200% better if it was just above the badge. crazyoldme
  • Score: 2

8:32pm Wed 7 May 14

dougie kay says...

what a fuss, you have the symbolic elephant, along with the town motto. what you have not got is ,A local football team of English players, let alone a team of local talent
what a fuss, you have the symbolic elephant, along with the town motto. what you have not got is ,A local football team of English players, let alone a team of local talent dougie kay
  • Score: -3

8:50pm Wed 7 May 14

Rememberscarborough says...

You could have the perfect emblem and still others would complain why it was on the shirts of a team that, most definitely, is not perfect. I'd suggest us Wanderers fans have far bigger concerns than a badge.
You could have the perfect emblem and still others would complain why it was on the shirts of a team that, most definitely, is not perfect. I'd suggest us Wanderers fans have far bigger concerns than a badge. Rememberscarborough
  • Score: -1

9:21pm Wed 7 May 14

asptec says...

dougie kay wrote:
what a fuss, you have the symbolic elephant, along with the town motto. what you have not got is ,A local football team of English players, let alone a team of local talent
We have some locl taent so stop moaning!
[quote][p][bold]dougie kay[/bold] wrote: what a fuss, you have the symbolic elephant, along with the town motto. what you have not got is ,A local football team of English players, let alone a team of local talent[/p][/quote]We have some locl taent so stop moaning! asptec
  • Score: 2

2:03am Thu 8 May 14

waynagain says...

David_J wrote:
Liamdog wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season!
That would be the manager who takes a shot at players he just released because they were 'overpaid underperformers'. If he wants to see some one at the club who is also an 'overpaid underperformer', tell him to look in the mirror - same with Gartside.
[quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Liamdog[/bold] wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.[/p][/quote]Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season![/p][/quote]That would be the manager who takes a shot at players he just released because they were 'overpaid underperformers'. If he wants to see some one at the club who is also an 'overpaid underperformer', tell him to look in the mirror - same with Gartside. waynagain
  • Score: 1

9:17am Thu 8 May 14

LOR1910 says...

Personally I think it looks great. Would be smart at the very top of the shirt on the back, just on the collar. Does it really matter if it's a super serious high definition elephant or a slightly 'cartoony' one?? The point is, in the last two seasons the club has recognised it's history - a massive step for a club who has failed miserably at this in the past. It might be a PR stunt so we all love Macron a little bit more but you know what... I do! Let's hope we get a Napoli style camo away kit!!
Personally I think it looks great. Would be smart at the very top of the shirt on the back, just on the collar. Does it really matter if it's a super serious high definition elephant or a slightly 'cartoony' one?? The point is, in the last two seasons the club has recognised it's history - a massive step for a club who has failed miserably at this in the past. It might be a PR stunt so we all love Macron a little bit more but you know what... I do! Let's hope we get a Napoli style camo away kit!! LOR1910
  • Score: 1

9:27am Thu 8 May 14

David_J says...

waynagain wrote:
David_J wrote:
Liamdog wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season!
That would be the manager who takes a shot at players he just released because they were 'overpaid underperformers'. If he wants to see some one at the club who is also an 'overpaid underperformer', tell him to look in the mirror - same with Gartside.
Some people will never get behind the club, team and manager unfortunately. In this instance Dougie was right to be frank and explain why he released players. We want players who want to play for BWFC not those who are happy to take their wages and sit on the bench and not care about the club. They should have passion and dedication for the club. They are extremely highly paid individuals and give something back to the club for taking their wages. Some of these players didn't even have the right attitude to be credited with a seat on the bench which is diabolical. They think they are better than the club and are living in the premiership past thinking they are better than they are. Freeing up 60k per week by releasing these players was the right move for BW. Zat Knight was the unlucky one for me who always fought for the club and I'm sure that this was the most difficult decision Dougie had to make. Support you club and that includes backing the players and manager if you want BWFC to progress!!
[quote][p][bold]waynagain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Liamdog[/bold] wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.[/p][/quote]Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season![/p][/quote]That would be the manager who takes a shot at players he just released because they were 'overpaid underperformers'. If he wants to see some one at the club who is also an 'overpaid underperformer', tell him to look in the mirror - same with Gartside.[/p][/quote]Some people will never get behind the club, team and manager unfortunately. In this instance Dougie was right to be frank and explain why he released players. We want players who want to play for BWFC not those who are happy to take their wages and sit on the bench and not care about the club. They should have passion and dedication for the club. They are extremely highly paid individuals and give something back to the club for taking their wages. Some of these players didn't even have the right attitude to be credited with a seat on the bench which is diabolical. They think they are better than the club and are living in the premiership past thinking they are better than they are. Freeing up 60k per week by releasing these players was the right move for BW. Zat Knight was the unlucky one for me who always fought for the club and I'm sure that this was the most difficult decision Dougie had to make. Support you club and that includes backing the players and manager if you want BWFC to progress!! David_J
  • Score: 3

10:52am Thu 8 May 14

AndyMorton says...

Wtf is that? Hahaha see what happens when your on drugs
Wtf is that? Hahaha see what happens when your on drugs AndyMorton
  • Score: 0

1:25pm Thu 8 May 14

waynagain says...

David_J wrote:
waynagain wrote:
David_J wrote:
Liamdog wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.
Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season!
That would be the manager who takes a shot at players he just released because they were 'overpaid underperformers'. If he wants to see some one at the club who is also an 'overpaid underperformer', tell him to look in the mirror - same with Gartside.
Some people will never get behind the club, team and manager unfortunately. In this instance Dougie was right to be frank and explain why he released players. We want players who want to play for BWFC not those who are happy to take their wages and sit on the bench and not care about the club. They should have passion and dedication for the club. They are extremely highly paid individuals and give something back to the club for taking their wages. Some of these players didn't even have the right attitude to be credited with a seat on the bench which is diabolical. They think they are better than the club and are living in the premiership past thinking they are better than they are. Freeing up 60k per week by releasing these players was the right move for BW. Zat Knight was the unlucky one for me who always fought for the club and I'm sure that this was the most difficult decision Dougie had to make. Support you club and that includes backing the players and manager if you want BWFC to progress!!
I've been a Bolton supporter for over 60 years. I was a season ticket holder for almost 50 years - and still bought a season ticket for 20 years even though I live 3500 miles from Bolton. Megson and Gartside were the reason I stopped buying a season ticket. Things have not got any better since the fans got rid of Megson. Now we have Gartside's ventriloquist dummy claiming to be a football manager when week after week he proves he's out of his depth. As a lifelong Bolton supporter I always want Bolton to 'progress', but with the current administration it is not going to happen. Even the new reduced revenue from putting Macron on the front of the stadium will barely cover Gartside and Freedman's wages. Freedman talks about freeing up money, but doesn't talk about money he wastes. He brought in a player who was on 20,000 a week on loan and then paid him that wage for his first 2 weeks to sit on the bench. BWFC will always be my team, but I reserve the right to complain when someone is trying to sell me a mediocre product. Time for a change at the top is long ovedue at Bolton and until that happens there will be little or no progress.
[quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]waynagain[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]David_J[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Liamdog[/bold] wrote: Hardly inspiring and forward thinking with a motto of overcome delays. Then again it fits in with the delay of signing a decent and capable manager.[/p][/quote]Thats below the belt. Support your manager! He WILL get it right this season. Its a transitional period and we need to give him time. Its about time all the fans backed Dougie for a change. Lets all get behind him and the team next season![/p][/quote]That would be the manager who takes a shot at players he just released because they were 'overpaid underperformers'. If he wants to see some one at the club who is also an 'overpaid underperformer', tell him to look in the mirror - same with Gartside.[/p][/quote]Some people will never get behind the club, team and manager unfortunately. In this instance Dougie was right to be frank and explain why he released players. We want players who want to play for BWFC not those who are happy to take their wages and sit on the bench and not care about the club. They should have passion and dedication for the club. They are extremely highly paid individuals and give something back to the club for taking their wages. Some of these players didn't even have the right attitude to be credited with a seat on the bench which is diabolical. They think they are better than the club and are living in the premiership past thinking they are better than they are. Freeing up 60k per week by releasing these players was the right move for BW. Zat Knight was the unlucky one for me who always fought for the club and I'm sure that this was the most difficult decision Dougie had to make. Support you club and that includes backing the players and manager if you want BWFC to progress!![/p][/quote]I've been a Bolton supporter for over 60 years. I was a season ticket holder for almost 50 years - and still bought a season ticket for 20 years even though I live 3500 miles from Bolton. Megson and Gartside were the reason I stopped buying a season ticket. Things have not got any better since the fans got rid of Megson. Now we have Gartside's ventriloquist dummy claiming to be a football manager when week after week he proves he's out of his depth. As a lifelong Bolton supporter I always want Bolton to 'progress', but with the current administration it is not going to happen. Even the new reduced revenue from putting Macron on the front of the stadium will barely cover Gartside and Freedman's wages. Freedman talks about freeing up money, but doesn't talk about money he wastes. He brought in a player who was on 20,000 a week on loan and then paid him that wage for his first 2 weeks to sit on the bench. BWFC will always be my team, but I reserve the right to complain when someone is trying to sell me a mediocre product. Time for a change at the top is long ovedue at Bolton and until that happens there will be little or no progress. waynagain
  • Score: 2

1:57pm Thu 8 May 14

waterbottle says...

dougie kay wrote:
what a fuss, you have the symbolic elephant, along with the town motto. what you have not got is ,A local football team of English players, let alone a team of local talent
Because of the homegrown talent we are playing in the championship
[quote][p][bold]dougie kay[/bold] wrote: what a fuss, you have the symbolic elephant, along with the town motto. what you have not got is ,A local football team of English players, let alone a team of local talent[/p][/quote]Because of the homegrown talent we are playing in the championship waterbottle
  • Score: -2

9:28pm Sat 10 May 14

Riggermortis says...

More of same dross next year with Leicester and mill wall cast offs and more absent fans. Going in one direction since big Sam was betrayed
More of same dross next year with Leicester and mill wall cast offs and more absent fans. Going in one direction since big Sam was betrayed Riggermortis
  • Score: -1

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